Independent Fire District Cost Impact Information

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  #91  
Old 09-19-2022, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenswing View Post
Because the current ambulance transport provider (AMR) didn’t have enough resources dedicated to the county. I think Don said that they only had 7 or 8 county wide. The Villages Public Safety Department has purchased 12 new ambulances. Of those, nine will be front line units with 3 used as spares. The County has also purchased, I think 12 ambulances. So you can see that county wide we’re going from about 7 available ambulances to around twenty or so. I would say it’s fair to assume we’ll see higher fire costs. We just tripled the number of ambulances we’ll have. I’ll happily pay the increase to insure my loved one and neighbors can get to the hospital in a reasonable time.
Agree, many Villages have resident purchased defibrillators which are less effective with delayed ambulance response times.

Do I understand correctly ambulances will replace the existing Villages EMT vehicles and use existing staff?
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Old 09-19-2022, 06:42 PM
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Agree, many Villages have resident purchased defibrillators which are less effective with delayed ambulance response times.

Do I understand correctly ambulances will replace the existing Villages EMT vehicles and use existing staff?
Our village has ordered defibrillators and trained about 100 responders. Our defibrillators are on back order due to supply chain issues.

From what I understand they will be eliminating the quick response units (pickup trucks) we called them aid cars, and replacing them with the ambulances. They are already paramedic staffed as are the engines so other than apparatus familiarization it should be a pretty seamless transition. I’m not sure what the situation is with the county as far as manpower and training.
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Old 09-27-2022, 01:23 PM
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Default Independent Fire District Cost Impact Information

any update info on Independent Fire District Cost Impact Information. i
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Old 10-15-2022, 09:13 AM
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This is a very long post on a very complex and important subject. I've taken the time to write it to help everyone understand the Independent Fire District issue.

There is a lot of concern about the upcoming vote on creating an Independent Fire District (IFD) formation vote that is coming up. There is also a lot of speculation and misinformation being spread by some who are trying to pass themselves off as “knowledgeable” or even as “experts”, some of these people are running for the various County Commissioner seats. At The Villages Republican Club meeting on Thursday, I heard some of these individuals speak and, in my opinion, attempt to spread fear and discontent about this as a way to sway voters on the issue and to vote for them. While I am not omnipotent in my knowledge of the topic, recent service as a District Supervisor on the CDD10 board and on PWAC as well as my current service as County Commissioner has had me deeply engaged in the issue.

What follows is an explanation of the issue and how it will impact residents in The Villages as well as outside The Villages in Sumter County. My knowledge about The Villages undertakings on the IFD is up to date as of my leaving office on June 10th when I assumed the position of County Commissioner, for the most up to date information, you should contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, the District Manager.

Concerning the IFD, there are several variables here and I'll try to explain them. Please keep in mind what I will explain is the "ideal" and “theoretical” situation and the numbers involved can and will most likely change so the net impact to any individual property owner or taxpayer is still unknown at this time.

First, we must look at the fire department structure in Sumter County, there are two, the Sumter County Fire & EMS department (SCFD) and The Villages Public Safety department (VPSD). Both are funded from the county general fund budget; the proposed budget is about $19.3M for Sumter County and $17.9M for VPSD for the 2023 fiscal year. About $37.2M in total, this is second only to the $42.4M proposed budget for the Sumter County Sheriff's Office budget.

Funding this is two principal sources 1) the $124 annual fire Municipal Service Benefit Unit (MSBU) for fires services on the property tax bill for each developed property in the county and 2) the county general fund funds the balance of the costs. There are currently 73 funding sources to the general fund and there may be some addition contributions from some of these other sources but for the sake of discussion since these would be minor sources, we’ll focus on these two primary funding sources. The MSBU projected contribution for next year (FY23) is about $9.1M, this leaves about $28.1M coming from the General Fund.

What happens next is the most important part of the process and was approved by the BOCC on Tuesday July 12th. We will have an independent company review and analyze the costs associated with the county fire department and transport services (ambulance) in the current budget and projected for the upcoming year. They will make a recommendation on the path forward for funding of the county fire department. The anticipated action is:
a) The current revenues and expenses for fire service for both fire departments will be removed from the FY24 budget. (Based on FY23 budget numbers this would be $19.3M + $17.9M in cost and $9.1M in revenue). This will result in a decrease of the ad valorem tax millage rate; these numbers are shown at the bottom of this posting.
b) The IFD and Sumter County will set a MSBU (separate, so they may be different for each) would be based on the actual number of properties serviced by each fire department and applied to their FY24 budgets. The Sumter County MSBU will be based on the outcome of the study approved by the BOCC and the IFD as determined by their needs and board’s direction.
c) Some of the remaining costs for the County Fire Department would then be assessed as a Municipal Service Taxing Unit (MSTU) on the properties service by the SCFD and not those serviced by the VSPD. The MSTU would be an ad valorem tax on the property. This will replace the ad valorem tax rate reduction for SCFD serviced residents.
d) The balance of the costs should be recovered in Transport Fees – the fees charged for transport by the county ambulance services that were approved last year. These costs and revenues still need to be calculated.

I'm no longer engaged with the VPSD and District office for The Villages since becoming a member of the BOCC but will share with you what I know of the anticipated plan for the VPSD funding. Please follow up with the District staff and Mr. Kenny Blocker (District Manager) for the most up to date details on this.
a) A board of supervisors for the Independent Fire District will be appointed by the Governor, presumably these will be residents within the IFD.
b) The IFD will determine its funding requirements and operating budget.
c) The IFD board will establish their own MSBU to support their funding – this is the fixed dollar amount per parcel.
d) The board will set their own MSTU (or equivalent) to cover the majority of the operating cost – this is the value-based ad valorem tax millage rate that could be as high as 2 millage points ($2 per $1000 assessed value).
e) The Villages residents also contribute $4.08 each month from each Amenity Fee paid to supplement the VPSD budget, about $3.5M as best I can recall from the budget workshops earlier this year. This helps fund the extra services such as smoke alarm battery change out and AED programs.
f) Like the SCFD, VPSD will also be collecting Transport Fees for the ambulance services they provide, these revenues will also be applied to the operating budget to offset costs.

Again, for the most accurate information please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, The Villages District Manager.

For both fire departments there may be internal and external revenue sources that may offset some of the operating cost in addition to what I’ve described above. These will be up to their governing boards to pursue.

The vote on the general election ballot on November 8th is only about establishing the IFD and not about the ambulance services. The ambulance service issue was resolved last year and is moving forward in both fire districts. This is the result of residents of The Villages and County Residents requirements for better, more effective, and more responsive emergency transport services. The BOCC listened and reacted accordingly. This higher level of service will come with a price that reflects additional staffing and equipment costs. In the ideal world, these will be cost neutral and self-funding from the transport fees collected.

There may also be some startup costs for both fire departments associated with establishing an IFD that would have to be absorbed in their initial budgets.

In the end you should see on your county tax bill:
a) A lower ad valorem property tax
b) An MSBU – possibly different for each fire district
c) An MSTU – dependent on your fire districts budget requirements and any other offsetting revenue sources.

This method that is in motion that I have described removes the cost of fire protection and transport service from the general property tax bill and collects it from the separate MSBU and MSTU fees. It prevents residents in or outside The Villages from being double taxed for the fire services.

In the ideal world there would be a net zero change in your property tax bill, but there are other factors that come into play such as the costs and revenues from the in-house ambulance services that were approved last year, as well as many other things.

Again, please understand that what I've described is the ideal situation and there are many variables that will impact this and there are a lot of numbers to be crunched to determine the exact impacts and cost. Also, please reach out to Mr. Blocker for more details on the VPSD funding side.

One of the drums that have been being banged by these fear mongering “experts” is that the actual numbers for the cost impact won’t be known until June 30th 2023. While upsetting to some, this is not an attempt from either Sumter County or VPSD to hide anything, it is simply because these numbers are still being and will continue to be calculated. A little forethought should put this issue into perspective:
a) On the county side the ad valorem millage rate adjustment can’t be calculated until the exact number of properties and their values are determined in each fire district is known, this is a huge task that the Property Appraiser must do each fiscal year.
b) Both fire departments have to determine their operating costs under the new configurations, this is still in transition.
c) Transport costs and recovery rates that impact the budgets can’t be accurately determined until they are operational and have some operating history.
d) Current economic conditions (inflation) are very unpredictable, the closer to the go-live point that budgets are determined the more accurate they will be.

All of these things being considered we can do some rough calculations on some of the impact of the proposed changes. I’ll use the proposed FY23 budget numbers to get an approximation of some of the items.
To determine the ad valorem tax millage rate change we need to know two things, 1) the value of the fire service costs to be removed and 2) the value of 1 millage point.

How much will be removed from the general fund budget, I’ve discussed this already discussed this – about $37.2M less the amount collected by the current MSBU of $124/property/year $9.1M or about $28.1M. (unrounded is $28,188,777)

How much is a millage point worth? In the proposed FY23 budget the millage rate of 5.5936 will yield $95,037,767 in ad valorem taxes or about $16,990,447.48 per millage point.

With these numbers the ad valorem tax millage rate anticipated change would be:

$28,188,777/$16,990,447.48 or 1.6591 points or about a 29.7% decrease in the ad valorem tax rate for the county general fund budget.

The current MSBU of $124/yr will also be removed from the county tax bill.

This ad valorem tax decrease and MSBU removal will be replaced by a new tax, an MSTU, and a new MSBU for each fire district on the county tax bill. How much these new taxes are still being determined. If I had to guess, on The Villages side the rates may be comparable between old and new, on the county side it is much more difficult to determine so I won’t speculate at this time.

Again, these numbers are very rough and have a great many other factors that will be considered that will affect them. These are also based on FY23 values and not the more accurate yet to be determined FY24 numbers. Overall, this should give you some ideas of what things are looking like.

Neither the Sumter County BOCC or The Villages District Staff are trying to hide any information or misrepresent anything to anyone, it is simply a very complex and lengthy process both are going through in preparation for a possible approval vote to the referendum in November. Information has been and will continue to be made available as it becomes available.

Finally, once again I say, for the most up to date information on The Villages side of the issue please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, and on the Sumter County side we won’t have accurate answers until sometime in the first half of 2023 when the study is completed.

I know this explanation is lengthy and detailed, it is a complex issue and process. I hope this explanation has helped you understand where things are going with funding of the fire departments in Sumter County.

One last thought, this may be a difficult decision for some, the only advice I can give on this issue is when to determine if it is worthwhile. The only time you will truly be able to answer what the value of all this is when those big red trucks roll up to your home as the smoke is coming out the windows and all your possessions or the life of someone you love is at risk and these brave men and women step in to do their jobs, or as you let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance on the way to the hospital. It is only at these moments that you will ever know that on November 8th, if you made the right decision.
You have explained how the issue could financially affect us, but what I would like to know is how our fire services would change if the measure is passed.
  #95  
Old 10-17-2022, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Travelhunter123 View Post
I agree completely with the concept and improved response time.
The controversy’s seem to be the complexity and lack of firm budgets and estimates .
We are being asked to take a “leap of faith” and trust the impact is approximately cost neutral.
It would be easier to decide if the proponents provided a firm not to exceed budget of + or - X percent
Read up on it!!! They said there will be NO CHANGE TO THE SERVICES !!
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Old 10-17-2022, 12:37 PM
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The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?
There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes!

I am very concerned, and do not like the thought of paying this added tax on top of all the other taxes we already pay…......and based on MARKET value!!

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.



If the referendum is VOTED DOWN, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.
The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it CANNOT be reversed or undone. It will be here to stay!


Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!
Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .
  #97  
Old 10-17-2022, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Daddymac View Post
The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?
There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes!

I am very concerned, and do not like the thought of paying this added tax on top of all the other taxes we already pay…......and based on MARKET value!!

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.



If the referendum is VOTED DOWN, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.
The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it CANNOT be reversed or undone. It will be here to stay!


Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!
Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .
Quit telling people how to vote. We’re all capable of making our own decisions.

Again. Are you an elected official? A board member of one of the homeowners groups or just a concerned citizen? Just trying to determine your motivation in this whole thing. You seem to be more vested than most.
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  #98  
Old 10-17-2022, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Daddymac View Post
The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?
There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes!

I am very concerned, and do not like the thought of paying this added tax on top of all the other taxes we already pay…......and based on MARKET value!!

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.



If the referendum is VOTED DOWN, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.
The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it CANNOT be reversed or undone. It will be here to stay!


Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!
Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .
STILL MISLEADING! See discussion in the other thread on this topic.
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  #99  
Old 10-17-2022, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by milling73 View Post
This thread makes for fascinating, and very complicated reading: of explanations, estimated and ‘in a perfect world’ cost / tax variables that blur the actual outcome.
As a home owner it is the reality of the bottom line dollar amount on the tax bill due that is simple, real, and one I can understand:
And It is going to be higher.
Best response to all of the opinions/what if's in this string. This is a complicated issue and will never end. Some people want Rolls Royce service on a Ford/Chevy budget and with at least 4 different entities, The Villages, Lake County, Sumter County and Marion County.
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Old 10-17-2022, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenswing View Post
Quit telling people how to vote. We’re all capable of making our own decisions.

Again. Are you an elected official? A board member of one of the homeowners groups or just a concerned citizen? Just trying to determine your motivation in this whole thing. You seem to be more vested than most.
I too am trying to determine his motivation. I find it hard to believe that a Villager wants Sumter Co.(the people that gave us AMR) to stay in control of our VPSD. What am I missing?
  #101  
Old 10-17-2022, 03:56 PM
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Did you forget that the county commissioners who put AMR in were backed by the developer.
What the developer wants, the developer gets, one way or another. Even when the people voted
in the 3 county commissioners, who won that battle in the end ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZYG2PCyNfE
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Old 10-17-2022, 04:01 PM
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who won that battle in the end ?
what battle??
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Old 10-17-2022, 04:03 PM
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It's not unusual for an ambulance to arrive (if needed) 30-40 min after EMT/Fire services arrive.
Have not heard this.................please share your supporting data and source.
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Old 10-17-2022, 04:06 PM
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what battle??
You know very well what battle.
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Old 10-17-2022, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Romad View Post
1. The cost will be established by unelected people, not necessarily from TV.
2. The actual cost per homeowner won’t be known until June 2023.
3. The assessment will be based on actual home values instead of assessed value. Who determines them?

While Mr. Wiley’s response is long, he failed to address why so many were concerned about the cost last Thursday. If he was there, why didn’t he speak up?

If you thought the 25% tax increase over the roads was bad, you haven’t seen anything yet.

I think more of us would be interested in the cost for one fire department in Sumter county instead of two.
This was a reasoned response to the complex subject being discussed here. Where I came from in New England there was no way a high cost item with fuzzy math like this would ever pass on a first or second vote. It took 6 years to pass a bill to pay for a new police station. The price was cut in half in year six and the town of 7000 approved the expense.
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