[Bilyclub]

Don't forget who owns that brand spanking new industrial park just East of I-75.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

And again, existing businesses will not be affected by increasing the impact fee UNLESS it is accompanied by a decrease in the property tax which would only make my sandwich even cheaper.

Yes, an existing business desiring to open a new location would pay more at the new location. It would remain to be seen whether higher costs at a new location would lead to increased prices at an existing location.

It is the responsibility of the business owner to review all of the costs for operating the business and decides if he can make a reasonable profit at the location.

If we see very few people leasing property it will be obvious that impact fees are too high and they can always be adjusted.

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

It is the responsibility of the business owner to review all of the costs for operating the business and decides if he can make a reasonable profit at the location.

If we see very few people leasing property it will be obvious that impact fees are too high and they can always be adjusted.

Or the developers leases are too costly which is why a lot of commercial property North of 44 is undeveloped. Also the developer insists on being able to review the books of the business something Costco will not permit.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by John41

Or the developers leases are too costly which is why a lot of commercial property North of 44 is undeveloped. Also the developer insists on being able to review the books of the business something Costco will not permit.

Where is this undeveloped property?
Costco would never consider building within The Villages for many other reasons.

Originally Posted by angiefox10

Please share this so people can understand what is going on. Thank you....

The Daily Fun decided to post yet again their propaganda so I feel compelled to post yet again the truth.

The sky is NOT falling.

My sources tell me those trucks setting out there during the meeting…. They are brand new trucks purchased to the tune of $500,000 each bought with our tax dollars. It’s estimated that the villages spent 50 Million just last year on new “stuff” and the new building on 470. Which sources tell me is only going to be there for about five years since they plan on putting homes there in five years.

One of the many emails I received…the one that said it best….

“My husband is an employee of one of the Villages subsidiaries. He, along with MANY of his co-workers were strongly urged, and in a lot of cases "expected" to park their work trucks in that parking lot and sit through that meeting. My husband had NO IDEA what any of that was about. It wasn’t until he sent me pictures of the parking lot that I even understood where he was or what "meeting" he had been ordered to attend. He doesn't involve himself in politics at all. He had no idea what he was doing. Other than simply, "reporting for duty for some overtime pay". . He was told if "it" goes thru, they may all be without jobs.”

So… most of the people in that room were paid to be there. Overtime pay. And threatened with jobs if “it” goes through.

Look folks. The Commissioners are NOT raising the taxes on the people. They are raising the impact fees on the developers so they can lower the taxes on the residents giving you and I more money to spend in the stores that they would like to say that will suffer.

Can you explain to me how a restaurant like Blue Fin can suffer from us having more money in our pockets? The shops are not developers and are NOT paying more to the county as the Daily Fun would have people believe. The only way this affects the shops is that we have more pocket money to spend in their stores


If we reduce every property owner’s real estate taxes, maybe they could spend the extra money and help put the 2,000 unemployed people in Sumter County back to work.

Remember when the Daily Fun told us the villages wouldn’t build any farther than 466A? And it did. Remember when The Daily Fun said they wouldn’t build past 44? And they did. Now they want you to believe if they have to pay their fair share and pay for the infrastructure that is actually part of THEIR development then the whole economy will suffer? True, they won’t make the profit on the homes that they were making. I think I read it’s about $1,400 for a $250,000 home. (Which they will pass on to the buyer, bless their hearts). But they will continue building. This is the golden egg. They will continue to build.

The people who were at that meeting never voted for the new commissioners in the first place. Those were the Villages subsidiaries… They don’t care if the taxes go up to build the streets in The Village… They have the money to pay it. They have our money!

Where I come from, when something like The Villages is being built bringing in MORE taxes, our taxes usually go down, NOT up! And to say they haven’t gone up in years so it’s OK… NO, it’s NOT OK. There was no need for the taxes to go up in the first place AND there is more to Sumter County than The Villages. There are roads and infrastructure in South Sumter that need work. We live in a beautiful county. It’s time we have commissioners who care about the whole county and work for ALL the residents and not just the developers. Isn’t that what they promised to do? Isn’t that what they ran on?

The Daily Fun was nice enough to post this picture of their trucks blocking the parking spaces so the residents couldn't get in.

The most accurate post yet.

[ton80]

To understand what the impacts are we need to consider real numbers showing what the annual costs are. Percentages can be very misleading unless they are completely applied correctly. Percentages are often used selectively to distort the true impacts for the presenter's own purposes.

IMO, I believe that the real issue is not simply that the Developer got a sweet deal, but where is Sumter County spending all of the increased ad valorem tax revenue.

The following values come from the Sumter County Budget:

1. Ad valorem Taxes Revenues in FY 2019= 58.8 M$
2. in FY 2020 = 82.1 M$
This an increase of 33.3 M $ EVERY YEAR FORWARD. This increase is a combination effect of increased assessed value (2100 new homes in TV and about 400 outside TV) and increased ad valorem property tax rate

3. No impact fees schedule was shown in in the budget.
The budget indicates 2100 Homes built in the villages that fiscal year. To illustrate the one-time cost of raising the impact fee I will use examples of incremental cost
$1,000 increase in impact fee generates 2.1 M$ for one year
$2,000 increase in impact fee generates 4.2M$ for one year

The reduced impact fee amount is not the cause for the enormous ad valorem property tax increase.

Looking further in the budget, the section on outstanding debt shows the debt going from about $!00M to about 20 M$ in 2032. This is a factor. I did not try to look at the additional projects and additional employee costs, etc.

I agree that the Developer and all other Developers should pay their full share. $1,000 or 2,000 more will have little effect on selling new homes.
Increasing the property tax rates has a larger effect. The ad valorem tax increased from 5.35 mils to 6.43 mils. The total tax rate went from 11 mils to 12 mils call it 1.2% on the assessed value of your house.
200K house x .0012 = $240 $ per year increase
400 K $480 per year ETC

In addition the new homes have increased bonds with relatively high interest rates that add to the new home owners costs. These two costs have a much bigger impact than a 1,000 or 2,000 higher selling price.

The real question is: Where is the extra $33M per year going? Remember this amount will keep increasing each year because more homes are being built unless the tax rates are decreased.

The Commissioners can do us a real service by concentrating on ensuring that the tax revenues are used wisely. If the costs are contained and funds accumulate, tax rates should get reduced. IMHO, if they get a increased impact fee it is helpful a bit, but it is a small effect.

Originally Posted by ton80

To understand what the impacts are we need to consider real numbers showing what the annual costs are. Percentages can be very misleading unless they are completely applied correctly. Percentages are often used selectively to distort the true impacts for the presenter's own purposes.

IMO, I believe that the real issue is not simply that the Developer got a sweet deal, but where is Sumter County spending all of the increased ad valorem tax revenue.

The following values come from the Sumter County Budget:

1. Ad valorem Taxes Revenues in FY 2019= 58.8 M$
2. in FY 2020 = 82.1 M$
This an increase of 33.3 M $ EVERY YEAR FORWARD. This increase is a combination effect of increased assessed value (2100 new homes in TV and about 400 outside TV) and increased ad valorem property tax rate

3. No impact fees schedule was shown in in the budget.
The budget indicates 2100 Homes built in the villages that fiscal year. To illustrate the one-time cost of raising the impact fee I will use examples of incremental cost
$1,000 increase in impact fee generates 2.1 M$ for one year
$2,000 increase in impact fee generates 4.2M$ for one year

The reduced impact fee amount is not the cause for the enormous ad valorem property tax increase.

Looking further in the budget, the section on outstanding debt shows the debt going from about $!00M to about 20 M$ in 2032. This is a factor. I did not try to look at the additional projects and additional employee costs, etc.

I agree that the Developer and all other Developers should pay their full share. $1,000 or 2,000 more will have little effect on selling new homes.
Increasing the property tax rates has a larger effect. The ad valorem tax increased from 5.35 mils to 6.43 mils. The total tax rate went from 11 mils to 12 mils call it 1.2% on the assessed value of your house.
200K house x .0012 = $240 $ per year increase
400 K $480 per year ETC

In addition the new homes have increased bonds with relatively high interest rates that add to the new home owners costs. These two costs have a much bigger impact than a 1,000 or 2,000 higher selling price.

The real question is: Where is the extra $33M per year going? Remember this amount will keep increasing each year because more homes are being built unless the tax rates are decreased.

The Commissioners can do us a real service by concentrating on ensuring that the tax revenues are used wisely. If the costs are contained and funds accumulate, tax rates should get reduced. IMHO, if they get a increased impact fee it is helpful a bit, but it is a small effect.

That $240 property tax increase on the 70,000 Sumter households is $14 million out of their pockets, and subsequently $14million less revenue for the businesses North of 44.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Aloha1

If indeed, a small business leases instead of building, how do you think the builder recoups his cost? Higher lease costs, which may make that small business financially unable to afford the lease. And yes, higher taxes which the small business pays, not the builder. Enjoy your cheap sandwich while you can.

I have the distinct feeling that the Morse Family has a pretty good idea of how to handle their financial interests. If they price their business space too high, they won't get anyone to rent. They won't be pricing themselves out of tenants.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by ton80

The real question is: Where is the extra $33M per year going? Remember this amount will keep increasing each year because more homes are being built unless the tax rates are decreased.

The Commissioners can do us a real service by concentrating on ensuring that the tax revenues are used wisely. If the costs are contained and funds accumulate, tax rates should get reduced. IMHO, if they get a increased impact fee it is helpful a bit, but it is a small effect.

If funds accumulate, that means they're no longer in debt. That's a good thing. Right now Sumter County is in the red. They have spent, and spent, whether wisely or not, doesn't even matter anymore. What matters is that they have debts. A city with debts is a city that has to make up the loss, and has to get the money from somewhere. Part of the cost of being a municipality needs to include a buffer - call it a roof fund, or a rainy day fund, or "reserves."

Reserves are used when expenses occur that weren't part of any other line-item on the budget. Such as hurricane damage repair expenses. Or sink-hole expenses. Or heck - if there's a fire at one of the municipal buildings. Or some emergency that requires the use of the county sheriff's department to spring into overtime pay.

That's what reserves are for. Many municipalities in the country don't put much emphasis on reserves, they'd rather keep taxes low and create the facade of being good to homeowners. But then when there's an emergency, they have to scramble to find the funds to pay to resolve it or risk their bond rating taking a dive.

[Bilyclub]

Originally Posted by ton80

To understand what the impacts are we need to consider real numbers showing what the annual costs are. Percentages can be very misleading unless they are completely applied correctly. Percentages are often used selectively to distort the true impacts for the presenter's own purposes.

IMO, I believe that the real issue is not simply that the Developer got a sweet deal, but where is Sumter County spending all of the increased ad valorem tax revenue.

The following values come from the Sumter County Budget:

1. Ad valorem Taxes Revenues in FY 2019= 58.8 M$
2. in FY 2020 = 82.1 M$
This an increase of 33.3 M $ EVERY YEAR FORWARD. This increase is a combination effect of increased assessed value (2100 new homes in TV and about 400 outside TV) and increased ad valorem property tax rate

3. No impact fees schedule was shown in in the budget.
The budget indicates 2100 Homes built in the villages that fiscal year. To illustrate the one-time cost of raising the impact fee I will use examples of incremental cost
$1,000 increase in impact fee generates 2.1 M$ for one year
$2,000 increase in impact fee generates 4.2M$ for one year

The reduced impact fee amount is not the cause for the enormous ad valorem property tax increase.

Looking further in the budget, the section on outstanding debt shows the debt going from about $!00M to about 20 M$ in 2032. This is a factor. I did not try to look at the additional projects and additional employee costs, etc.

I agree that the Developer and all other Developers should pay their full share. $1,000 or 2,000 more will have little effect on selling new homes.
Increasing the property tax rates has a larger effect. The ad valorem tax increased from 5.35 mils to 6.43 mils. The total tax rate went from 11 mils to 12 mils call it 1.2% on the assessed value of your house.
200K house x .0012 = $240 $ per year increase
400 K $480 per year ETC

In addition the new homes have increased bonds with relatively high interest rates that add to the new home owners costs. These two costs have a much bigger impact than a 1,000 or 2,000 higher selling price.

The real question is: Where is the extra $33M per year going? Remember this amount will keep increasing each year because more homes are being built unless the tax rates are decreased.

The Commissioners can do us a real service by concentrating on ensuring that the tax revenues are used wisely. If the costs are contained and funds accumulate, tax rates should get reduced. IMHO, if they get a increased impact fee it is helpful a bit, but it is a small effect.

I thought the tax increase was to pay for the roads South of 44. The county agreed to let the developer build the roads and then the county would reimburse them. Instead of getting bids for the work.

[big guy]

If the builder's dump trucks were the only ones to pay the impact fee, most of the battle would be won.

[Happydaz]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I have the distinct feeling that the Morse Family has a pretty good idea of how to handle their financial interests. If they price their business space too high, they won't get anyone to rent. They won't be pricing themselves out of tenants.

As far as “They won’t be pricing themselves out of tenants,” this may not always be true. The Lofts apartments at Brownwood are an example where they have not rented out even half of the units. Prices are steep for these apartments and garage space is extra. Just take a drive by these apartments and see how little activity is going on.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

As far as “They won’t be pricing themselves out of tenants,” this may not always be true. The Lofts apartments at Brownwood are an example where they have not rented out even half of the units. Prices are steep for these apartments and garage space is extra. Just take a drive by these apartments and see how little activity is going on.

Hmmm. Those lofts are such a failure that they are building more of them south of 44 and at Hacienda Hills. Wow, those billionaire Morse's are stupid business people, duplicating failure on a massive scale

BTW, do you have a source for stating Brownwood is less than 1/2 rented?? Last I saw there were no more units available, and that was months ago.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Bilyclub

I thought the tax increase was to pay for the roads South of 44. The county agreed to let the developer build the roads and then the county would reimburse them. Instead of getting bids for the work.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by BiPartisan

Perhaps based on the present tax base you are perhaps correct. But adding 100,000 new homes at an average of $3000 in annual property tax the new base is increased by $300,000,000. Not to include the increase in sales tax and gas tax... Also, the development is not just residential, there is a lot of new commercial as well.

& if 1,000,000 new homes @ $8000 tax per home, the total is $8,000,000,000.
pointless.