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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Hobby Lobby: the Supreme Court's Decision (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/hobby-lobby-supreme-courts-decision-119713/)

njbchbum 07-04-2014 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggyone (Post 902480)
Do not forget about the ones who do not believe in vaccinations.

As Justice Ginsberg said, " this is entering a minefield" of what can be brought up.

Bad decision.

Well, we stopped going to Hobby Lobby over a year ago anyhow based on their lunatic fringe idealogy.
I keep shopping at Hobby Lobby because their personal beliefs have no impact on my life but their great products and sales do have great impact on my finances!.

Ginsberg/minefield - rotflmao
From the decision:
"(3) This decision concerns only the contraceptive mandate and should not be understood to hold that all insurance-coverage mandates, e.g., for vaccinations or blood transfusions, must necessarily fall if they conflict with an employer’s religious beliefs. Nor does it provide a shield for employers who might cloak illegal discrimination as a religious practice."
[http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/im...-354_olp1.pdf]

perrjojo 07-04-2014 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44Ruger (Post 902541)
When looked at in that way, you make a perfect excuse. I still feel we are looking at discrimination and that is a bad thing. Should they be allowed to require all new employees to convert to their specific beliefs to obtain employment.
No, they should not and do not make such a requirement. Hobby Lobby pays twice the minimum wage and provides good benefits except for birth control. If that is an issue for a woman, she may not want to apply for at job at Hobby Lobby. I'm not saying their stand is right or wrong. I just think they have a right to decide.... Just as they have a right to decide to close on Sunday when that is also outside the norm.

44Ruger 07-04-2014 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggyone (Post 902480)
Do not forget about the ones who do not believe in vaccinations.

As Justice Ginsberg said, " this is entering a minefield" of what can be brought up.

Bad decision.

Well, we stopped going to Hobby Lobby over a year ago anyhow based on their lunatic fringe idealogy.
Agree, we need not turn into a secular nation like so many in the Middle East. This is one more way of chipping away at the freedoms Americans love. Leave my guns and my way of worship alone.

njbchbum 07-04-2014 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwitch (Post 902405)
I find it extremely frightening. What next -- privately held corporations will once again be allowed to discriminate against homosexuals, people of color, women, etc.? Oh,wait, this ruling does allow a company to discriminate against women since birth control is not a male issue.
How do you get from a privately owned family business which is held only by a few family members [rather than is publicly traded] and who provides insurance to its employees for 16 of 20 contraceptive measures to this being discriminatory against women?

How do you even question the potential to discriminate against the laundry list of people you cited when THIS case is about 4 forms of contraception?

NYGUY 07-04-2014 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by perrjojo (Post 902545)
No, they should not and do not make such a requirement. Hobby Lobby pays twice the minimum wage and provides good benefits except for birth control. If that is an issue for a woman, she may not want to apply for a job at Hobby Lobby. I'm not saying their stand is right or wrong. I just think they have a right to decide.... Just as they have a right to decide to close on Sunday when that is also outside the norm.
That's right, and just how they have a right to ignore there own beliefs and buy much of their product line from China, which promotes abortion as a means of population control.

Challenger 07-04-2014 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44Ruger (Post 902548)
Agree, we need not turn into a secular nation like so many in the Middle East. This is one more way of chipping away at the freedoms Americans love. Leave my guns and my way of worship alone.
Which countries in the Middle East are Secular?:shrug:

njbchbum 07-04-2014 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomoho (Post 902432)
Please understand it is not all contraception that is being denied - that is a liberal lie being told to boost the "war on women" concept. The owners of Hobby Lobby believe life begins at conception; therefore, to take or use something that would cause that viable egg to be destroyed is against their religious beliefs. Why should these private owners have to pay for something they don't believe in? What about their rights to religious beliefs? They are not telling women how to live their lives - they still have the option to buy on the open market something that will terminate the pregnancy. And let's get down to personal responsibility - if you can't afford to get pregnant or pay for the morning after pill than use you brain and don't get in that position.

If you feel so strongly that your business should pay for this option for a woman than you should put your money and time and family life on the line and open a business next door and then those that want this coverage can come work for you. Stop already
with the whining and the "I'm entitled bs".
:bigbow: :agree:

biker1 07-04-2014 09:45 AM
Check the facts of the case. This was about 4 forms of abortion-inducing birth control. Hobby Lobby did provide and will continue to provide 16 other forms of birth control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 902410)
It's interesting to note that with all the hullabaloo about Hobby Lobby not wanting to pay insurance for birth control for women,
they will pay for a man's Rx to take Viagra, Cialis, etc.

Somehow, I find that rather strange. Hmmmm . . .
If you'll excuse me for being graphic,
that means that it's okay for a man to put it in,
but women . . . well . . . okay ladies . . .
roll the dice and take your chances!
:shrug:

njbchbum 07-04-2014 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedwards38 (Post 902478)
I did see a curious post on the internet relative to this SCOTUS decision. The main points were:

(1) If your employer is a Jehovah's Witness, can they now refuse to provide insurance that will pay for blood transfusions due to religious convictions?

(2) If your employer is a Scientologist, can they refuse to provide insurance that will pay for doctor visits due to religious convictions?

My apologies in advance to all Jehovah's Witnesses and Scientologists as I know little about your religious beliefs.
If the employers can stand up to and meet the numerous limiting qualifiers established in this decision - most likely yes. What do you think the odds are that one of those employers is going to test that possibility?

biker1 07-04-2014 09:51 AM
Hobby Lobby did provide and will continue to provide birth control except for 4 forms (out of 20) that are abortion-induing. To say that they are not proving birth control benefits is just wrong. Also, nothing is stopping Hobby Lobby employees from purchasing abortion-inducing forms of birth control.


Quote:
Originally Posted by perrjojo (Post 902545)
No, they should not and do not make such a requirement. Hobby Lobby pays twice the minimum wage and provides good benefits except for birth control. If that is an issue for a woman, she may not want to apply for at job at Hobby Lobby. I'm not saying their stand is right or wrong. I just think they have a right to decide.... Just as they have a right to decide to close on Sunday when that is also outside the norm.

rubicon 07-04-2014 09:53 AM
Everyone keeps talking about freedoms but what Hobby Lobby is about is not FREEDOMS but ENTITLEMENTS.

The government can mandate for you to secure birth control courtesy of your insurance policy which an employer is paying for and subsidized by tax payers
So isn't it a short hop to enforcing women to giving birth to only one baby or forcing a woman to abort a pregnancy government feels might result in a not so perfect human being in order to control insurance costs and cut down on over use of medical facilties.

From a personal point of view our government is way out of line and as did communist with Eastern Europe this government will take away our freedoms one slice at a time and its causing me great concern for succeeding generations of Americans

redwitch 07-04-2014 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon (Post 902562)
From a personal point of view our government is way out of line and as did communist with Eastern Europe this government will take away our freedoms one slice at a time and its causing me great concern for succeeding generations of Americans
The freedoms we have lost and given up truly frighten me. We've given up free speech and privacy for security. We are willing to waive the right to be protected from search and seizure and even a right to a fair trial so that we're safe from terrorists. We're encouraged to report friends and neighbors. The separation of church and state is seriously dwindling. Roe v. Wade is almost out of the door. Even Miranda has been diluted. It seems like individual freedoms are going by the wayside for the "greater good."

And I'm on the verge of getting seriously political, so I guess better get my fingers off the keyboard and go do something constructive.

onslowe 07-04-2014 10:42 AM
Gracie is correct to say that none of us will persuade the other in this type of topic, and it only goes to the ruination of one's day.

However, I, as a practicing and praying Christian, don't like phrases like 'lunatic fringe ideology' tossed about at religious people. That's a broad insult and says a lot about the genuine fear ruling some people's lives. Religion is not the same as 'ideology' but the latter is certainly the more attention grabbing word especially for those who live by sound bytes and quick slogans.

Rubicon and Gomoho have very well stated what they, and I believe, that this is all about dubious 'entitlements' and the slippery slope of smiley faced government fascism regardless of political party.

perrjojo 07-04-2014 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGUY (Post 902551)
That's right, and just how they have a right to ignore there own beliefs and buy much of their product line from China, which promotes abortion as a means of population control.
I understand your logic but if they did not buy products from China they would have nothing to sell. Look at the labels on your clothes and everything else in your home. What percentage is made in the USA? I try to buy American made but is almost impossible.

Taltarzac725 07-04-2014 10:51 AM
Buddhist view of abortion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by perrjojo (Post 902596)
I understand your logic but if they did not buy products from China they would have nothing to sell. Look at the labels on your clothes and everything else in your home. What percentage is made in the USA? I try to buy American made but is almost impossible.
Buddhist Perspectives on the Abortion Debate

I was thinking about the religion in China and discovered this interesting article.


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