[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by EPutnam1863

Rent for a YEAR to see if you can tolerate the heat and humidity from April to October or November.

Or buy a modest home in The Villages, and a condo up north for the summer.

[dddave]

If you considering moving to The Villages ask for a copy of the covenants; if you a new home buyer find your copy. Read it very carefully. It is long and complex; sometimes irrational; applied arbitrarily; but strictly enforced, and is, de facto, unappealable.

1. Long and complex: Your first encounter with the Covenants document is usually at closing. Being long and complex, you will not have time to read it before signing on the bottom line. You are now subject to a document that will have more impact on your daily life than state and federal laws. It is "almost" written as boilerplate for new CCD's (Community Development Districts). But contains within it, little differences for each district, as well as rules that apply only to specific housing styles, and lot locations. So read it very carefully.

2. Irrational: The covenants for my village say that you cannot have man-made landscape ornaments on your front lawn. This is sort of understandable - would you want your neighbor to put a flock on 100 plastic pink flamingos on his front lawn? Being unaware of the front lawn ornament rule, the new villager soon gets a letter from the CCD, saying his little plastic pets are out of compliance. He dutifully complies and the next day his neighbors happily see that pink is gone and the dominant color is again green. However, the day after that, he replants them in his backyard. Why? He read his covenants that night and found no stricture against doing so. Now all the golfers on the course that backs up to his house get to enjoy his landscaping skills. Irrational

3. Arbitrarily applied: The Community Development Districts, which nominally are responsible for covenant oversight, have no inspection group, but what they do have is your neighbor - only if a neighbor reports a possible violation will the CCD jump into action. and send a volunteer to the house to confirm the veracity of the complaint.

The "arbitrariness" enters the picture, because, as the volunteer wends his was to the offending property, it is almost certain he will pass houses with similar offenses. However, his/her orders are to report on the offending property only. The property with 50 artificial deer on the lawn will be ignored by the inspector. One more thing - the complainer can stay anonymous. A similar system was used in Germany in the 1930's.

4. Strictly enforced, and, de facto, unappealable: Once the violation is confirmed by the inspector, you (as the owner of the "pinko" property) are informed of the violation and given a certain time to comply. If you have not complied by the end of that period, the fines can start building up.

Your natural instinct is to appeal, which you have the right to do - to present you case before the CCD. In your mind you would be thinking of your case and its extenuating circumstances - "the volunteer was not an expert on landscaping"; I need the flamingo's as a windbreak"; "would it be ok if I painted them green to match the lawn?" "I think the neighbor who reported me is the one I ran over with my golf cart - he is only looking for revenge." In effect you are looking for a "variance". In my research, I could not evidence of variance has ever been granted to anyone, for any reason, in any village, at any time.

So what are you allowed to appeal? The simple answer is - the rule itself. That is, repeal it for everyone. To go this route, you have to prove something like, "It brings down property value," "Creativity, individuality and artistic taste are subordinated to common boring similarity". "I poled all my neighbors. 93% of them want the rule gone". I doubt if any CDD would bow to such idealistic presentations. Let alone risk the ire of the thousands of others in the district who agree with the rule.

The Villages is a wonderful place to live and play. However, I am writing this because I want to warn potential and new villagers of some of the darker realities, And help them deal with these realities in a realistic way.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by dddave

If you considering moving to The Villages ask for a copy of the covenants; if you a new home buyer find your copy. Read it very carefully. It is long and complex; sometimes irrational; applied arbitrarily; but strictly enforced, and is, de facto, unappealable.

1. Long and complex: Your first encounter with the Covenants document is usually at closing. Being long and complex, you will not have time to read it before signing on the bottom line. You are now subject to a document that will have more impact on your daily life than state and federal laws. It is "almost" written as boilerplate for new CCD's (Community Development Districts). But contains within it, little differences for each district, as well as rules that apply only to specific housing styles, and lot locations. So read it very carefully.

2. Irrational: The covenants for my village say that you cannot have man-made landscape ornaments on your front lawn. This is sort of understandable - would you want your neighbor to put a flock on 100 plastic pink flamingos on his front lawn? Being unaware of the front lawn ornament rule, the new villager soon gets a letter from the CCD, saying his little plastic pets are out of compliance. He dutifully complies and the next day his neighbors happily see that pink is gone and the dominant color is again green. However, the day after that, he replants them in his backyard. Why? He read his covenants that night and found no stricture against doing so. Now all the golfers on the course that backs up to his house get to enjoy his landscaping skills. Irrational

3. Arbitrarily applied: The Community Development Districts, which nominally are responsible for covenant oversight, have no inspection group, but what they do have is your neighbor - only if a neighbor reports a possible violation will the CCD jump into action. and send a volunteer to the house to confirm the veracity of the complaint.

The "arbitrariness" enters the picture, because, as the volunteer wends his was to the offending property, it is almost certain he will pass houses with similar offenses. However, his/her orders are to report on the offending property only. The property with 50 artificial deer on the lawn will be ignored by the inspector. One more thing - the complainer can stay anonymous. A similar system was used in Germany in the 1930's.

4. Strictly enforced, and, de facto, unappealable: Once the violation is confirmed by the inspector, you (as the owner of the "pinko" property) are informed of the violation and given a certain time to comply. If you have not complied by the end of that period, the fines can start building up.

Your natural instinct is to appeal, which you have the right to do - to present you case before the CCD. In your mind you would be thinking of your case and its extenuating circumstances - "the volunteer was not an expert on landscaping"; I need the flamingo's as a windbreak"; "would it be ok if I painted them green to match the lawn?" "I think the neighbor who reported me is the one I ran over with my golf cart - he is only looking for revenge." In effect you are looking for a "variance". In my research, I could not evidence of variance has ever been granted to anyone, for any reason, in any village, at any time.

So what are you allowed to appeal? The simple answer is - the rule itself. That is, repeal it for everyone. To go this route, you have to prove something like, "It brings down property value," "Creativity, individuality and artistic taste are subordinated to common boring similarity". "I poled all my neighbors. 93% of them want the rule gone". I doubt if any CDD would bow to such idealistic presentations. Let alone risk the ire of the thousands of others in the district who agree with the rule.

The Villages is a wonderful place to live and play. However, I am writing this because I want to warn potential and new villagers of some of the darker realities, And help them deal with these realities in a realistic way.

Many of us who have lived in communities with deed restrictions before, sought a similar place to live.

One of the things that always made me shudder about Florida in general was the fact that there was so little control of living next to someone who stored their extra car up on blocks.

I challenge this posters use of the words "darker realities". Many of us want to live where there is control of plywood bend over ladies and rather enjoy having the sameness in architecture as opposed to someone whose creativity is waaaaaaaaay out there living next door in a failed Frank Lloyd Wright Falling Water attempt.

If there were a someone or a band of someones who policed deed restriction infringements that would cost the CDD. Maybe not much, but the very beauty of how this place is run includes not wasting money on thousands of things and salaries that add up to a lot of taxes and fees.

If a person finds out that the deed restrictions are unbearable, that person can easily sell his/her home and move where there is freedom to embellish his/her property. The movers are cheaper here in Florida and the opportunities to live in an area without deed restrictions are endless. Look for a neighborhood with numerous outbuildings and rusting vehicles.

Another thread on this subject; Restrictions and Conformity

[Doro22]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Many of us who have lived in communities with deed restrictions before, sought a similar place to live.

One of the things that always made me shudder about Florida in general was the fact that there was so little control of living next to someone who stored their extra car up on blocks.

I challenge this posters use of the words "darker realities". Many of us want to live where there is control of plywood bend over ladies and rather enjoy having the sameness in architecture as opposed to someone whose creativity is waaaaaaaaay out there living next door in a failed Frank Lloyd Wright Falling Water attempt.



If there were a someone or a band of someones who policed deed restriction infringements that would cost the CDD. Maybe not much, but the very beauty of how this place is run includes not wasting money on thousands of things and salaries that add up to a lot of taxes and fees.

If a person finds out that the deed restrictions are unbearable, that person can easily sell his/her home and move where there is freedom to embellish his/her property. The movers are cheaper here in Florida and the opportunities to live in an area without deed restrictions are endless. Look for a neighborhood with numerous outbuildings and rusting vehicles.

Another thread on this subject; Restrictions and Conformity

In your third paragraph...What are “plywood bend over ladies”?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Doro22

In your third paragraph...What are “plywood bend over ladies”?

Here you are Doro.

yard art. plywood bend over ladies. - Bing

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by dddave

I am writing this because I want to warn potential and new villagers of some of the darker realities, And help them deal with these realities in a realistic way.

I've lived in The Villages seasonally for eleven years.
I've yet to see any darker realities of deed compliance.

[Doro22]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Here you are Doro.

yard art. plywood bend over ladies. - Bing

Oh thanks...that is funny! We didn’t have those in S. FL. But if you go down the New River in your boat heading toward the ocean one house has about 100 of those dancing flamingoes in the back yard...all colors. I have two in my back yard here.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by dddave

If you considering moving to The Villages ask for a copy of the covenants; if you a new home buyer find your copy. Read it very carefully. It is long and complex; sometimes irrational; applied arbitrarily; but strictly enforced, and is, de facto, unappealable.

1. Long and complex: Your first encounter with the Covenants document is usually at closing. Being long and complex, you will not have time to read it before signing on the bottom line. You are now subject to a document that will have more impact on your daily life than state and federal laws. It is "almost" written as boilerplate for new CCD's (Community Development Districts). But contains within it, little differences for each district, as well as rules that apply only to specific housing styles, and lot locations. So read it very carefully.

2. Irrational: The covenants for my village say that you cannot have man-made landscape ornaments on your front lawn. This is sort of understandable - would you want your neighbor to put a flock on 100 plastic pink flamingos on his front lawn? Being unaware of the front lawn ornament rule, the new villager soon gets a letter from the CCD, saying his little plastic pets are out of compliance. He dutifully complies and the next day his neighbors happily see that pink is gone and the dominant color is again green. However, the day after that, he replants them in his backyard. Why? He read his covenants that night and found no stricture against doing so. Now all the golfers on the course that backs up to his house get to enjoy his landscaping skills. Irrational

3. Arbitrarily applied: The Community Development Districts, which nominally are responsible for covenant oversight, have no inspection group, but what they do have is your neighbor - only if a neighbor reports a possible violation will the CCD jump into action. and send a volunteer to the house to confirm the veracity of the complaint.

The "arbitrariness" enters the picture, because, as the volunteer wends his was to the offending property, it is almost certain he will pass houses with similar offenses. However, his/her orders are to report on the offending property only. The property with 50 artificial deer on the lawn will be ignored by the inspector. One more thing - the complainer can stay anonymous. A similar system was used in Germany in the 1930's.

4. Strictly enforced, and, de facto, unappealable: Once the violation is confirmed by the inspector, you (as the owner of the "pinko" property) are informed of the violation and given a certain time to comply. If you have not complied by the end of that period, the fines can start building up.

Your natural instinct is to appeal, which you have the right to do - to present you case before the CCD. In your mind you would be thinking of your case and its extenuating circumstances - "the volunteer was not an expert on landscaping"; I need the flamingo's as a windbreak"; "would it be ok if I painted them green to match the lawn?" "I think the neighbor who reported me is the one I ran over with my golf cart - he is only looking for revenge." In effect you are looking for a "variance". In my research, I could not evidence of variance has ever been granted to anyone, for any reason, in any village, at any time.

So what are you allowed to appeal? The simple answer is - the rule itself. That is, repeal it for everyone. To go this route, you have to prove something like, "It brings down property value," "Creativity, individuality and artistic taste are subordinated to common boring similarity". "I poled all my neighbors. 93% of them want the rule gone". I doubt if any CDD would bow to such idealistic presentations. Let alone risk the ire of the thousands of others in the district who agree with the rule.

The Villages is a wonderful place to live and play. However, I am writing this because I want to warn potential and new villagers of some of the darker realities, And help them deal with these realities in a realistic way.

I wonder if they would let topiary pink flamingos fly. Here are some real beauties at Franklin Park in Ohio. franklin park pink flamingo topiary photo - Google Search

[bilcon]

I have been here for 10 years and drink and cook with the water. Still feel fine. Don't be fooled by the salespeople. Yesterday I threw a TruGreen Salesperson off my property after he left a flyer on my door. It wasn't pretty, but I don't think he will be back. There are really some great people do service jobs in The Villages. Just take your time.

[600th Photo Sq]

Originally Posted by Vinny

We sold or gave away our furniture before moving to TV. We bought from Southern Lifestyles who have the floor plans for each model home ad are able to do floor plans for each room. When we got here our new furniture was all in place as designed and we felt like we were coming home rather than moving in.

Sound advice.......However Southern Lifestyle is no longer in the Villages besides that they are no longer a company.

[600th Photo Sq]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Here you are Doro.

yard art. plywood bend over ladies. - Bing

How about Bend over " Plumbers "

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by dddave

If you considering moving to The Villages ask for a copy of the covenants; if you a new home buyer find your copy. Read it very carefully. It is long and complex; sometimes irrational; applied arbitrarily; but strictly enforced, and is, de facto, unappealable.

1. Long and complex: Your first encounter with the Covenants document is usually at closing. Being long and complex, you will not have time to read it before signing on the bottom line. You are now subject to a document that will have more impact on your daily life than state and federal laws. It is "almost" written as boilerplate for new CCD's (Community Development Districts). But contains within it, little differences for each district, as well as rules that apply only to specific housing styles, and lot locations. So read it very carefully.

2. Irrational: The covenants for my village say that you cannot have man-made landscape ornaments on your front lawn. This is sort of understandable - would you want your neighbor to put a flock on 100 plastic pink flamingos on his front lawn? Being unaware of the front lawn ornament rule, the new villager soon gets a letter from the CCD, saying his little plastic pets are out of compliance. He dutifully complies and the next day his neighbors happily see that pink is gone and the dominant color is again green. However, the day after that, he replants them in his backyard. Why? He read his covenants that night and found no stricture against doing so. Now all the golfers on the course that backs up to his house get to enjoy his landscaping skills. Irrational

3. Arbitrarily applied: The Community Development Districts, which nominally are responsible for covenant oversight, have no inspection group, but what they do have is your neighbor - only if a neighbor reports a possible violation will the CCD jump into action. and send a volunteer to the house to confirm the veracity of the complaint.

The "arbitrariness" enters the picture, because, as the volunteer wends his was to the offending property, it is almost certain he will pass houses with similar offenses. However, his/her orders are to report on the offending property only. The property with 50 artificial deer on the lawn will be ignored by the inspector. One more thing - the complainer can stay anonymous. A similar system was used in Germany in the 1930's.

4. Strictly enforced, and, de facto, unappealable: Once the violation is confirmed by the inspector, you (as the owner of the "pinko" property) are informed of the violation and given a certain time to comply. If you have not complied by the end of that period, the fines can start building up.

Your natural instinct is to appeal, which you have the right to do - to present you case before the CCD. In your mind you would be thinking of your case and its extenuating circumstances - "the volunteer was not an expert on landscaping"; I need the flamingo's as a windbreak"; "would it be ok if I painted them green to match the lawn?" "I think the neighbor who reported me is the one I ran over with my golf cart - he is only looking for revenge." In effect you are looking for a "variance". In my research, I could not evidence of variance has ever been granted to anyone, for any reason, in any village, at any time.

So what are you allowed to appeal? The simple answer is - the rule itself. That is, repeal it for everyone. To go this route, you have to prove something like, "It brings down property value," "Creativity, individuality and artistic taste are subordinated to common boring similarity". "I poled all my neighbors. 93% of them want the rule gone". I doubt if any CDD would bow to such idealistic presentations. Let alone risk the ire of the thousands of others in the district who agree with the rule.

The Villages is a wonderful place to live and play. However, I am writing this because I want to warn potential and new villagers of some of the darker realities, And help them deal with these realities in a realistic way.

One man's opinion. Many of us are thankful that the deed restrictions are in place and enforced as needed.

[dddave]

do apologize for using the term "darker realities".However, I am constantly amazed at the color blindness of many Villagers - everything is either black or white - all or nothing - if you don't like one thing about The Villages, leave. Don't you see the beautiful shades of gray in between? Perhaps I should have said, "The less than lily white realities".

You might not believe this but I think There is no better place in Florida for retirees to live and play. However, like all human endeavors, The Villages is not perfect. (I personally hope that i will see real perfection a few seconds after my last breath). But in our current, imperfect world, if we see something that can be done or made better, I think we have a responsibility to, at least point it out to others. If they see it as we do, great. If they don't that is okay too. At least we know their position and solution, and they know ours.

However, the solution is not to ask your antagonist (me), "Please leave because I don't agree with you."

I would like to respond paragraph by paragraph:

Paragraphs 1 and 2 - Many of us who have lived in communities with deed restrictions before, sought a similar place to live.

I too have lived in many deed restricted places. However, in my view, it is not restrictions that make the community a nice place to live; It's how they are interpreted and applied. In my experience, it's the communities where the restrictions are poorly enforced, that your see "plywood bend over ladies."

Paragraph 3: I challenge this posters use of the words "darker realities". Many of us want to live where there is control of plywood bend over ladies and rather enjoy having the sameness in architecture as opposed to someone whose creativity is waaaaaaaaay out there living next door in a failed Frank Lloyd Wright Falling Water attempt.

I have already apologized for my "reality" jab. What I have said in my critique, is based on personal experience. And I will admit that a reasonable amount of these experiences was due to my own lack of pre-planning. That being said, of the 10s of thousands of people who are going to move into the expanding Villages in the future, many will be doing so with the same lack of diligence and planning as I did. I would have welcomed the advice I have given here. Not that it would have been a deal breaker - I still would have bought. But I would have dealt with the "realities' much better. This thread began with the idea of r thread began with the idea of advising pre-buyers of things to know about before they bought. My input as valid as recommending not to waste time with water softener salespeople.

As far as your enjoyment of the sameness of Village architecture, that is a qualitative and esthetical call on your part. Yes. there are folks who do like it and folks that don't. Neither one is wrong. But it feels to me that your position is not based on esthetics, but the fear of the morbidly creative "rabble" trying to burst "The Bubble" and create a dystopia where we now live.

Paragraph 4. If there were a someone or a band of someones who policed deed restriction infringements that would cost the CDD. Maybe not much, but the very beauty of how this place is run includes not wasting money on thousands of things and salaries that add up to a lot of taxes and fees.


Point well taken, but the reality is that the current deed violation inspector(s) is an anonymous and volunteer committee of "one." In every deed-restricted community I have lived, the "Inspectors" were a sub-committee of the HOA board. They did the inspecting; they wrote violation notifications and they advised the board on non-compliances, and recommended legal action, if and only if numerous attempts to reason had failed. Every community member knew who was on this sub-committee. If the violator wanted to appeal their ruling he or she could do so in front of the board and, with the deed compliance committee present to support their case. Like all human developed system it had its flaws. Yes, violators would on rare occasions get physical with committee members. However, the community usually got behind the committee and, for fear of being socially ostracized, the offender would removed his car with the cinderblock tires.

Paragraph Last: If a person finds out that the deed restrictions are unbearable, that person can easily sell his/her home and move where there is freedom to embellish his/her property. The movers are cheaper here in Florida and the opportunities to live in an area without deed restrictions are endless. Look for a neighborhood with numerous outbuildings and rusting vehicles.

I addressed part of this in my first paragraph. Let me end by saying, I bought a house in The Villages. I like it here. I choose not to move. I have the freedom, like every American to live here and to express my views about "here". Ths is my community as well as yours. I will submit to you, Mam, that, if you do not like neighbors who loudly voice displeasure at some of the "realities" in The Villages, that you move. Move to a community of silence and peace and sameness and harmony, As a matter of fact I know of at least five such communities in Florida. And the cost of living would be infinitely less than The Villages. They are all called nunneries.

[CindyNah1]

I have one. if you are seasonal or snow bird. no problem. I am a year round and can't use it in the summer. I would not make that the most important decision in buying the home. If you love the home/location. neighbors, the lanai will not be an issue

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by dddave

do apologize for using the term "darker realities".However, I am constantly amazed at the color blindness of many Villagers - everything is either black or white - all or nothing - if you don't like one thing about The Villages, leave. Don't you see the beautiful shades of gray in between? Perhaps I should have said, "The less than lily white realities".

You might not believe this but I think There is no better place in Florida for retirees to live and play. However, like all human endeavors, The Villages is not perfect. (I personally hope that i will see real perfection a few seconds after my last breath). But in our current, imperfect world, if we see something that can be done or made better, I think we have a responsibility to, at least point it out to others. If they see it as we do, great. If they don't that is okay too. At least we know their position and solution, and they know ours.

However, the solution is not to ask your antagonist (me), "Please leave because I don't agree with you."

I would like to respond paragraph by paragraph:

Paragraphs 1 and 2 - Many of us who have lived in communities with deed restrictions before, sought a similar place to live.

I too have lived in many deed restricted places. However, in my view, it is not restrictions that make the community a nice place to live; It's how they are interpreted and applied. In my experience, it's the communities where the restrictions are poorly enforced, that your see "plywood bend over ladies."

Paragraph 3: I challenge this posters use of the words "darker realities". Many of us want to live where there is control of plywood bend over ladies and rather enjoy having the sameness in architecture as opposed to someone whose creativity is waaaaaaaaay out there living next door in a failed Frank Lloyd Wright Falling Water attempt.

I have already apologized for my "reality" jab. What I have said in my critique, is based on personal experience. And I will admit that a reasonable amount of these experiences was due to my own lack of pre-planning. That being said, of the 10s of thousands of people who are going to move into the expanding Villages in the future, many will be doing so with the same lack of diligence and planning as I did. I would have welcomed the advice I have given here. Not that it would have been a deal breaker - I still would have bought. But I would have dealt with the "realities' much better. This thread began with the idea of r thread began with the idea of advising pre-buyers of things to know about before they bought. My input as valid as recommending not to waste time with water softener salespeople.

As far as your enjoyment of the sameness of Village architecture, that is a qualitative and esthetical call on your part. Yes. there are folks who do like it and folks that don't. Neither one is wrong. But it feels to me that your position is not based on esthetics, but the fear of the morbidly creative "rabble" trying to burst "The Bubble" and create a dystopia where we now live.

Paragraph 4. If there were a someone or a band of someones who policed deed restriction infringements that would cost the CDD. Maybe not much, but the very beauty of how this place is run includes not wasting money on thousands of things and salaries that add up to a lot of taxes and fees.


Point well taken, but the reality is that the current deed violation inspector(s) is an anonymous and volunteer committee of "one." In every deed-restricted community I have lived, the "Inspectors" were a sub-committee of the HOA board. They did the inspecting; they wrote violation notifications and they advised the board on non-compliances, and recommended legal action, if and only if numerous attempts to reason had failed. Every community member knew who was on this sub-committee. If the violator wanted to appeal their ruling he or she could do so in front of the board and, with the deed compliance committee present to support their case. Like all human developed system it had its flaws. Yes, violators would on rare occasions get physical with committee members. However, the community usually got behind the committee and, for fear of being socially ostracized, the offender would removed his car with the cinderblock tires.

Paragraph Last: If a person finds out that the deed restrictions are unbearable, that person can easily sell his/her home and move where there is freedom to embellish his/her property. The movers are cheaper here in Florida and the opportunities to live in an area without deed restrictions are endless. Look for a neighborhood with numerous outbuildings and rusting vehicles.

I addressed part of this in my first paragraph. Let me end by saying, I bought a house in The Villages. I like it here. I choose not to move. I have the freedom, like every American to live here and to express my views about "here". Ths is my community as well as yours. I will submit to you, Mam, that, if you do not like neighbors who loudly voice displeasure at some of the "realities" in The Villages, that you move. Move to a community of silence and peace and sameness and harmony, As a matter of fact I know of at least five such communities in Florida. And the cost of living would be infinitely less than The Villages. They are all called nunneries.

If an anonymous villager reports a deed restriction that is NOT a deed restriction, then no penalty will be given. Some people would report cactus. I don't think they are deed restrictions.

I don't think there are any cloistered nuns anywhere anymore. And their homes are/were called convents.

I am thinking about whether I am afraid of "rabble" and I am not sure who "rabble" is. But I do like to live in a neighborhood of folks who try to keep things nice.