Whoa! Karma can be a bi**h to the person whose Wheaties were pi**ed in and felt the need to diss people using H/C placards. God forbid that person ever need to use one.

We carry one in our car for my mother-in-law; when I'm driving, I'll let her and my wife out at the front door and drive to the "lower 40" to park. When my wife (with a new knee) drives her Mom somewhere, they will use the placard.

I'm usually pretty low-key about most things, but if I see a person parking in a H/C space with no license or placard, I'll call them out; that is one of my few pet peeves.

No, just one. Generally about a foot across and white.

In the style of a current presidential candidate, I apologize that you did not understand me. If you must know, due to the nature and location of my surgery, the impact of each step is painful from my posterior cervical region down my left arm. NY criteria includes the inability to walk 200 feet without stopping FOR ANY REASON, I'm only up to 20-25 feet
Of course I have no intention of getting a handicapped placard, that was pure hyperbole. The point of my post was that no one, not even me, can tell if a person meets criteria form a distant glance, so why assume they are a fraud? I have found most requests for a handicapped parking permit are legitimate, and most that are not are just running it up the flagpole to see if I salute it. They don't get one anyway. Even though I tend to lean conservative, I would rather waste a few dollars on the food stamp frauds than have a child go hungry, just as I would rather someone scam a handicapped permit than have some 90 year old break a hip walking too far.
The alternative to the current system is to take the permission out of the hands of the patient's personal physician and give it to some government bureaucrat with 40,000 pages of regulation to follow. This would cost billions, delay the process by months, and probably be associated with a measurable body count. No thank you.
Now here's a food for thought question: If you have an identical house to your neighbor and he is paying less property tax than you, do you go to the assessor's office and argue why your tax should be less based on the value of YOUR property, or do you complain that your neighbor is paying less than you? No criticism or offense intended, but it does go to the point of worrying about what the other guy is getting.

You haven't seen TV water volleyball at Savannah! They use about 20 balls. There is NO time wasted chasing balls.

:bowdown: :bowdown:

Good for you. That's the way it should be used. I have witnessed very young people with their much older, probably grandmother, pull granny's car into a handicap spot. jump out and run into the store to get something to drink, and come out and drive off. Grandma never got out of the car. Total abuse; and grandma allowed it.

The poster doesn't begrudge you anything. If you are legitimately using a HC placard, good for you. He was referring to the frauds, and there are many. Your last sentence reeks of insincerity.

First of all anyone can use the colony plaza to shop or go to eat. To say it was a villager is totally prejudice. Second the handicap cards can easily be replaced at the place where you get it. The motor V. tells you that you need to place the card so it is hard to steal. Which means in a cart you need to tape it to the windshield. Mine was stollen from the same shopping center because I hung it from the mirror, so has many others. I just went over to the motor V and got another from the outside window. Took five minutes. Then taped it to the windshield.
Lowlife steals placard sure they do. Happens in every place, in and out of the villages. Not saying it is ok to steal. Just saying you and I and many others made it very easy.

I was absolutely sincere. I wouldn't wish a life of difficulty on anyone. I don't use a placard. It is my wife's Judge not lest ye be judged.

Or it could have been someone that saw big guy drive up, get out, and walk in without the slightest indication of a serious infirmity. Before anyone demands my hanging in the town square, I am not saying big guy isn't legitimately HC. But, whether you want to believe it or not, there is a ton of fraud going on with HC placards just as in SS disability claims, and people are getting ****ed that they have to park out in the north 40 while watching the ever shrinking open spaces being converted to the ever increasing HC spaces.

If you were absolutely sincere, then I will accept that. But you are misreading these comments and getting all upset for the wrong reasons. They are NOT directed at legitimate users. Have you never gone to Walmart during holiday shopping season, and could not find a HC spot, only to see some guy come out looking perfectly healthy, load up his truck with merchandise and hop into his truck, all done with the agility of a perfectly healthy appearing man? I guess there could be some hidden, legitimate reason why he has that placard. But I doubt it.

Is there SOME fraud---of course. Could it be worse in Florida, possibly.
But how many handicapped permit applications have you personally evaluated and signed? I'll bet zero, whereas I've done many hundreds. Just my personal experience, but the overwhelming majority of requests are legitimate. Certainly the person who appears to walk or load a vehicle without difficulty raises the suspicion level, but consider if they would perform that well after walking 200+ feet instead of 20. Do they have COPD with an FEV1 of 600 cc?--they certainly would look A LOT different at 200 feet than 20. Are they on medical treatment for a subcritical LAD stenosis of 72% with stable angina pectoris at 100 feet of level walking? An observer really is not in a position to judge the validity of the person's disability, that EXACTLY why a physician must sign the form. And the suggestion that it would be OK to steal a placard because THE THIEF decides it is fraudulent is beyond belief. Why not just shoot someone because the gun owner decides he is a terrorist?

I'm one of those people that I always get the look when I park in handicap. Maybe going in I look all healthy. I walk into the store get a couple of things then it might take everything I have to get back to my car and I am struggling.
But even then, you may or may not know it.
People have no idea what is going on with anyone by looking at them.
Everyone is so quick to judge people on looks. You don't always have a clue !!!
Some people are better off worrying about themselves instead of worrying about others. Just sayin' !!

I've read this Thread with somewhat disbelief and wonderment. The "anger" we seem to have in a possible "illegal HP" using a handicap placard is beyond my comprehension. Don't we have other more serious concerns? Just a random thought.........

Really! I feel sorry for the people with legit but not obvious handicaps, having to feign a limp so they don't get daggers stared through them.:ohdear:

The point is THEY DON'T HAVE TO, they have a legitimate placard. Personally, I would go right up to the dagger thrower and offer to trade them the placard for the disability, see how many takers there are then. What's the old proverb?--"try walking in my shoes"

I was being sarcastic. Can you actually imagine someone "calling" you on parking in a handicap spot if you have a proper sticker but not an obvious disability? I would respond the same way you would.

Stealing the placard was a horrible thing to do. As for people judging whether anyone truly is "handicapped" or not needs to think again. I have one and have it because I have a 'invisible' disease. To look at me, I look fine BUT I have issues with walking due to rheumatoid arthritis and a bad back. The RA has affected my feet/ankles and hips. Walk in the shoes of someone first, then judge. I don't think doctors will sign the sheet needed unless they too think it's needed.

:mademyday:

Thank you, my point from the beginning

in the words of my favorite pres candidate....this thread is 'stupid'......no physician is going to sign a handicap app unless its is necessary or warranted....so these folks so worried should probably worry about the dog poop and coyotes.

Which is why a casual observer should not hold themselves out as having the expertise to make clinical judgments. Then someone wants to steal it, acting as judge, jury and executioner----INSANE. Maybe they learned how to spot a disability "on the internet" , like so many think they can.

I think that part of the skepticism that people have over the use of handicap parking is not the concern that some physician has inappropriately diagnosed a patient, but rather that the handicap parking is being used by someone other than the handicapped individual.

For instance, a car with a handicap license plate is driven to a parking lot by the spouse/child/friend of the handicapped person and is parked in a handicap parking space. The actual handicapped person is not even in the car, or remains in the car while an able-bodied person goes to shop. This abuse of the system is hard to police.

But since it's pretty much agreed that you can't tell a handicap just by looking, you have no way of knowing if that's even happening. And how would you even know that a person in the car is holding the spot for a non handicapped person to go shopping?

Do some people look for ways to get irritated or feel cheated?

I am sorry if my post irritated you. That was certainly not my intent. I never stated that I was irritated or felt cheated. I did state that I felt that was why some people felt skeptical. I am no position to know who is or is not handicapped.

Years ago, I was on a business trip and a group went out to dinner. One of the people had driven there, so she drove us to the restaurant. When we got to the restaurant she pulled into a handicap parking space. Her car had a handicap license plate because her husband, who was not in the vehicle at the time, was confined to a wheelchair. When this happened, it did not make me feel cheated, it made me upset that someone who was handicapped may have not been able to park in a handicap space because of her action.

Again, my apologies for upsetting you or anyone else who read my previous post.

You didn't upset me. I meant people in general, not you necessarily. Your personal experience gives you a reason to be upset. I'm sure there are people who take advantage, but who is to know which ones they are. That was the point I was trying to make.

I have an acquaintance who I swear looks for all life's injustices to be irritated about. I just want to tell her to try to ignore as much as she can.

I think my point was made. Earlier you said you would not give me a HC placard because my feet hurt when I walk. Now someone says they're feet hurt when they walk, and you imply you would have given them a placard. I have some arthritis in my back. Sometimes it hurts when I walk, or play golf. Do you think I could get a placard?

Riiight. And no physician is going to defraud medicare, or perform unnecessary surgeries, or sexually assault a patient....

I think this thread is taking a big turn for the worse !! :popcorn:

Maybe I was confusing. I've never signed one for "my feet hurt" in the usual sense such as "I've been on my feet all day or I stand on a hard floor". Patients who have undergone surgery, have severe chronic arthritic conditions, or have significant peripheral polyneuropathy are a different case
The NY standard remains "the inability to walk 200 feet without stopping" Usually the underlying condition gives a good indication as to whether the patient qualifies. (When diagnosed by a professional, not a casual observer with "life experience"). Sorry, I must have climbed back on "my pedestal" there--- I forgot that 35 years of education, training, experience, board certification, and qualification as an expert witness by the court in every disability proceeding that I have ever testified at "means nothing", and the casual observer is every bit equally qualified to make these clinical determinations as I am (sorry, couldn't resist, still a little perturbed by last night's post)

Technically, I guess one cannot tell the difference between a man and a woman until a medical exam. And one cannot tell if a person is fat by just looking at them. They could just be big boned.
Today, I watched a guy with full mobility, not shuffling, not old, walk spiritedly to his HC placarded car, hop in with no sign of pain or slowness, and back out turning his head fully as he backed up, then drive off. At the same place, I also watched a very old lady get out of her HC placarded car veeerrry slowly, drop her cane, while grasping the seat with one hand sloooowly bent over and picked up her cane, then finally steadied herself to close her car door, and proceeded slowly to the store. Now how many other people like that old lady had to park another 50 or 100 feet away because of that guy, who clearly did not need to park where he parked, took up that space?

I am amazed at how many on this thread remark about all of these people they see in the handicap spots. Do people stand or sit there and watch these people park, get out of their car and walk all the way in the store or where ever ?
I can't remember if I ever saw someone parking in the handicap spot, let alone watch them get out of their car and monitor the way they walk in a store. :confused:

:agree:
No question that this does happen, my 90 year old mother would drop her cane just about every time she got out of the car in a regular parking spot while the handicapped placard sat in the glove compartment. I've seen 20 year olds park in designated spots and jog into the store. And yes, even in deference to my new friend from last night, some are so obvious that no special training is needed to spot them. These rarely are the drivers that obtained the permit, it is usually someone else using the vehicle. Their behavior is totally inconsiderate of others and reflects the "me first" attitude I've alluded to.
Maybe I still have left over anesthesia in my system, but it appears I failed to effectively communicate my position yesterday, at least to one other TOTV poster.
So, if when at first you don't succeed.....
The parking criteria, in NY, are such that there will be patients that clearly qualify whom may not be the least bit evident to a casual observer. They may not be evident to a medical professional who watches from a distance, and therefore may not be evident to someone with extensive "life experience". They may have a pulmonary, respiratory or neurologic condition that only manifests itself after 100-200 feet of sustained effort, and thus be completely invisible when walking short distances. In many cases, you just can't tell. I tried to explain, in my HUMBLE experience, that the frauds who directly seek such a permit from their doctors are quite few and far between.
I'm sure there are providers who just willy-nilly sign a handicap permit, just as they indiscriminately hand out narcotic prescriptions. They are also, in my HUMBLE experience, few and far between.
My intention was to point out, in essence, that you can't judge a handicap book by its cover, but I may have gone overboard in my zeal, or frustration in responding to a particular poster. For this I apologize to him and everyone who may have read the whole thread. I have often posted on the dangers of sitting anonymously behind a keyboard and not counting to ten before responding. I feel I contributed to the deterioration of an important discussion on a subject that helps the weaker among us get out and about. I'm even OK with the personal attack launched back at me, but I do take exception to the attack on my profession as a whole, but I leave that to the conscience of he who shall not be named

How do you know if someone is a 20 year old just by casually looking at them? Rhetorical, but I couldn't resist.

No problem, that was fair game. :1rotfl:

But you would be surprised at how good one can get at guessing ages if you see enough people and are looking at their record

Like I said before (and I am not speaking to anyone personally), some people look for injustices to get irritated about in their lives. Its part of their nature, I think.