[memason]

Hello everyone and Happy New Year!!!

We have been reading and collecting information about the Villages, in hopes of moving there in the near future. I have read, with great interest, the Nuts and Bolts section and looked at the "average" monthly costs on the villages website. This evening (I live in Germany right now, so it's evening), I stumbled across the rate card for the Villages Daily Sun. To justify their advertising rates, they have a demographics section on the card. Here is what it says about the villagers:

Current Population: 75,000
Population by 2012 (Projected) 102,119
Avg. Household income (Villagers) $93,800
Avg. Household income (Florida) $44,448

What are your thoughts ? Do these numbers seem accurate for the Villages ???

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by memason

Hello everyone and Happy New Year!!!

We have been reading and collecting information about the Villages, in hopes of moving there in the near future. I have read, with great interest, the Nuts and Bolts section and looked at the "average" monthly costs on the villages website. This evening (I live in Germany right now, so it's evening), I stumbled across the rate card for the Villages Daily Sun. To justify their advertising rates, they have a demographics section on the card. Here is what it says about the villagers:

Current Population: 75,000
Population by 2012 (Projected) 102,119
Avg. Household income (Villagers) $93,800
Avg. Household income (Florida) $44,448

What are your thoughts ? Do these numbers seem accurate for the Villages ???

Yes.

[Xavier]

Originally Posted by memason

Hello everyone and Happy New Year!!!

We have been reading and collecting information about the Villages, in hopes of moving there in the near future. I have read, with great interest, the Nuts and Bolts section and looked at the "average" monthly costs on the villages website. This evening (I live in Germany right now, so it's evening), I stumbled across the rate card for the Villages Daily Sun. To justify their advertising rates, they have a demographics section on the card. Here is what it says about the villagers:

Current Population: 75,000
Population by 2012 (Projected) 102,119
Avg. Household income (Villagers) $93,800
Avg. Household income (Florida) $44,448

What are your thoughts ? Do these numbers seem accurate for the Villages ???

I believe those statistics to be accurate. However when various organizations use Average (the mean) Household Income instead of Median Household Income it is probably because they are trying to convince someone to buy something or go along with a particular idea. Newspapers want to sell ads and political parties want to sell their view-point. I'll shorten the story - I'm pretty sure that the average residence in The Villages does not have a household income of $93,800. I would bet my next pension check that it would be considerably less.

Just do an Internet search of median vs mean (or average) and throw in the word income

[logdog]

I agree that the average TV income is considerably lower than $93K. It's probably slightly higher than the Florida average but not by much. It's hard to get info like that on line because the population here is growing so fast. But most homes (new and resale) sold here seem to be in the $200 - 250K range which makes me think the incomes are probably more like $50K. Or people made good investments or sold homes they held for a long time in other areas and were able to pay cash here in TV and are living on much lower incomes with no mortgage.

[BobKat1]

Many of the retirees that I know have incomes that vary from year to year. They withdraw what they need for each year, but it's never a steady average year to year. Some years it's high and other years it's lower.

$93K for TV does seem quite high to me.

[Xavier]

Getting accurate information is just like in the Olympics - throw out the top (glowing) response and the worst (nastiest) response and average the rest.

Good luck with your quest.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by logdog

But most homes (new and resale) sold here seem to be in the $200 - 250K range which makes me think the incomes are probably more like $50K.

Many Village residents have two homes, one in The Bubble, and one "up north". I've heard the speculation that 40% of Villagers are seasonal residents.

I'm not sure what that says about average income.

[JimJoe]

The average income (mean) is not a very useful number because the presence of a few very large incomes will skew the final average income. The Median is also not that useful for income evaluations because merely because there an equal number of persons with incomes higher and lower than the middle income person can be skewed in a number of ways. The mode (the number that is the most frequent income or income range) can be helpful when looking at incomes, especaily if you look at a range of incomes and look for the mode of the ranges.
My guess is 93k is fair for the average, but the most common mode range would be approximately 40k to 60k per year. IMHO

[Russ_Boston]

Originally Posted by JimJoe

My guess is 93k is fair for the average, but the most common mode range would be approximately 40k to 60k per year. IMHO

I think that is a fair guesstimate. I would think the 'average' boomer has around $1-3 K month pension 1.5K Social Security and 1K-3K interest from retirement accounts. If they didn't have a pension then the retirement account would probably have more in it. So that makes it about 4-6K per month or 48K to 72K income. Just my rudimentary estimate.

[ricthemic]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

I think that is a fair guesstimate. I would think the 'average' boomer has around $1-3 K month pension 1.5K Social Security and 1K-3K interest from retirement accounts. If they didn't have a pension then the retirement account would probably have more in it. So that makes it about 4-6K per month or 48K to 72K income. Just my rudimentary estimate.

good post but I am curious. Of the previously quoted Village population of70,000, what percentage of them do you think are "boomers"?

[Russ_Boston]

Well since Boomers just started collecting early SS about 2 years ago that would make the oldest boomer 64? (born around 1945 or so?)

If you consider the average age of TV residents is probably over 64 then the guess would be 35%. But obviously that % grows every day as us boomers move in and the non-boomers, well let's just say they move on!

I could explain the math behind my guess but my fingers would explode

[EdV]

I think any speculation of average or median incomes is fairly meaningless when it comes to affordability of living in The Villages.

Remember that unlike many of the other planned communities, the price of homes in TV covers a very wide spectrum. You can purchase anything from a very modest pre-owned manufactured home in the historic section for ~70k all the way up to a lavish 7000 sq foot golf course pool home for ~1 million.

And for the same $130 monthly fee, every owner is entitled to use all of the amenities available in TV and golf for free the rest of their lives if that’s what appeals to you.

So it’s not a matter of whether or not you can afford to live in TV, it’s whether or not the home you can reasonably afford to own in TV would satisfy you.

[Russ_Boston]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

So it’s not a matter of whether or not you can afford to live in TV, it’s whether or not the home you can reasonably afford to own in TV would satisfy you.

Very well stated Ed. And true IMO.

[debzaranti]

Hard to say how many of us are Boomers. Depends which area you look at. If you're on the Spanish Springs side of TV, I'd say there are a lot fewer Boomers. If you look on the Sumter Landing side...I think we are "Boomer heavy" over here.

[l2ridehd]

There are very many factors to consider when you look at these numbers. Remember where they are collected. The "average income" number from TV would reflect who is buying and also reflect the point in time you bought as that is when they get the data about you. When I bought as with many others we were still working full time so income would be showing a false higher number vs the income we will get in retirement. I know people in TV on both extremes. Someone who has retired and lives OK on about 28K a year, and someone who is still working making over 400K a year. Neither has a home mortgage. Both live close to each other in similar homes and play golf together. About the only real difference between the two lifestyles is the amount they dine out and the vacations they take. Somehow we seem to allow our expenses expand to meet the available income. But IMHO you can live fine on between 50K and 80K a year. Again there are many factors that will impact what is required. Do you pay health insurance, do you own the home and have a paid off bond, do you like to travel a lot, do you have a pension and 401K available as a cushion, what are your annual medical bills, do you help support children, do you have a car payment, what type hobbies do you have, etc. etc. You can be frugal and very careful what you spend, or do what ever you want anytime you want because you can afford it.

What I really noticed here is that those that have to watch what they spend and those that don't still have a great time, enjoy each others company, and travel in the same circles. After all, we all live in the same village/neighborhood. We all have the same stuff available to us at a very affordable cost, we are all friends and heading down the same road. So fitting in is not really an issue for either end of the income scale. Living comfortable for the next 30 years will require an amount of money equal to inflation adjusted annually for what you need today. I figured out what I needed today, adjusted it up 3.5% a year, and then figured I need to die at 96 to make it last. Now lets just see if I can make it.