[Villages Kahuna]

There have been lots of words written recently about the apartments to be built at the Hacienda Hills CC site. How about some arithmetic?

—The 7 acre site has 308,00 sq.ft. of buildable space.

— If we make a conservative assumption that 3 acres of the site will be required for the resort pool, walking trails, and other recreational amenities promised by the Developer, the buildable portion of the site is reduced to 176,000 sf.

— The amount of buildable space will be further reduced by the space required for surface parking for apartment residents and guests cars and golf carts, and modest landscaping around the building. At standard “striping sizes” and assuming 1/4 acre of landscaping, those items further reduce the buildable surface on the site by about 75,000 sf, further reducing the buildable surface to about 101,000 sf.

— At an average size of 1,200 sf, the 286 apartments will require 343,000 sf. Add in a 20% factor for hallways and other common areas and there will be 412,000 sf under roof. No allocation has been made for the promised restaurant or restaurant parking.

The arithmetic indicates that the new structure will average slightly more than 4 stories in height. If resident parking and a restaurant are added “under roof”, the structure would average closer to 5 stories in height. If parking for the apartments is provided under ground, the height of the structure could be maintained at about 4 stories.

All that arithmetic being considered, fitting a resort pool, pool structure, restaurant, golf starting facilities, walking paths and other sports amenities, all promised by the Developer, onto only 3 acres of land seems to be a tall order

I’ve tried to be transparent in how I arrived at my conclusions. Feel free to change whatever assumptions you’d like and see what conclusions you reach.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

There have been lots of words written recently about the apartments to be built at the Hacienda Hills CC site. How about some arithmetic?

• The 7 acre site has 308,00 sq.ft. of buildable space.
  [•]if we make the assumption that 3 acres of the site will be required for the resort pool, walking trails, and other recreational amenities promised by the Developer, the buildable portion of the site is reduced to 176,000 sf.
  [•]The amount of buildable space will be further reduced by the space required for surface parking for modest landscaping around the new apartment structure, apartment residents’ and guests cars and golf carts. At standard “striping sizes” and assuming 1/4 acre of landscaping, those items require about 75,000 sf, further reducing the buildable space to about 101,000 sf.
  [•]At an average size of 1,200 sf, the 286 apartments will require 343,000 sf. Add in a 20% factor for hallways and other common areas and there will be 412,000 sf under roof. No allocation has been made for the promised restaurant or restaurant parking.

The arithmetic indicates that the new structure will average slightly more than 4 stories in height. If resident parking and a restaurant are added “under roof”, the structure would average closer to 5 stories in height. If parking for the apartments is provided under ground, the height of the structure could be maintained at about 4 stories.

All that arithmetic being considered, fitting a resort pool, pool structure, restaurant, golf starting facilities, walking paths and other sports amenities, all promised by the Developer, onto only 3 acres of land seems to be a tall order

I’ve tried to be transparent in how I arrived at my conclusions. Feel free to change whatever assumptions you’d like and see what conclusions you reach.

I think that your figures are based on how many CAN be built. I think it will be a three storey building much like the Lofts and much like the independent living building next to Bob Evans on 466. Usually figures established tell how many POSSIBLE units and the tallest they CAN be. But you could be right.

But you could be wrong too. We will see. I so hope I am right and everyone will be pleased. I am really worried about these new commissioners and their goals. Having someone in sync with the developer has allowed all permitting and processes to go smoothly, but someone could if they wanted, be obstructive, throw a monkey wrench into that. If it hurts The Villages, it hurts all of us. So far this place has been an enormous success story, building and giving employment to many people. Supporting excellent Charter Schools, keeping restrictions that cause homes to be well kept. There is always an element of politics for and against big business. I worry about the commissioner that switched parties just before he was elected.

I hope that The Villages builds a beautiful building and landscapes it like they always do and have a lovely pool and that older people who want to rent will find a nice place to rent and all this criticism is put to rest.

[birdiebill]

I suspect there will be no where close to 280 apartment units constructed at the HHCC site.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

There have been lots of words written recently about the apartments to be built at the Hacienda Hills CC site. How about some arithmetic?

—The 7 acre site has 308,00 sq.ft. of buildable space.

— If we make a conservative assumption that 3 acres of the site will be required for the resort pool, walking trails, and other recreational amenities promised by the Developer, the buildable portion of the site is reduced to 176,000 sf.

— The amount of buildable space will be further reduced by the space required for surface parking for apartment residents and guests cars and golf carts, and modest landscaping around the building. At standard “striping sizes” and assuming 1/4 acre of landscaping, those items further reduce the buildable surface on the site by about 75,000 sf, further reducing the buildable surface to about 101,000 sf.

— At an average size of 1,200 sf, the 286 apartments will require 343,000 sf. Add in a 20% factor for hallways and other common areas and there will be 412,000 sf under roof. No allocation has been made for the promised restaurant or restaurant parking.

The arithmetic indicates that the new structure will average slightly more than 4 stories in height. If resident parking and a restaurant are added “under roof”, the structure would average closer to 5 stories in height. If parking for the apartments is provided under ground, the height of the structure could be maintained at about 4 stories.

All that arithmetic being considered, fitting a resort pool, pool structure, restaurant, golf starting facilities, walking paths and other sports amenities, all promised by the Developer, onto only 3 acres of land seems to be a tall order

I’ve tried to be transparent in how I arrived at my conclusions. Feel free to change whatever assumptions you’d like and see what conclusions you reach.

Good analysis. On a 7 acre site they could build 7 high end homes at $500,000 each for a total $3,500,000. No need to build a 3 or 4 story monstrosity like The Lofts.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

There have been lots of words written recently about the apartments to be built at the Hacienda Hills CC site. How about some arithmetic?

—The 7 acre site has 308,00 sq.ft. of buildable space.

— If we make a conservative assumption that 3 acres of the site will be required for the resort pool, walking trails, and other recreational amenities promised by the Developer, the buildable portion of the site is reduced to 176,000 sf.

— The amount of buildable space will be further reduced by the space required for surface parking for apartment residents and guests cars and golf carts, and modest landscaping around the building. At standard “striping sizes” and assuming 1/4 acre of landscaping, those items further reduce the buildable surface on the site by about 75,000 sf, further reducing the buildable surface to about 101,000 sf.

— At an average size of 1,200 sf, the 286 apartments will require 343,000 sf. Add in a 20% factor for hallways and other common areas and there will be 412,000 sf under roof. No allocation has been made for the promised restaurant or restaurant parking.

The arithmetic indicates that the new structure will average slightly more than 4 stories in height. If resident parking and a restaurant are added “under roof”, the structure would average closer to 5 stories in height. If parking for the apartments is provided under ground, the height of the structure could be maintained at about 4 stories.

All that arithmetic being considered, fitting a resort pool, pool structure, restaurant, golf starting facilities, walking paths and other sports amenities, all promised by the Developer, onto only 3 acres of land seems to be a tall order

I’ve tried to be transparent in how I arrived at my conclusions. Feel free to change whatever assumptions you’d like and see what conclusions you reach.

Good analysis but a question. Given the water table here is it possible to build a below ground parking garage?

If so think we will build a basement and man cave for me.

[Rga20]

So the 7 high end homes with a 30% margin will generate a littke mire than a million dollars profit...once. At an average of 2000 per month the apartments will generate 6.5M per year...year after year. Even with a larger investment to start the apartments win hands down from a pure dollar perspective.

[billethkid]

Underground parking?

In Florida?

The Villages?

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Rga20

So the 7 high end homes with a 30% margin will generate a littke mire than a million dollars profit...once. At an average of 2000 per month the apartments will generate 6.5M per year...year after year. Even with a larger investment to start the apartments win hands down from a pure dollar perspective.

apples and oranges............comparing gross revenue to gross margin. duh.

[JGVillages]

So how does sink hole insurance work when renting? Does the building owner purchase for the entire building? Do the renters get coverage if their personal property (furniture, cars, golf carts) is damaged or destroyed by sink hole damage? Just curious.

Originally Posted by Rga20

So the 7 high end homes with a 30% margin will generate a littke mire than a million dollars profit...once. At an average of 2000 per month the apartments will generate 6.5M per year...year after year. Even with a larger investment to start the apartments win hands down from a pure dollar perspective.

From a pure dollar perspective turning the golf courses into high rise apartments wins hands down too. But the Villages sold a lifestyle and I think kicking a hornets nest of angry Villagers might not be wise.

[thelegges]

Originally Posted by JGVillages

So how does sink hole insurance work when renting? Does the building owner purchase for the entire building? Do the renters get coverage if their personal property (furniture, cars, golf carts) is damaged or destroyed by sink hole damage? Just curious.

As a renter you insure contents, how it’s destroyed will be in the small print if it’s covered

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by John41

From a pure dollar perspective turning the golf courses into high rise apartments wins hands down too. But the Villages sold a lifestyle and I think kicking a hornets nest of angry Villagers might not be wise.

My suspicion is most will not pay any attention until whatever is going to happen will happen.

[thelegges]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think that your figures are based on how many CAN be built. I think it will be a three storey building much like the Lofts and much like the independent living building next to Bob Evans on 466. Usually figures established tell how many POSSIBLE units and the tallest they CAN be. But you could be right.

But you could be wrong too. We will see. I so hope I am right and everyone will be pleased. I am really worried about these new commissioners and their goals. I worry about the commissioner that switched parties just before he was elected.

At the meeting the apartments could be 4 stories.

But I thought the old commissioners are still in Office, and they were the ones who changed parties. Don’t the new commissionerstake office in November, but I could be wrong

[npwalters]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

There have been lots of words written recently about the apartments to be built at the Hacienda Hills CC site. How about some arithmetic?

—The 7 acre site has 308,00 sq.ft. of buildable space.

— If we make a conservative assumption that 3 acres of the site will be required for the resort pool, walking trails, and other recreational amenities promised by the Developer, the buildable portion of the site is reduced to 176,000 sf.

— The amount of buildable space will be further reduced by the space required for surface parking for apartment residents and guests cars and golf carts, and modest landscaping around the building. At standard “striping sizes” and assuming 1/4 acre of landscaping, those items further reduce the buildable surface on the site by about 75,000 sf, further reducing the buildable surface to about 101,000 sf.

— At an average size of 1,200 sf, the 286 apartments will require 343,000 sf. Add in a 20% factor for hallways and other common areas and there will be 412,000 sf under roof. No allocation has been made for the promised restaurant or restaurant parking.

The arithmetic indicates that the new structure will average slightly more than 4 stories in height. If resident parking and a restaurant are added “under roof”, the structure would average closer to 5 stories in height. If parking for the apartments is provided under ground, the height of the structure could be maintained at about 4 stories.

All that arithmetic being considered, fitting a resort pool, pool structure, restaurant, golf starting facilities, walking paths and other sports amenities, all promised by the Developer, onto only 3 acres of land seems to be a tall order

I’ve tried to be transparent in how I arrived at my conclusions. Feel free to change whatever assumptions you’d like and see what conclusions you reach.

Wow, actual facts and analysis on TOTV! Well done. I tend to use the approved Tennessee definition. They are trying to squeeze 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by npwalters

Wow, actual facts and analysis on TOTV! Well done. .

Don't get too excited.................estimates and assumptions.