As a society the U.S. (Wrongly) has an issue with profiling. Every law enforcement officer who addresses the press must spend hours in front of a mirror saying "we do not profile" without laughing.

In 1999 we went to watch our daughter, a freshman in collage play her first collage soccer game. When the game ended we noticed when she took off her jersey and went to her tank top she was sporting a tattoo on her mid back. Some refer to as a "tramp stamp". She walked across the field to give hugs and as she spoke we noticed she now had a tongue ring. We always encouraged our children to express themselves and said nothing. A couple weeks later, we arrived at home coming and used magnetic studs in our noses. Her father, with his traditional buzz type haircut looked a bit unusual, but I'm certain I looked equally as ridiculous. Her comment was "seriously" and an eye roll. At graduation she walked over to us and before the traditional hugs and kisses, she stuck out her tongue and the tongue jewelry was gone. She is now a teacher and is very cautious when she bends over that her tattoo doesn't show, but is still very proud of the design she drew herself with a Celtic theme showing her heritage.

The tattoo is beautiful and truly shows her creative side and she must cover it up because of perception. It's unfortunate our talented, caring, compassionate daughter is judged by the art work on her body. It's reality and is not going to go away. Our daughter's tattoo is hidden for the most part and in all honesty, we've had multiple discussions with her, and she is thankful she kept her creative expression limited to her mid back. I wonder how many people get the piercings or tattoos when young and then wonder 10 years later, what was I thinking!

In the 1960's the song "Long haired freaky people need not apply" was popular and 50 years later, not too much has changed.

Nice post and what a great sense of humor to turn up in nose studs:icon_wink:! I think I have read somewhere that Kelly Rippa has a rose tat on her ankle, or somewhere, and her Mother also told her that one day it would come back to haunt her, I believe she now spends quite a bit of money either on trying to get it removed by laser or good makeup!

There's no question that some people hide who they are and some people put it out there for all to see.

That has to be one of the most misunderstood quotes from The Bible. Matthew was talking about the final judgement, saying that humans cannot judge is another man is going to heaven. We really can't tell what is in another man's heart.

As I said, judging people is one thing and judging actions is another. What do you have to say about a man that rapes a nine year old girl, or someone that murders a family because they thought it would be fun? Should we not judge those actions? Should we not say that those people did bad things? Can we not make a reasonable assumption that someone who continues to do bad things and has no remorse is a bad person?

Sometimes a person will commit an atrocity and later come to see the light and regret that deed or perhaps there was some kind of emotional or mental issue going on at the time for which the person has gotten help. In those cases, we might say that the person did something terrible, but because he shows remorse and is truly sorry or was somehow inflicted at the time, he is not a bad person. It was simply a mistake.

Are we not passing judgement in any of these cases? Can we not judge people to be fine upstanding people?

Matthew 7:1-3 is one of the most misunderstood passages in The Bible. Unfortunately, people use it to excuse all kinds of bad behavior. We all judge every day and it is not wrong to do so.

If I can comment upon the constant misuse and misapplication of what Jesus actually said? The full text is in the Gospel of Saint Matthew and is part of the "Sermon on the Mount."

It is not a call to moral relativism - don't judge anyone, and so on. That is an illogical position since one is then passing judgement on others passing judgement.

Jesus never ever said to refrain from judgement! (Go teach all nations… and teach them to observe what you teach [paraphrase] Also, when he sent the apostles out two by two prior to His death, he told them to 'kick the dust off their sandals" and move on when any town did not accept their teachings.

If one judges, be prepared to have God (not other people) judge you by the same measure.

A lot different from a blanket prohibition arising out of a mistaken use/reading of Sacred Scripture.

I hope I remember His teaching.

(Edited - I apologize for not having read Winston Boogie's excellent post of this a.m. before I posted. He says it much better than I.)

There are tattoos and then there are tattoos, There is cleavage, and then there is cleavage. There is makeup and then there is makeup. There is jewelry and then there is jewelry, there is perfume and then there is perfume, there are bathing suits and then there are bathing suits.

How we present ourselves with decoration tells a story. With some it is a lovely story, with others a mystery, and for others it is a for sale sign..

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and is an overall affect. Dolly Parton used her cleavage to draw attention to herself but that couldn't cover her sweetness, charm and warmth. She was never tawdry to me.

I think what is being discussed is how people of our age might perceive that another is dangerous or at least suspicious.

I do profile. Most people do. They should. We cannot defend ourselves or run as fast as we once could. We have to make judgments about others on their appearance. It would be dangerous not too.

But I frequently profile when I look into a crinkly pair of older eyes smiling at me too.

We all judge people on some level whether it is conscious, or not.

When deciding if someone is to be a friend or not, to being on the street and see someone, who may alarm us. In a perfect world, no one would judge another person.

GOD does not judge a person till the end of his/her days, who are we, to judge? Dale Carnegie

Well said. Yes, I guess we all profile to a certain extent. I'm just uncomfortable when I feel it's being over done.
I was with some one a few weeks ago. She saw a gal with a tongue piercing and said "what a piece of trash." I said she is one of the nicest people I know. The person I was with then said "I wouldn't even want to know her."
Yes, we have to be aware of the people around us. Just remember how handsome Ted Bundy was. We never know.

I am so lucky to live here with people like y'all.:a040:

One of the loveliest guys I ever knew had a skull on the side of his neck, tongue piercing, eyebrow piercings and a bunch of other garbage on his body. He also had a teardrop by his eye. Most of you would have run from him (he wasn't a small guy). He did not know the teardrop signified a murder. He had it put there for all the tears he had shed for those he had lost.

He never had a great-paying job. Didn't want one. As he put it, he made enough to get by and enjoyed his life. He never seemed to envy those who had more and tried to help those who had less.

I will admit I was uncomfortable looking at all of his mutilations but I am so thankful I got to know the person behind all of that mess. He was the one who would always be there to lend a hand, the first to help anyone in need, the most gentle soul I've ever met. I was so fortunate to have him in my life.

The innate nature of man is "flight or fight" sight sound feel touch smell work on a continuum and are changed and reinforced with experiences. My life's work taught me that first impressions did influence me and if I was to remain objective in my work I needed to test those first impressions.

My friends and I grew up influenced by those clean cut collegiate types sharps creases in our slacks izod shirts white and black saddles, etc. We rejected the black leather jacket long side burn types.

It came as a pleasant surprise when a personal situation brought me in contact with a black guy with braids tats, piercings. I found the guy to be genuine kind ,considerate, intelligent. We embraced after this encounter
Yet i agree if you saw that guy in an alley way you would have been quite concerned for your safety and the flight/fight stimulus would have kicked in

As a 15 year old I would walk across a railroad bridge nightly to my now wife's home. In the thick of the greenery were hobo's . I got in the habit of stopping to talk with them and sharing my cigarettes. One night John one of the hobo's I knew best confronted me his eyes burned bright red and I knew it meant danger. I had to thread my way over the train track to escape John. John was found two months later floating face down in the canal below these train tracks

I always told my children to trust their instinct. If you get a felling in your belly or something tells you you're uncomfortable trust it. I live by that myself. While I don't like some of the "tats" or rings etc. I go by that feeling I get as to weather someone is "not ok" to be around more than anything.
I also do a lot of family history and one of the things I have to keep in mind is the "thinking of that period of time" and not todays. For instance what we knew medically back then, the politics and belief systems etc. Which makes family stories even more interesting.

LOL I asked my kids to imagine if they're mother had the peace sign or l o v e tattooed on her knuckles and how that might look now. Hummm maybe I will. "What NO!!" They all said. I also said that the only thing they should ever consider might be the word "mom" as her love would always be in style, but that they could say it was supposed to say "wow" and they were drunk and put it on upside down.
The result is no tatt's, hummmm. Lol, which had more effect, could have been the "stupid" ones some of their friends got more then anything. Someday I'll ask them as i'm sure in reality it had little if anything to do with me. till then I can dream.

I always wanted to get my pets pawprints over my heart, then I realized that I have lost so many over the years there wouldn't be room. Never did it and wouldn't you know as you get older the "billboard" area got bigger but I guess they'd no longer be over my heart-LOL. I don't think pawprints on my midsection would have the same effect.

I find service tats very sexy, back in the day I went out with a guy who had been in Airborne and had a small parachute guy.

[quote=Pointer;946068]I always told my children to trust their instinct. If you get a felling in your belly or something tells you

Trusting your instincts.

A handsome young man came to the Reebok booth at The National Sporting Goods Show in Atlanta. He was handed to me because he was from Ohio and that was the territory I represented for Reebok Clothing.. He told me to be in Columbus at nine on the next Monday and threw down his card and left. He came across as very arrogant and far from polite. I didn't like him. He owned several "Just Sweats" stores with his partner, a man called Hanson.

I braved a serious snow storm to drive from Cincinnati to Columbus, I arrived at nine, and was told to wait. I was shown into his office at shortly after one in the afternoon. I was steaming. The interview went downhill from there and he said he expected advertising money, returns, and a lot of extras. I said that would depend of course on the amount of business we could do together, (the usual negotiating argument.) He said "when you deal with me, you do it my way" I had a product that was much in demand at the time and I was steamed and I made the call to say, I don't think we can do business at this time and rolled my apparel rack out and left.

His name was John Hawkins and a couple of months later he would become nationally famous and on the national most wanted list involved with murder and an insurance scam. He was finally caught, I think in Europe somewhere.


Notorious Swindler Recounts Notorious

In our culture hair length, hair color or whatever someone does with their nails never bothered me. It sends the message, here is where I am right now. I get it. I've been there.

It's all wallpaper. I wouldn't pick out the same wallpaper today I hung 30 years ago.

All of the other kookiness that can't be changed, sends the message I will never change. Their thinking is too closed minded for me.

[I did not read all of the posts before I gave my opinion. I would like apologise to anyone who loves someone that has tattoos and piercings. It was selfish of me.]

It's hard to judge a book by it's cover now a days and if we don't rely on our instinct and fight or flight messages we can easily find ourselves in trouble. I have always relied on that little inner voice for direction. So far it hasn't failed me. Some people by the way they present themselves give the impression of danger. Then there are those like the Ted Bundys of the world where you hope your inner voice sends you that message to stay clear.

40 Amazing Face Tattoo Designs

Some of these are interesting facial tattoos. I suppose if I were at some 20 something targeted concert I would have a more open approach to seeing a tattoo like some of these.

Uncanny story...
In the early 70's we had a new girl start working where I worked. She was loud, nasty & mean and none of us liked her. We used to kid and tell each other she was probably a murderer.
She worked there for about a month and left. We laughed and said she was probably in prison.
2 months later I had to go to court for my divorce. All of a sudden I heard the judge call her name. Her lawyer was there asking for more time.
She was accused along with her mother of trying to kill her husband !!

I form an impression of a person when I see them, but it can be subject to change. I tend to judge a person when I hear what they have to say, and that can be more difficult to change.

The tats, piercings and gauges are definitley a generational thing. I am amazed at how many folks will immediately dismiss someone for any of these. Do you know how many of your doctors, nurses fireman, emts, teachers lawyers are tatted these days? You just can't always see them. I know of at least five pastors with tattoos. "Don't judge a book by it's cover. You may be on chapter two, they may be on chapter twenty-two."

Just curious, if you needed a good doctor and heard the best person around was in Orlando. But when you went to see him he was all tatted up. You would go to a different doctor????
How about your fireman that comes to save your house, are waiting for one without piercings or tattoos?

I do not care what a lawyer, veterinarian, doctor, policeman, or fireman looks like. Just if that person is good at their job.

Some of the nurses at the Villages Regional Hospital seemed to have tattoos of various kinds and all of these did there job well.

I do care what a lawyer looks like, I want someone who looks professional, can think on his feet and is dressed traditionally. I once reprimanded my attorney for wearing a pea green suit.

Did he get you off??

I am a firm believer that stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason.

The generational thing is what you're pushing. YOU are the age of my children and our children and their spouses and their friends and their business associates aren't tattooed or pierced, and neither are our grandchildren. Neither are our siblings children and grandchildren. Neither are all cousins and their children and grandchildren, nor were our neighbors back in Ohio who are your age nor their children

It is something else, but it isn't generational.

Our grandchildren, siblings.

:1rotfl:
http://lowres.cartoonstock.com/recru...an1503_low.jpg

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If this guy was sitting at the town square with is machete. Would you judge him. Nothing he is doing is illegal.

A lot of legal work never gets done in a courtroom. Any smart lawyer would not want to anger the judge and/or jury she might get. I would expect that if you hired a law firm with a good reputation that they would have a trial lawyer who looked like someone a jury and or judge would like.

I meant say a lawyer for a will or something like that. If she has a nose piercing while doing routine stuff in her office, it would not bother me that much.

I got a postcard from one of the best trial lawyers in the country when I was looking for help with my 224 613 Project. This is Gerry Spence. Google him. I will put up his picture some time. http://www.spencelawyers.com/attorne...erry-l-spence/

onslowe: your story brought me back to a time when my friend his wife mine and me traveled from upstate to attend the Yankee/Red Socks double header. My friend had a new Cadillac that he was very protective of and so arrnaged for overnight stay i White Plains. We took the train from there to Yankee Stadium.

When we entered the train at White Plains the train was bare at the next stop people boarded but crowded around us and this same scenario repeated it self for a good number of stops. I found this behavior to be peculiar until i recognized the social-economic change the closer we came to the inner city in passengers and now realized what the people in White Plains had done and probably did every day

Pea soup suit I unloaded. The traditional one I spent five years with.

Nose ring girl could remove it for the office, they make you do that at Starbucks, so why not a law firm?

Yes, Gerry Spence is considered one of the best trial lawyers, I'm sure he didn't look like a facacta mess starting out.

I don't care if it doesn't show, I don't even care about an arm tat, we started out talking extremes with face and neck tats and now we're talking Spence's hair.

Gerry Spence what a piece of work the master of illusion a real foxhedge

?? What's a "foxhedge"? ??:confused:

He looks like we could use him here. Perhaps the "brass nuckle" guy could use him. In all seriousness I know of him from living out west. He has a great rep.

You are exactly right.

Hi KayakerNC Its the best of a fox and a hedgehog at being crafty the fox seen as multitasking the hedgehog dogging one thing but doing it well

Thanks Rubicon, I'd never heard that term before. :ho: