[twiceis]

I too read your article about the Katie Belle renovation and the demise of The Cattle Baron Club.

While I agree that the facility needed a freshening up, I think what is planned removes part of the uniqueness of The Villages. The artist's rendering makes Katie Bell's look just like any of the other night spots in The Villages. Gone is the wonderful large dance floor and old-time saloon atmosphere with the soaring ceiling. Now it will be just a restaurant with entertainment which is hardly unique.

The attraction to Katie Bell's was not the food....it was the venue and the entertainment. The Cattle Baron Club was a wonderful place to dine, but mixing the two into one is a step in the wrong direction. If anything, the facility should keep the same format, but expand the bar area which was way too small.

I was looking forward to attending an event at the new beautiful Sharon L. Morse Performing Arts Center before or after having dinner at the Cattle Baron Club. How could they get one venue so right (The Performing Arts Center) and one so wrong (the new Katie Belle's)?

It seems this is all being done not in the interest of freshening up Katie Belle's, but in the interest of providing more revenue for the developer by adding shops to the downstairs area.

I was hoping this article was just an April fools joke.

[BigbirdPhila]

Originally Posted by Bonny

The powers that be don't have to discuss it with anyone or take a poll. It's their building to do what they want with. It was always a money loser and they probably have decided they no longer want to spend "their" money to keep it going. They don't need or want anyone's input.

While that's true legally, I believe ethically one can make a different argument. We are not talking about some generic bar/restaurant that was shown for 2 seconds on a promotional video. We are talking about a facility that prospective buyers were explicitly taken into and was used to demonstrate the "Villages lifestyle". The implication was that it (or its equivalent) would be there for their enjoyment should they decide to purchase in the Villages. The new KB's will not be the equivalent of the old KB's.

For those saying it loses money, what if the developers decided to convert all or part of one of the town squares into retail stores because it wasn't contributing explicitly to the "bottom line"? After all, the squares take $$ to maintain each year but don't directly bring in any revenue. They lose money! Wouldn't you feel cheated? The squares are part of the Villages lifestyle and were promoted as such during your sales tour. You assumed they would be there for your enjoyment should you decide to buy.

Opening KB's to the pubic or charging a cover charge are much less risky things to try before destroying this unique venue.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by BigbirdPhila

While that's true legally, I believe ethically one can make a different argument. We are not talking about some generic bar/restaurant that was shown for 2 seconds on a promotional video. We are talking about a facility that prospective buyers were explicitly taken into and was used to demonstrate the "Villages lifestyle". The implication was that it (or its equivalent) would be there for their enjoyment should they decide to purchase in the Villages. The new KB's will not be the equivalent of the old KB's.

For those saying it loses money, what if the developers decided to convert all or part of one of the town squares into retail stores because it wasn't contributing explicitly to the "bottom line"? After all, the squares take $$ to maintain each year but don't directly bring in any revenue. They lose money! Wouldn't you feel cheated? The squares are part of the Villages lifestyle and were promoted as such during your sales tour. You assumed they would be there for your enjoyment should you decide to buy.

Opening KB's to the pubic or charging a cover charge are much less risky things to try before destroying this unique venue.

Never good to assume.......and since I have no money invested in KB's or the squares I have no right to feel cheated and expect those that invested and took the risk have every right to do what is in their best interest. Things change, and our interpretation of of what was implied when you moved here is just that, our interpretation. If KB's totally closed I doubt anyone would be leaving this place since TV is so much more than KB's. Shed a tear, punch a hole in your walls, scream at the top of your lungs, then let it go....there is much more to life than KB's

[Bonny]

Originally Posted by BigbirdPhila

While that's true legally, I believe ethically one can make a different argument. We are not talking about some generic bar/restaurant that was shown for 2 seconds on a promotional video. We are talking about a facility that prospective buyers were explicitly taken into and was used to demonstrate the "Villages lifestyle". The implication was that it (or its equivalent) would be there for their enjoyment should they decide to purchase in the Villages. The new KB's will not be the equivalent of the old KB's.

For those saying it loses money, what if the developers decided to convert all or part of one of the town squares into retail stores because it wasn't contributing explicitly to the "bottom line"? After all, the squares take $$ to maintain each year but don't directly bring in any revenue. They lose money! Wouldn't you feel cheated? The squares are part of the Villages lifestyle and were promoted as such during your sales tour. You assumed they would be there for your enjoyment should you decide to buy.

Opening KB's to the pubic or charging a cover charge are much less risky things to try before destroying this unique venue.

We loved Katie Belles and Cattle Baron, but in the end, it doesn't matter. It's their building and I trust it will be beautiful and all will be good.

[BigbirdPhila]

Originally Posted by JoMar

since I have no money invested in KB's or the squares I have no right to feel cheated

But you do have money invested in KB's and the squares. Your house's value. If the next buyer feels he/she can duplicate the lifestyle here cheaper at another community, the value of your house will decline. When unique amenities are destroyed and substitued with generic ones, your property becomes more of a commodity.

[Bonny]

I doubt very much that changes being made to Katie Belles will affect the value of my house.

[scrapple]

Does anyone recall the proposed schedule? I've done a few searches, but have not found the answer. Is it supposed to be closed at the end of April? Re-opening when?

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Never good to assume.......and since I have no money invested in KB's or the squares I have no right to feel cheated and expect those that invested and took the risk have every right to do what is in their best interest. Things change, and our interpretation of of what was implied when you moved here is just that, our interpretation. If KB's totally closed I doubt anyone would be leaving this place since TV is so much more than KB's. Shed a tear, punch a hole in your walls, scream at the top of your lungs, then let it go....there is much more to life than KB's

I agree. Good post!

[Bonny]

Originally Posted by scrapple

Does anyone recall the proposed schedule? I've done a few searches, but have not found the answer. Is it supposed to be closed at the end of April? Re-opening when?

May 1 st. They said about 6 months.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by Bonny

I doubt very much that changes being made to Katie Belles will affect the value of my house.

Maybe, maybe not. The fact that sales agents use it as part of a sales pitch implies that, from their professional judgement and client feedback, it does have a value to prospective buyers and would argue that you are wrong.

Many on this thread argue that KB was unprofitable and hence it makes perfect business sense to close/change. As others have stated, but warrants repeating, what The Villages as a corporation sells is a Lifestyle - it's what separates TV from the myriad of other retirement communities. That is more than just an individual restaurant or activity, it is the entirety of the experience. Closing what many consider to be a significant contributor to that lifestyle or ambiance becaue it may not be making a direct contribution to the bottom line is akin to Disney cancelling its parade down Main Street because it costs millions to put on but doesn't generate any direct revenue.

The KB closing (yes, for all intents and purpose KB as a unique venue is gone forever), is just one of many degradations to the lifestyle that I have experienced since we have been here. I suspect that change in the direction of lifestyle degradation will only continue - at least those components that may not individually add to the bottom line of the developer. The one positive exception to this may be the Sharon - I am impressed with its possibilities. I hope it finds the right mix of quality entertainment at a pricepoint that is sustainable.

I wonder if the Life Long Learning Center is profitable? If not, it too may find its way to the chopping block.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Bonny

I doubt very much that changes being made to Katie Belles will affect the value of my house.

Agreed.

[Bonny]

When we bought here in 1999 Santiago was the last Village & that's where we moved. It was very cool to have our own restaurant, Santiago. No one wanted to see it go, but we all survived. I love Katie Belles, but life will go on.

[LynnWM158]

Is Cattle Baron's already closed?

[JMEZARIC3]

Originally Posted by iaudit

According to the Daily Sun, Katie Belle's is being relocated to the second floor and the Cattle Baron's Club is going away. Seating is being expanded to 300 and the first floor will be commercial. Although not explicitly stated, looking at the artist rendition in the paper showing entertainment and seating area, there does not appear to be a dancing area.

The Cattle Baron and Katie Belle's were a major part of my Life Style Tour and helped to sell TV to me.On the tour I learned all the benefits of TV are in place before homes are sold in a new villages.I never asked if these benefits are forever.How can the keystone of the Life Style Tour be taken away!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by JMEZARIC3

The Cattle Baron and Katie Belle's were a major part of my Life Style Tour and helped to sell TV to me.On the tour I learned all the benefits of TV are in place before homes are sold in a new villages.I never asked if these benefits are forever.How can the keystone of the Life Style Tour be taken away!

It is ONE restaurant with entertainment. JUST ONE.

It appears that the business was sold to a private business who is reconfiguring it. There will be a restaurant there in that building.

Change happens, sometimes it is what we like and sometimes it isn't.

I see NO reason to malign the Morse family over this. They have sold almost all of the restaurants that they originally established and ran; Cane Garden, The Lighthouse, the one that is now Panera Bread in Lake Sumter. They set them up so there would be restaurants with the plan to sell the business and keep the building to lease.

They aren't the devil incarnate for doing this. They are just business people. They aren't anyone's mother.