Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2096638)

I've posted this before and I'll do it again. Community development agencies have done a lot or research into revitalizing down towns in cities and have found that to bring life back to downtown areas you need residents living there. I saw that happen in Nashville, TN when I was working downtown. A developer built a high rise apartment building right on the edge of downtown. Prior to this the majority of businesses there were restaurants and a few small shops that catered to the office workers with a lot of boarded up buildings. After the apartment building was built and occupied, a grocery store opened just a couple block from the apartments. Other businesses opened to cater to the apartment residents. In the downtown entertainment area new businesses opened and existing ones expanded their operations. In the last 8 or so years a lot of new apartment and condo buildings have been built and prior to the covid debacle the downtown scene in Nashville was booming. Without those apartment residents downtown, Nashville would still be a ghost town after 6:00 PM. If you haven't figured it out yet, maybe apartments will revitalize and save SS.

Question for all the community development experts, what are your ideas for the improvement of SS? Please don't even mention Katie Belles, that is a dead horse that has been beaten into a bloody pulp that will not be like the Phoenix and rise from the ashes. It was a failed business plan, get over it.

The office spaces on the second floor of these buildings are setting vacant and producing no revenue yet the owner has to pay property taxes and maintenance. What successful business allows potential revenue generating property to set idle and be a drain on corporate revenue? I'll help out here for those that don't have critical thinking skills, none that are operating in the black.

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2096532)

The developers idea of progress is not necessarily the same as people who live near there.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2096638)

I've posted this before and I'll do it again. Community development agencies have done a lot or research into revitalizing down towns in cities and have found that to bring life back to downtown areas you need residents living there. I saw that happen in Nashville, TN when I was working downtown. A developer built a high rise apartment building right on the edge of downtown. Prior to this the majority of businesses there were restaurants and a few small shops that catered to the office workers with a lot of boarded up buildings. After the apartment building was built and occupied, a grocery store opened just a couple block from the apartments. Other businesses opened to cater to the apartment residents. In the downtown entertainment area new businesses opened and existing ones expanded their operations. In the last 8 or so years a lot of new apartment and condo buildings have been built and prior to the covid debacle the downtown scene in Nashville was booming. Without those apartment residents downtown, Nashville would still be a ghost town after 6:00 PM. If you haven't figured it out yet, maybe apartments will revitalize and save SS.

Question for all the community development experts, what are your ideas for the improvement of SS? Please don't even mention Katie Belles, that is a dead horse that has been beaten into a bloody pulp that will not be like the Phoenix and rise from the ashes. It was a failed business plan, get over it.

The office spaces on the second floor of these buildings are setting vacant and producing no revenue yet the owner has to pay property taxes and maintenance. What successful business allows potential revenue generating property to set idle and be a drain on corporate revenue? I'll help out here for those that don't have critical thinking skills, none that are operating in the black.

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2096602)

7 or 14 apts is not the finale. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What would a couple of hundred apts mean for SS?

It would mean the businesses were unprofitable or poorly managed and ended up closing.

BTW our village sales rep did call the squares an amenity.

Probably not the first or last salesperson to mis-state something

It is amazing to me that when the developer loses some thing they always manage to finesse their way around it and get what they want.

Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 2096650)

They are good developers. Only bad business people sit on losing assets without trying something better

Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2096644)

What proof is there SS downtown needs revitalization ? Let's take a good look around. Every postage stamp of vacant land around SS is being bought up and new businesses being built at breakneck speed. Highways being widened. New developments going up - literally up. Land around SS is so scarce they need to build high rises.
Another hypothesis might be the developer is charging beyond what a Mom and Pop business can afford to pay for rent and MOM and POP still be profitable. Don't forget their model is to minimize most larger corporations/franchises on their domain. No lack of people here from 5 - 9 pm. Lack of two hour happy hours, lack of hard libation for HH, Lack of good restaurants and an abundance of businesses that are not much more than novelty shops.

And the answer is - 7 apartments will save SS from doomsday.

Reviatization - BS.

Originally Posted by mtdjed (Post 2096661)

How does 7 apartments hurt anything?

Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2096644)

What proof is there SS downtown needs revitalization ? Let's take a good look around. Every postage stamp of vacant land around SS is being bought up and new businesses being built at breakneck speed. Highways being widened. New developments going up - literally up. Land around SS is so scarce they need to build high rises.
Another hypothesis might be the developer is charging beyond what a Mom and Pop business can afford to pay for rent and MOM and POP still be profitable. Don't forget their model is to minimize most larger corporations/franchises on their domain. No lack of people here from 5 - 9 pm. Lack of two hour happy hours, lack of hard libation for HH, Lack of good restaurants and an abundance of businesses that are not much more than novelty shops.

And the answer is - 7 apartments will save SS from doomsday.

Reviatization from what ? A self inflicted wound. - Bunch of BS.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2096665)

I never said SS was failing and needed re-vitalizing, just responding to those who claim it is failing and providing information community development experts has found to work.

Think about your statement that the developer charges too much rent. How does any successful business think that is better to lose revenue because their ego tells them the property should rent for more than the market will bear? Does that make any sense? Has the Morse family not been successful?

It probably wasn't a smart idea to build office/retain space on a second floor but even the best developers make errors. I'll go back to my experiences working in downtown Nashville. There is an area called the Arcade, a restaurant/shopping area that is roofed over for weather protection and has a second floor. Most of the space on the second floor was vacant because people didn't want to wait for the elevator or use the stairs.

As far as 14 parking spaces being taken by apartment residents, that is like a 5 gallon bucket of water taken out of one of the retention ponds. As I stated earlier there are plenty of parking spaces within a short walk of the square. Many people could benefit from the exercise.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2096665)

I never said SS was failing and needed re-vitalizing, just responding to those who claim it is failing and providing information community development experts has found to work.

Think about your statement that the developer charges too much rent. How does any successful business think that is better to lose revenue because their ego tells them the property should rent for more than the market will bear? Does that make any sense? Has the Morse family not been successful?

It probably wasn't a smart idea to build office/retain space on a second floor but even the best developers make errors. I'll go back to my experiences working in downtown Nashville. There is an area called the Arcade, a restaurant/shopping area that is roofed over for weather protection and has a second floor. Most of the space on the second floor was vacant because people didn't want to wait for the elevator or use the stairs.

As far as 14 parking spaces being taken by apartment residents, that is like a 5 gallon bucket of water taken out of one of the retention ponds. As I stated earlier there are plenty of parking spaces within a short walk of the square. Many people could benefit from the exercise.

Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2096673)

Never once have I seen a statement from the developers that they were operating SS in the red. The only source I've heard that statement from is the sheeples who for the most part are still in the new home honeymoon period (and just for grins never stepped foot into the original Katie Belle's - Harold's flagship and his mother's namesake). Before you jump to the next comeback what I did not say is "the developers don't have a right to go onto other ventures that will produce higher profit margins". However those ventures are limited to being within the law which includes zoning. I have no issue with the developer requesting "legally" a variance. The declaration of it's their property and they can do as they wish is a total misnomer and neither can anyone of us do as we wish with our properties. I am not saying bibery, blackmail, backroom deals are taking place but something smells fishy to me about the sequence of events that have unfolded.

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2096682)

This thread gets funnier and funnier.