Lets' be careful----toss up question

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Old 01-29-2011, 08:11 AM
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Default Lets' be careful----toss up question

Almost every time there is a discussion about police enforcing automobile or golf cart speed in The Villages, there is a flurry of comment that the police apparently have nothing better to do. It's posted that they are doing it to raise money for the county coffers. The comments read like a "us versus them" story.

Here's my question (questions). At what amount of speed over the limit should tickets be given? 10, 20, 30 over, or what? Or, should no tickets be given in The Villages.

If unregistered golf carts are permitted to travel a maximum of 19.5 miles per hour, at what speed should they be ticketed? 21, 33, 43 or what? Or should police mind their own business and leave all golf carts alone?

I am interested in replies from those who have complained about the police enforcing the speed laws.
Old 01-29-2011, 08:29 AM
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Default Nah

Don't feel that law enforcement needs to issue citations. I saw 1 guy last summer come out of the bank using a blind persons cane. Then he gets in his golf cart and drives away. Now I REALLY don't feel as though he should be ticketed if he exceeds the non-posted golf cart speed limit. Come on - he probably couldn't see it anyway. True Story.
Old 01-29-2011, 08:36 AM
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I know some cops and they usually say that they will give leeway to a highway speed of 9 mph over (in our area that would be 74 max). But they are more strict on smaller side roads.

In TV I would give golf carts leeway up to 23 mph.

I'd like them to concentrate more on reckless actions and maybe more education on round-a-bouts. What I mean is, if they see a bad roundabout move, pull the person over and explain what they did and how dangerous it is. Give them a warning (into the system so they can look it up if they stop them again). I personally think the round-a-bout moves are more dangerous than speeding down the straight away.
Old 01-29-2011, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by F16 1UB View Post
Don't feel that law enforcement needs to issue citations. I saw 1 guy last summer come out of the bank using a blind persons cane. Then he gets in his golf cart and drives away. Now I REALLY don't feel as though he should be ticketed if he exceeds the non-posted golf cart speed limit. Come on - he probably couldn't see it anyway. True Story.
Have you been taking lessons from Fumar, F16 1UB? I suppose he would only want tickets if there were dogs in the golf carts?

It depends on the circumstances to me about when cops should give tickets. Definitely in the school zones at the proper times BUT it also seems like there are areas in the Villages-- like on Belvedere in front of the high school-- where almost all the cars trucks and golf carts are doing better than the 20 m.p.h. speed limit for the school zone. It is a different story on CR466 where I see them pulling over speeders in their vehicles quite often in the school zones.

If a golf cart is zooming down a stretch that is barren of any other kind of traffic the driver should have some leeway. Now if he/she is speeding around in the crowded squares, nail the person.
Old 01-29-2011, 08:52 AM
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Default Why do we have rules/laws?

As a teacher, my second grade students most recent writing example had to be an explanation. I gave them this topic.... Why we have rules at school....
Think about it!
Old 01-29-2011, 09:03 AM
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I agree completely with Russ. The purpose of all traffic laws and their enforcement is public safety. Police need to prioritize what laws they are to enforce and how strictly they are to be enforced based on how much of a danger the violation puts the public in. Quite frankly, I don't see a golf cart going 23 mph versus 20 mph as very much of a danger at all. I would MUCH rather have the officer spend his/her time making sure that the cars going through the roundabouts follow the rules. This represents a much bigger threat to my safety than a golf cart passing me.

I have never come close to having my safety feel threatened by a speeding golf cart. On the other hand I have had far too many close calls on roundabouts with people thinking that they can use the outer loop regardless of where they want to go.

I feel that sometimes the police are just lazy in their law enforcement philosophy. Since the technology exists to make a black and white citation of speeding (with radar guns), they choose to put all of the emphasis on that versus having to observe violations such as traffic circle scofflaws where the citation and potential follow-up legal court appearance is more difficult.
Old 01-29-2011, 09:23 AM
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I agree with Russ. The laws are there for a reason....we all know the rules, so follow them and there won't be a problem. If you break them, be willing to pay the price. And yes, I do believe people should be ticketed, this applies to golf carts and cars alike. Am I saying that I am the perfect driver, absolutely not...sometimes I have a heavy foot....I got a ticket my second week of living here, but I paid it without complaining because I was in the wrong.
Old 01-29-2011, 09:38 AM
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A guy goes in a store with a gun robs it and only gets $3, should he be let off because he only got $3? The law is the law! If you you can't pay the fine, don't do the crime!
Old 01-29-2011, 09:58 AM
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I would allow about 10% before giving a ticket. So 22 mph on golf carts, 55 in a 50 zone, 77 in a 70 etc. A concept some folks have a hard time understanding is the law is the law. Going 55 in a 50 mph zone you could pass most cops without a problem. (except in Waldo and Starky) There 51 in a 50 gets you a ticket. But 120 in a 50 will get you handcuffed and jail time.

So yes there are degrees of breaking the law. Getting only $3 in a robbery is not the question. It could be $3 or $300,000. It is doing the robbery with a gun vs a baseball bat. One gets you probation, the other gets you jail time. Unless of course you use either weapon. Then the degree of the crime changes.
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:23 AM
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I've seen this concept of percentages used before. The problem with it is that it is not consistent with the danger that results. Taking into account reaction time, breaking distances and resulting damages based on the size of the vehicle, a 2 ton vehicle going 77 versus 70 is FAR more lethal than a golf cart going 22 versus 20. To treat them both as equal threats to public safety does not make any sense.
Old 01-29-2011, 10:27 AM
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Police, I'm told and have seen myself, usually will pull over the driver who is driving aggressively or erratically on the road even though others are also exceeding the speed limit, but otherwise driving smoothly.

If I was a cop and I saw a cart going a bit over the limit but otherwise driving safely I would probably give him a pass, but if I saw him swerving around legal carts going the limit or failing to slow around recreational participants, I would nab him.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)
Old 01-29-2011, 10:34 AM
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I vote for 23 mph - our cart will do 22.5 mph. I don't normally drive with the pedal to the metal but could if the boss said to get a move on.

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Old 01-29-2011, 04:31 PM
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Anytime there is a discussion on speed, there is goody two shoes who drives 5 mph under the limit in the passing lane and won't let traffic by and will rant and rave about people shouldn't be in a hurry. I agree with I2ridehd that 10% plus is reasonable in good weather conditions. Two or three mph + or - can be contributed to police radar or laser error, speedometer error, or a combination of both. If you have a cart that will go exactly 19.9 mph and think anything over at all should be given a ticket, then you will get one when you have a 15 to 20 mph tail wind. I have a speedometer on mine that reads to .1 mph and can see the difference heading into the wind and away from the wind, not to mention up or down hill.
Old 01-29-2011, 05:06 PM
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This discussion brings back the memory of my high school driving instructor, Mr. Torpey. He once asked us a question that I have not forgotten. He asked what he should do if the traffic on the road outside our school was traveling at 45 mph when the limit was 40 mph. Because we were all trying to make sure we got our licenses, we answered 40. Nope, he replied. To go 40 would create more problems than doing 45 and keeping with the flow of traffic.

I think law enforcement personnel keep that in mind when determining whether to ticket someone or not. I think if you're traveling with the flow of traffic and not aggressively or unsafely, they will let you slide with a few mph over the limit. (Except in a school zone!!!!)
Old 01-29-2011, 05:21 PM
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Default Hi, my name is Alan and I have an illegal cart........

I agree with most of the posts here regarding golf cart speed. I personally see no safety issue caused by a cart that goes 21-23MPH. (Yes, yes, yes I know it is no longer a golf cart). I personally did not soup up my cart so I could pass other villagers. The cart is a 02 Club Car. It topped out at 20 MPH as it should by design on flats. The issue with this cart was that if it was into the wind or up a slight grade the speed would drop to 17-18 MPH, how about 15 MPH through the mountains of Mallory. This always would bug me as I felt like I was holding up carts that can go 19-20 MPH all the time.

What I discovered is there no easy or inexpensive solution to this. I did as others who wish to resolve this do and put in a high speed motor ($400) which gets the cart up hills of Mallory at 18 MPH and it can maintain 20 on minor grades. The problem with that is it solution is now the cart goes 23-24 on flats. I have a speed ohmmeter and I keep it less that 21 when I am travelling on a road, e.g., Morse north of 466 to avoid speed traps. I also have a personal rule that I will never pass a cart going the speed limit (about 20 MPH) even if I can. Pulling me over for going 22MPH and giving me a ticket does not raise safety on the cart paths in TV one bit IMO.

With that said, I think a safety issue is how the carts that go 24-25 MPH are driven. Some drivers run up on your tail even as as you are going 20 dodging in and out looking to pass every cart they can. Have you ever witnessed a cart passing 3 to 5 carts all the way up Beuna Vista through the Palmer stretch. very scary, makes my blood boil I must admit.

If the police wish to crack down on golf cart speeding/safety, buy 4 unmarked carts that go 19.9MPH. Drive them up and down Morse and BV by Palmer pulling over everyone who passes passes them.....
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