[Donna2]

Originally Posted by BethS

Its change and people are afraid of change, I believe change is growth, to do nothing is just more of the same.

People are afraid of bad change. Not all change is growth. Not all growth is good. Isn't this fun?

Obama ran on change. What he didn't tell everybody is what kind of change he had in mind. I think people had their own individual idea's on what change they thought would be coming. Seems to me that we will have to change the constitution because this bill is against everything that it represents.

[CarGuy]

As has been suggested by many people and a few politicians over the last two years, there is a simple way to provide good health care in this country and not take two years and who knows how much time, paper, bribes and special deals to get a 1500 page bill (that no one has read and no one understands) in front of the President.

The bill should have few words:

"Every legal resident in the US will receive precisely the same medical and dental benefits as any member of the US Congress"

A bill of this nature was introduced in the House and never saw the light of day. I wonder why

[jebartle]

I too question how this bill will play out BUT it is a start in the right direction and the government does have a couple of programs that we all enjoy, Medicare and SS

[graciegirl]

Everyone has their point of view and their own life experience. We all come from different places on this issue. I agree with the person that wrote that he stays out of political because the issues get so hot and the statements so extreme that he is afraid he will hate the people who are his neighbors.

I have read all of these statements and I have learned from each of you.

I apologize if I have said something to hurt someone.

I hope that I will always have an open mind.

[zcaveman]

Originally Posted by jebartle

I too question how this bill will play out BUT it is a start in the right direction and the government does have a couple of programs that we all enjoy, Medicare and SS

Excuse me but I paid into SS and Medicare since I started working. I did not enjoy paying into it but I expect to get my money out of it. Besides, my retirement pension and my retirement health insurance are tied to these programs.

[villagerjack]

Originally Posted by jebartle

I too question how this bill will play out BUT it is a start in the right direction and the government does have a couple of programs that we all enjoy, Medicare and SS

Both are broke meaning they have NO MONEY!

[Villages Kahuna]

Originally Posted by villagerjack

Both are broke meaning they have NO MONEY!

First, kudos to BKC for doing the research and providing food for thought for us all. Many of the facts listed are meaningful.

A quick response regarding the financial condition of the Social Security and Medicare systems. When Social Security was signed into law in 1935, the average lifespan of Americans was probably 15 years shorter than it is today. Similarly, when Medicare was enacted in 1965, there was probably no way that the Congress could anticipate that healthcare would have to be provided to people for many more years than they were living at that time. Of course both programs are "broke". Even if our politicians hadn't invaded the trust funds prescribed to fund these programs to pay for current government spending, both programs would still be broke. What's almost criminal is the ignorance of Congresses for decades in ignoring the increasingly desperate need to to restructure these programs and provide for financing more in line with current life expectancies and levels of health. Critics can blame "government" for mismanaging Social Security and Medicare, but the most egregious mismanagement has been ignoring the problems associated with them as those problems became increasingly evident.

However, I still am of the belief that our healthcare system absolutely needs reforms, some of which began with the passage of the healthcare bill. The facts that are the basis for my conclusion are as follows...

• The amount of money we spend on healthcare, currently measured as about 16-17% of our GDP, is almost double that of the next country included in any such listing.
• The increases in our healthcare expenditures and the costs borne by individual citizens are growing at a rate that virtually everyone agrees is unsustainable and unaffordable for a growing number of Americans every day, every week and every month.
• Notwithstanding the skill and creativity of our medical professionals, drug makers and medical device manufacturers, the average life expectancy and infant mortality rates of Americans are well below many countries in the developed world.

Our individual viewpoints regarding the adequacy of our healthcare system seems to be driven by the "haves" versus the "have nots".

If one were to measure the costs and results of healthcare among those Americans who have insurance and access to healthcare, I suspect their statistics would be measurably better than other citizens not so blessed with both financial resources and access.

In debates such as occur on this forum, it's the "haves" who are arguing that our system is OK and the type of legislation enacted early this week was unnecessary. Those who can't afford insurance, are reliant only on ER care when they get sick, or who have had family members or friends die because they had no access to the same type of care so readily available to the haves in our society would certainly have a differing view.

The various studies and statistics capture the average condition of our healthcare system, not the situation that the haves enjoy. That is, all except one glaring statistic. That's the unsustainable escalation of the total cost of healthcare that seems to result from the average poor health and the costs associated with treatment only of advanced medical conditions and virtually no preventive care being experienced by the have nots.

So I guess the way I'm interpreting the statistics available is that we--the haves--really had to do something to protect ourselves from having the escalating costs resultant from the much sicker have nots from dragging our own healthcare down closer to the lower level and higher cost resultant from the care available to the have nots.

Am I saying that is my only reason for supporting healthcare reform? No. I also believe that every citizen of the U.S. has the right to an adequate level of healthcare. If we want to count ourselves as a civil society, I think that's a fundamental requirement.

So, my support of this initial step of healthcare reform--and I do mean an initial step because of the weaknesses in the bill--is based both on my desire to protect my own healthcare from being eroded as the result of the costs and health associtaed with the have nots. But also simply because I want to call myself a member of a society which has some basic and fundamental beliefs regarding the well-being of all its citizens.

I know I probably won't convince others who do not share my beliefs. That's OK with me. I am willing to agree to disagree. But I'd surely like to do so without being disagreeable. That's something that seems sorely missing, both here on this forum, but also among our politicians. And that's too bad.

[Lou Card]

Originally Posted by BobKat1

How about a forum for "Moderates"? I'd sign up for that one.

me also