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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   I Oppose Raising Road Impact Fees (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/i-oppose-raising-road-impact-fees-315089/)

biker1 01-20-2021 06:18 AM

You can choose to believe that voting for those specific candidates was a guarantee that the 25% increase in the County Tax millage rate would be rolled back in favor of the equivalent impact fee but it is not reasonable to do so. It was a campaign promise that they may or may not be able to keep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1889929)

In any event, the issue of replacing the 25% tax hike with reasonable impact fees was decided in the last election by a 2-to-1 margin. We wouldn't be reexamining the issue now if Mr. Estep had not reneged on his campaign pledge.


golfing eagles 01-20-2021 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 1889932)
Well than, that begs the obvious question. Why do they go to such painstaking measures to control the governing bodies to insure that passing on impact fees will not be an issue, among other things?

I don't know, but that's probably because I don't have the ability to read minds or jump to conclusions, unlike some posters on this thread

Advogado 01-20-2021 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 1889948)
You can choose to believe that voting for those specific candidates was a guarantee that the 25% increase in the County Tax millage rate would be rolled back in favor of the equivalent impact fee but it is not reasonable to do so. It was a campaign promise that they may or may not be able to keep.

No, it was a campaign promise that can easily be kept. How can you seriously argue to the contrary?

True, whether 100% REPEAL of the property tax hike is possible (maybe even more) can only be calculated once an impact study on infrastructure besides roads is completed. But there is absolutely no doubt that a ROLLBACK is possible simply by ending the sweetheart road impact fee-- raising it from 40% to 100% of the amount calculated by the 2019 road-impact-fee study. Only Mr. Estep's joining with the Developer's puppets, Gilpin and Breeden, has prevented that from happening.

Again, this whole issue was already determined by a huge majority of the voters last year. Only Mr. Estep's succumbing to the Developer's effort to subvert the voters' will is causing it to be argued now.

biker1 01-20-2021 08:41 AM

No, it was a campaign promise that they might be able to keep. No guarantees, not all promises are kept by politicians. As I have asked you before, provide the numbers to prove that this promise (a complete rollback of the 25% increase in the County Tax millage rate) can be kept. Also, no issue was determined by the election, with the possible exception of the fact that the voters appeared to be fed up with perceived arrogance of the incumbents. So, what is your exact point? That some rollback is possible or a complete rollback is possible? By your own admission, a study needs to be done. If this is true, how can the newly elected challengers have made a promise without that study? If the impact fees are not increased to allow for some minor rollback then I think you have a point and the newly elected challengers may not be reelected. I think we are in agreement with the exception of the fact that I allow for the possibility that what they promised they cannot deliver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1890050)
No, it was a campaign promise that can easily be kept. How can you seriously argue to the contrary?

True, whether 100% REPEAL of the property tax hike is possible (maybe even more) can only be calculated once an impact study on infrastructure besides roads is completed. But there is absolutely no doubt that a ROLLBACK is possible simply by ending the sweetheart road impact fee-- raising it from 40% to 100% of the amount calculated by the 2019 road-impact-fee study. Only Mr. Estep's joining with the Developer's puppets, Gilpin and Breeden, has prevented that from happening.

Again, this whole issue was already determined by a huge majority of the voters last year. Only Mr. Estep's succumbing to the Developer's effort to subvert the voters' will is causing it to be argued now.


kappy 01-20-2021 08:44 AM

Even if raising the impact fees now will not generate enough new revenue to allow a full 25% roll back this tax year, it is still the right thing to do. The increased costs associated with any new development should be borne by the people who are getting the benefits of that new development. That is, the new homeowners, not homeowners who have already paid for the roads that they are using. Notice I didn’t say for all the costs of the new development such as; libraries, schools, fire stations, additional police, etc. Those costs are not even used in calculating the impact fees in Sumter County. The current impact fees were established from a 2019 study which only took into account the additional road costs due to the new development. And then the County Commissioners gave the developer a 60% discount. Why? Because they can. If the impact fee calculation does not even utilize all the costs generated by the new development, it should at least help pay for some of the costs at the 100% impact fee rate.

kkingston57 01-20-2021 11:47 AM

This is the best reasonable explanation that I have read, regarding this issue.

Aloha1 01-20-2021 04:48 PM

Goldwingnut; Thank you for a cogent and concise post. You speak fact and truth as opposed to hyperbola.

Aloha1 01-20-2021 04:55 PM

One item left out of this discussion is that of the fiduciary responsibility of the Sumter Commissioners. They have a LEGAL obligation to not make financial decisions that would damage the County. Failure to do so is a chargeable crime punishable by imprisonment.
I suggest they tread carefully, LEARN all the facets of the budget, current and planned fiscal needs, and not listen the mob. Act appropriately after you learn your preconceived ideas may not have been right.

Bilyclub 01-20-2021 05:44 PM

I think some people forgot that the old board lowered the millage rate in 2020 by what they claimed to be 4%. They were hoping that would appease the voters, it didn't work.
Sumter County's proposal would lower the millage rate from 6.7000 to 6.4309.

dewilson58 01-20-2021 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilyclub (Post 1890311)
I think some people forgot that the old board lowered the millage rate in 2020 by what they claimed to be 4%.


And the three newbies promised reversing the 25%, so we are all are going to get almost a 30% reduction. :a040: Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Goldwingnut 01-20-2021 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilyclub (Post 1890311)
I think some people forgot that the old board lowered the millage rate in 2020 by what they claimed to be 4%. They were hoping that would appease the voters, it didn't work.
Sumter County's proposal would lower the millage rate from 6.7000 to 6.4309.

This was the “roll back rate”. Per the Sumter county commissioners this is neither a rate increase or a rate decrease. Every if it is a decrease the 3 stooges promised to roll back the rate 25%. Let’s see them deliver! My money is on them being clueless about what they promised and they’ll be eating crow come September.

Advogado 01-20-2021 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrandall (Post 1887478)
As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

A simple question to jrandall and to the other posters who argue that the Developer's sweetheart road-impact fee should not be increased and property taxes rolled back correspondingly: Do you believe that the Developer OR the current residents should pay for the roads and other county infrastructure (like police stations, fire stations, jails, equipment, etc.) necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages?

Right now, thanks to the Developer's sweetheart impact fee set by his puppet County Commissioners, the current residents are paying for the great majority of it.

kappy 01-20-2021 11:00 PM

The 2020 rate reduction was due to the increase in revenue because of all the new homes that were built. That reduction is what we had been seeing for all the years prior to the 2019 increase. It happened automatically when each year saw more and more homes built in the County; mostly by the developer. Those new homes did not cause road infrastructure costs since the roads were still the responsibility of the developer and had not been turned over to the County. You cannot give the former County Commissioners credit for the rate reductions in all those years. More tax revenue from more new homes without incurring new costs equals the ability to lower the tax rate each year.

Northwoods 01-21-2021 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 1889931)
These new county commissioners have promised something that they can't keep. The county is growing and there are services that are expected and go along with the increased population, which are they going to cut? Library hours? Police and fire service? the county services offices hours? wages? do any one of them have the backbone to make the hard and unpopular decisions? doubtful.

What exactly have they found now that they are in office that they can cut to recover the 25% increase? My guess is NOTHING! They are getting ready to go into the most shocking part of their new positions, the budget season, and the realities of operating a county of this size.

The budget process started tonight at their workshop. They were presented with information about county salaries for the workers. About a 4% increase across the board is proposed. All in about $2,200,000 increase in wages. This doesn't include any new hires, just increases for the current workers. Do they have the backbone to say no pay raises this year to the county workers? once again, doubtful. They can save 15% of the proposed increase in one quick and easy step, all they need do is forego their salaries and benefits, that'll save over $300K per year. Will they do that? keep dreaming!

The real test of their integrity will be in September when the final budget is decided, and the residents of Sumter County find out that they can't deliver on their rhetoric of the last two years; will they fortitude and the integrity to stand up at the board meeting and say to the public:
"We were wrong, we didn't know what we were talking about, we can't cut the budget."
Dream on!

Half of the 25% increase could have been given back in the most recent budget, but it wasn't, it was squandered by every department in the county with 10-20% budget increases that didn't exist in the previous year's 5-year proforma budget projections. They could have started setting money aside for upcoming maintenance and been prepared, instead of ignoring it like they did the previous 14 years. But nope, every department all of a sudden needed new computers, and tools, and other "stuff" since the money was there. The first rule of government budgeting is "if you have the money, spend it, don't give it back to the taxpayers".

As far as the South Sumter county resident expecting pools, town squares, and many of the other niceties that exist in The Villages, they are in for a shock, it's not going to happen, the county doesn't have the money for it. The county didn't build and provide all these nice things in The Villages, the residents did, by buying homes from the developer who invested of that money back into their development to make it what it is; the residents did when they paid their infrastructure bonds on every new home. The Villages isn't what it is because the county spent taxpayer money on these things, it is what it is because we, you, I and every other resident in The Villages invested our hard-earned money into it when we bought our homes. There're no free rides happening here. Each community must invest in itself if they want something better.

What a refreshing, honest assessment of the current situation.
Hope the current commissioners read this.....

Northwoods 01-21-2021 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 1890070)
No, it was a campaign promise that they might be able to keep. No guarantees, not all promises are kept by politicians. As I have asked you before, provide the numbers to prove that this promise (a complete rollback of the 25% increase in the County Tax millage rate) can be kept. Also, no issue was determined by the election, with the possible exception of the fact that the voters appeared to be fed up with perceived arrogance of the incumbents. So, what is your exact point? That some rollback is possible or a complete rollback is possible? By your own admission, a study needs to be done. If this is true, how can the newly elected challengers have made a promise without that study? If the impact fees are not increased to allow for some minor rollback then I think you have a point and the newly elected challengers may not be reelected. I think we are in agreement with the exception of the fact that I allow for the possibility that what they promised they cannot deliver.

Their whole campaign was "roll back the 25% tax increase." And you're saying "No guarantees"? Seriously?


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