Heat Pumps

» Site Navigation
Home Page The Villages Maps The Villages Activities The Villages Clubs The Villages Book Healthcare Rentals Real Estate Section Classified Section The Villages Directory Home Improvement Site Guidelines Advertising Info Register Now Video Tutorials Frequently Asked Questions
» Newsletter Signup
» Premium Tower
» Advertisements
» Trending News
» Tower Sponsors




















» Premium Sponsors
» Banner Sponsors
» Advertisements
Reply
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 02-20-2021, 10:28 AM
Choro&Swing Choro&Swing is offline
Veteran member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Tierra del Sol
Posts: 621
Thanks: 922
Thanked 886 Times in 332 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amexsbow View Post
As I have lived in the South since 1946, I have seen a lot of extremes in the weather. The one thing it has taught me is NEVER OWN A HOME WITH A HEAT PUMP.
The recent debacle in TEXAS should make everyone sit up and take notice.
The heat pump is not efficient below 40 degrees.
During extreme cold, below 25 degrees an electric heat strip takes over to provide heat.

A home with natural gas will have hot water, a stove that works, a gas fireplace that works and the ability to have an emergency generator to provide electricity during extreme cold or during electrical outages.
You are living in the past. That USED to be true, even a few years ago, but the best heat pumps today are much more efficient and work well at lower temps, to the point where they are being used even in Vermont. Putting the heat pump on the south side of the house where it is warmer helps a lot, too. Quite often the temp may be 30°, but on the south side in the sun the temp is 60°.
  #32  
Old 02-20-2021, 11:01 AM
Footer Footer is offline
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 43
Thanks: 3
Thanked 26 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amexsbow View Post
As I have lived in the South since 1946, I have seen a lot of extremes in the weather. The one thing it has taught me is NEVER OWN A HOME WITH A HEAT PUMP.
An air conditioner is a heat pump. I can't imagine anyone wants to live in Florida without one of those.

Heat pumps use a compressor to move the heat. The higher the temperature difference, the higher the pressure ratio and the energy required. As you can imagine, if you want to keep your house at 70 and it's 10° outside it will take a lot more pressure than if it's 50°. It's not easy to design a compressor that works efficiently with a big range of pressures.

One way that works well technically is to pump water through pipes into the ground, which will heat the water. The compressor then has a fairly constant 50-60° temperature to work with. You have to bury a lot of pipes deep enough to collect the heat from the earth - not so deep actually unless you don't have a big yard in which case you have to dig a deep vertical hole. Don't know the cost but not cheap compared to conventional technology.

Tesla is using a heat pump for heating their Model 3 and Y. Maybe their technology can be used in home units.
  #33  
Old 02-20-2021, 11:29 AM
DAVES DAVES is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 433
Thanks: 23
Thanked 106 Times in 74 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amexsbow View Post
As I have lived in the South since 1946, I have seen a lot of extremes in the weather. The one thing it has taught me is NEVER OWN A HOME WITH A HEAT PUMP.
The recent debacle in TEXAS should make everyone sit up and take notice.
The heat pump is not efficient below 40 degrees.
During extreme cold, below 25 degrees an electric heat strip takes over to provide heat.

A home with natural gas will have hot water, a stove that works, a gas fireplace that works and the ability to have an emergency generator to provide electricity during extreme cold or during electrical outages.
Like anything nothing is perfect or ever will be. As far as overlapping systems. It is a matter of cost to buy, space for it, maintenance, etc etc etc etc. In terms of being in the south since 1946. I admit, I was not even born then but a lot has changed. There is a good chance you did not even have central air conditioning. I'm not sure they even had heat pumps then. Air conditioning. If, you had it was far less efficient.

Emergency generator running on natural gas that would carry your entire home would be a serious expense. Maintenance, space, etc.

Air conditioning, or heat pump? We can choose to get two. One in case the other one fails. Same is true of a generator.

Choice, there is shortage of choices
  #34  
Old 02-20-2021, 11:33 AM
retiredguy123 retiredguy123 is offline
Sage
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5,817
Thanks: 552
Thanked 3,979 Times in 1,487 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Footer View Post
An air conditioner is a heat pump. I can't imagine anyone wants to live in Florida without one of those.

Heat pumps use a compressor to move the heat. The higher the temperature difference, the higher the pressure ratio and the energy required. As you can imagine, if you want to keep your house at 70 and it's 10° outside it will take a lot more pressure than if it's 50°. It's not easy to design a compressor that works efficiently with a big range of pressures.

One way that works well technically is to pump water through pipes into the ground, which will heat the water. The compressor then has a fairly constant 50-60° temperature to work with. You have to bury a lot of pipes deep enough to collect the heat from the earth - not so deep actually unless you don't have a big yard in which case you have to dig a deep vertical hole. Don't know the cost but not cheap compared to conventional technology.

Tesla is using a heat pump for heating their Model 3 and Y. Maybe their technology can be used in home units.
Yes, the system you refer to in paragraph 3 is a water cooled condenser, which takes advantage of the constant ground temperature to transfer heat to and from the refrigerant. It is more energy efficient, but very expensive. Almost all residential heat pumps used in the country have air cooled condensers, which are much less expensive and use air, not water, for heat transfer.
  #35  
Old 02-20-2021, 11:37 AM
DAVES DAVES is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 433
Thanks: 23
Thanked 106 Times in 74 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Choro&Swing View Post
You are living in the past. That USED to be true, even a few years ago, but the best heat pumps today are much more efficient and work well at lower temps, to the point where they are being used even in Vermont. Putting the heat pump on the south side of the house where it is warmer helps a lot, too. Quite often the temp may be 30°, but on the south side in the sun the temp is 60°.
What you say as far as putting the heat pump compressor on the south side of the home is true as far as heat. However since we are using the same unit for cooling you pay back when you are cooling. I've not seen anyone suggest putting a deciduous tree in to shade your compressor in the summer but leave it opened to gather heat in the ????? winter. I would expect you would be regularly need to take the machine apart to get rid of leaves inside of it.
  #36  
Old 02-20-2021, 11:48 AM
retiredguy123 retiredguy123 is offline
Sage
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5,817
Thanks: 552
Thanked 3,979 Times in 1,487 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVES View Post
What you say as far as putting the heat pump compressor on the south side of the home is true as far as heat. However since we are using the same unit for cooling you pay back when you are cooling. I've not seen anyone suggest putting a deciduous tree in to shade your compressor in the summer but leave it opened to gather heat in the ????? winter. I would expect you would be regularly need to take the machine apart to get rid of leaves inside of it.
The only way the location of the condenser has much effect on the efficiency of the unit is if you can change the outside air temperature. The heat is transferred by blowing the outside air over the coil that has refrigerant flowing through it. The heat transfer is by convection, not radiation. The outside air temperature is usually pretty constant around the house, so anything you do will have little effect on heating or cooling efficiency.
  #37  
Old 02-20-2021, 12:48 PM
paultkdski paultkdski is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 1
Thanks: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Even gas homes were shut down in Texas as propane pumping stations saw equipment freezing... I had a heat pump in Pennsylvania and it was fine although it was more expensive during cold weather as it had to use the electrical element.. but it worked fine.
  #38  
Old 02-20-2021, 01:03 PM
John_W's Avatar
John_W John_W is offline
Sage
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tamarind Grove
Posts: 6,057
Thanks: 1,723
Thanked 2,396 Times in 958 Posts
Default

The OPs avatar said he has lived in Texas and Louisiana, I don't consider them as the real south. Any place that gets snow, isn't the real south. I have all electric since 2011 and my highest electric bill, winter or summer until this year has been $91. January set the record, it was $126, a small price to pay.

I made up my mind a long time ago I would never own a home with gas. In '78 I rented a home in Pensacola while I custom built my permanent home. I couldn't be choosy since it was only for 3 or 4 months. I found a home with no hot water. I noticed the garage was brand new but the rest of the home was a 30 year old rancher. The gas hot water heater in the garage was new, but not connected yet.

When I asked what was going on. They said a neighborhood kid was cutting the grass and set his can of gasoline down in the garage after filling the lawnmower, and he failed to put the gas cap back on the can. The fumes moved across the garage floor to the heater's pilot and blew up the garage and half the kitchen. One person was killed.
  #39  
Old 02-20-2021, 05:54 PM
joelfmi joelfmi is offline
Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 39
Thanks: 4
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Send a message via AIM to joelfmi
Default

sound like you are a trained HVAC Tec.
  #40  
Old 02-20-2021, 06:11 PM
guitarguy guitarguy is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 24
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 16 Posts
Default

Take a look at geothermal heat pumps. They use the ground or nearby water as their heat source. They are extremely efficient, even in cold temperatures.
  #41  
Old 02-20-2021, 07:50 PM
coffeebean coffeebean is offline
Sage
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Village of Mallory Square
Posts: 4,191
Thanks: 252
Thanked 2,413 Times in 1,011 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdFNJ View Post
I guess that eliminates the vast majority of the homes here for you ??? We have had a few days (well, hours) below 30 degrees here in the 4 years we've been here and we have been warm and cozy and a few hours later the temps are in the 60's. I guess if we get down to the teens and have a snow/ice storm we might regret the heat pump. If that happens there will be a whole lot of new climate change believers.
Our Villages homes have heat pumps? I just thought what we have is a gas furnace. Our home was built in 2007 in Mallory Square.
__________________
coffeebean
I've had both vaccine shots!
  #42  
Old 02-20-2021, 10:22 PM
aviator aviator is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 20
Thanks: 2
Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amexsbow View Post
As I have lived in the South since 1946, I have seen a lot of extremes in the weather. The one thing it has taught me is NEVER OWN A HOME WITH A HEAT PUMP.
The recent debacle in TEXAS should make everyone sit up and take notice.
The heat pump is not efficient below 40 degrees.
During extreme cold, below 25 degrees an electric heat strip takes over to provide heat.

A home with natural gas will have hot water, a stove that works, a gas fireplace that works and the ability to have an emergency generator to provide electricity during extreme cold or during electrical outages.
The air handler in my garage connected to my heat pump also has gas burners in it so my heat is by gas only not by electric strips
  #43  
Old 02-20-2021, 10:40 PM
aviator aviator is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 20
Thanks: 2
Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2inOR View Post
South of 44, natural gas is available in Marsh Bend which is west of the turnpike. East of the turnpike, there's no natural gas.

As for lightning, several months ago a home in our neighborhood was struck by lightning. A casualty was the natural gas pipe in the attic which developed a slow leak and caught fire. Fortunately it was discovered early, but still had minor damage to some of the trusses as well as the roof. Neighbor was quite lucky. Lightning struck the roof, traveled down the Ethernet cables in the attic and office, the front light post, and then to the gas pipeline.

Lightning will find a way to do the damage!
Replaced all my cheap aluminum gas pipe in my attic with the old heavy black pipe problem solved lightning will not affect it.
  #44  
Old 02-20-2021, 10:42 PM
aviator aviator is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 20
Thanks: 2
Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2inOR View Post
South of 44, natural gas is available in Marsh Bend which is west of the turnpike. East of the turnpike, there's no natural gas.

As for lightning, several months ago a home in our neighborhood was struck by lightning. A casualty was the natural gas pipe in the attic which developed a slow leak and caught fire. Fortunately it was discovered early, but still had minor damage to some of the trusses as well as the roof. Neighbor was quite lucky. Lightning struck the roof, traveled down the Ethernet cables in the attic and office, the front light post, and then to the gas pipeline.

Lightning will find a way to do the damage!
Replaced all my cheap flexible, thin wall, aluminum gas pipe in my attic with the old heavy black pipe problem solved lightning will not affect it.
Reply

Tags
heat, home, cold, pump, extreme

Thread Tools

You are viewing a new design of the TOTV site. Click here to revert to the old version.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 AM.