I feel sorry for the instructors who depend on the money they make to augment their own retirements.

They are all listed at the beginning of the link (Plaintiffs) that duhbear put in his post.

WHAT!!!


I am reading this from afar right now so I do not have the newspaper article, but from what I am reading here, I am beyond disappointed.

I love those classes! I have taken many!

You cannot fight the force of the Federal Government and lobbyists. I am so angry. I saw this coming just from posts on this Forum. In my opinion, this is an example of an agency that has overstepped it's goals and in this case thrown the baby out with the bath water. I am so mad at the ADA right now. And the people who brought this suit. Anyone who knows me well know what my priorities are but this is just BS, in MY very humble opinion. The needs of MANY older people have been ignored for someone's narrow campaign.

not saying anything derogatory in regards to your comment but...

my twirler teacher said she was only being paid $45 for the 6 week class she taught...... and we met in a vacant storefront in spanish springs.

Not much compensation for her considering there were 8 classmates paying between $35 and $55 each to the LLC.

Wow what a sad day. The Lifelong Learning Center has provided not only classes but outside tours and trips at a reasonable price to The Village residences. Now many of our residents will not only miss the opportunity to take a wide variety of classes but the chance to go on some trips outside The Villages😒

SCHWARZ v. THE VILLAGES CHARTER SCHOOL, INC. | Case No. 5:12-cv-177-Oc-34PRL. | Leagle.com

The ADA is enforcing that. TV will just have to come up with a way to make this work for everyone...not just for some.....they will remedy this....i'm sure of it.... the lawsuit just lit a fire under there butts....

Here's who you can complain to:
Plaintiffs are Louis Schwarz, Doris Schwarz, Janice Hickey, Thomas Hickey, Bernie Brown, Elizabeth Holst, Stephen Holst, Joanna Langlais, Francis Langlais, Robert Smart, Richard McElwain, Byron Zimmerman, Shirley Zimmerman, John Wilson, Charles Martin, Randall Walker, Evelyn Walker, Maureen Osgood, Carole Paul, Mary Kay Pickering, Andrew St. John, Karen Russell, Clarence Russell, Richard Woods, Linda Woods, Robert McDevitt, Lynn Stirling, Kathleen McElwain, Herbert Pickering, Barbara Achin, Ronald Achin, Diane St. John, Kenny Hynes, and Mary Wilson. See Third Amended Complaint at 1-2 (Doc. 93).

When we moved here in '08 there were herds of buffalo all over TheVillages. One day a grandpa gave his grandchild an apple to feed to a buffalo..the buffalo bit the child and grandpa sued the developer...no mo buffalo...same deal here

How is this such a surprise to so many?

Of all the issues that are in TV, good or bad or just informative, how did this one sneak under the radar of knowledgeable residents and management? (if it did that is).

How did this major element of TV life style process toward demise with no clamor along the way to closure?

Plaintiffs are Louis Schwarz, Doris Schwarz, Janice Hickey, Thomas Hickey, Bernie Brown, Elizabeth Holst, Stephen Holst, Joanna Langlais, Francis Langlais, Robert Smart, Richard McElwain, Byron Zimmerman, Shirley Zimmerman, John Wilson, Charles Martin, Randall Walker, Evelyn Walker, Maureen Osgood, Carole Paul, Mary Kay Pickering, Andrew St. John, Karen Russell, Clarence Russell, Richard Woods, Linda Woods, Robert McDevitt, Lynn Stirling, Kathleen McElwain, Herbert Pickering, Barbara Achin, Ronald Achin, Diane St. John, Kenny Hynes, and Mary Wilson. See Third Amended Complaint at 1-2 (Doc. 93).

The details of the suit and the list of plaintiffs (neighbors) can be googled by searching "suit against the villages lifelong learning college." Not a friendly gesture in Florida's Friendliest Hometown!

HenryK, you beat me to the list, thank you.

It is too bad that there was no middle ground on this, for example, having a few sign language personnel available for classes IF REQUESTED, or something similar. I know my wife is very disappointed as she had just signed up for the second and third classes for some art classes. I had looked at several classes, and was considering teaching 1 or 2 classes, OH WELL.

I am hoping that a solution can be found, and that this does not impact all of the clubs and other events in TV. The possible implications of this could be very bad foe TV.

from my reading of the legal document. they initially went after the Resident Lifestyle Groups....but it appears the case was not as strong, so then they went after the LLC because although the filing states many of the plaintiffs have never enrolled the case would be more easily made. All the things tried were not acceptable to them. they said the text to speech wasn't always 100% accurate, transcripts that were provided had typos. they could have brought their own interpreter who could take the class free of charge. one of the things asked for was injunctive relief which is: injunctive relief is a court order for the defendant to stop a specified act or behavior. Well, they got it.
If I felt people were deliberately being discriminated against, I would applaud them. But this looks like a calculated move to get money and when one avenue was closed down (against the deep pockets of the developer with the RLGs) they looked around and found somewhere else to sue.
I will miss the LLC and I feel sorry for the instructors (whether they are paid well or not--I suspect you make more if you have full classes) but I'm kind of glad they stood up to it. I'm sure they thought the fear of having to close LLC would be a strong card to use in settlement talks. well, now that is off the table.

Let cool heads prevail
 

Yes, this totally sux. It's gonna get a lot uglier before this is all over, but please, let's not turn this into an ugly linch-mob mentality. There's enough of that going on in this country already.

I hope these 32 people are happy with themselves that their actions resulted in affecting 18,000 (number quoted in the Daily Sun this morning) residents that were signed up for the next session of classes and trips at the Lifelong Learning Center.

Speech-to-text is often garbled on television, too. Maybe the jerks can sue the networks, too.

They may move, but the damage to the rest of us is already done. I sure hope the attorneys who represented them send them a LARGE bill for their services.

If you are really interested in what happened here, the above link is a very interesting and long read. Before any more veiled threats are made to "Thank" the named plaintiffs in this case, it might be a good idea to educate yourself on what really happened here.

While it's a long read, the facts are there. The plaintiffs only won on 1 complaint in this suit and that was that the LLC declined to provide interpreters because it was too cost prohibitive. They also sited a lack of certified interpreters in this area. It was stated in depositions that adding the cost to supply the services to the all students tuition, would cause a large drop in enrollment. It was deemed therefore that it was not a viable solution.

It is just called GREED, I feel the parties were just in it to see how much money they could pocket.

Everyone should read the court record, all of it. The court specifically held that the ADA did NOT apply in this case, rather it decided that the "section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act ("RA"), 29 U.S.C. § 794, et seq." was the law which may or may not apply in this case.

The court very specifically rejected all claims that the clubs and rec centers etc are subject to the issues raised by the plaintiffs.

In fact the case revolves over the use of Federal Dollars by the Charter School Corporation in its operations. The use of the Federal Dollars makes it subject to Federal regulations. The court left for a jury to decide whether the cost of sign language interpreters was an undue financial burden for the Lifelong Learning College.

They did try using a speech to text Dragon program but it produced a useless output.

The court held that it was up to a jury to decide

.

And contradicting the claim in the paper that they did everything they could to accommodate the needs of the deaf

And that the cost to provide interpreters according to the defense would be

Did the developer get $64,000/yr of benefit by being able to advertise the LLC as a selling point for The Villages? Could the LLC charge the Developer a $64,000 per year fee for using the name and description of that program and then redirect that advertising income to handicapped services? Seems to me like a tiny additional expense for the Morse empire and a significant loss of a marketing tool.

So there it is. Apparently the Charter School Corporation decided not to go to trial and attempt to win the case but rather closed the LLC. I don't know from the record whether that means the plaintiffs are dismissing their suit or intend to go forward seeking damages for their case. It would seem unlikely they would drop the case as then the LLC could simply reopen under the same conditions, unless of course there was also a cash settlement [speculation]

Llc
 

I have attended classes at LLC. What a horrible self centered cause to shut down something that is enjoyed by so very many. My daughter has SEVERE crohns disease and a colostomy. Perhaps we need to have receptacles for her to empty her bag! Can you tell I am PO'd?

I am horrified but not surprised at the general response to this situation. The law for very good reason requires that public agencies provide services to all citizens in a manner that reasonably allows their participation

These neighbors of ours were unable to utilize the Lifelong Learning College because of a common problem around here, hearing loss. All they asked was that the LLC provide them with a way to learn along side those of us who do not yet have hearing loss, at a reasonable cost to the Charter School which apparently directly or indirectly gets Federal tax dollars as part of its financing.

If the numbers in the paper of 18,000 students a year are correct, for a mere $4 per person they could have covered the cost of interpreters as needed to help our hearing impaired neighbors. That so many on this forum suggest shunning or actively driving these people away because they just wanted to enjoy the same amenities as I can enjoy is so deplorable it needs to be called out. That it took a lawsuit to even attempt to get sign language interpreters in this situation evidences that the defendants preferred to fight rather than accommodate. I am certain that they spent many many years of the cost of providing the service of interpreters on their legal team.

It would have been so much easier, and reflect a concern for the well being of the hard of hearing had the Rohan, Tutt, et al team when first made aware that deaf Villagers wanted to take courses at the LLC had simply said, yes we will get that done. They seem to have installed handicapped lifts in many of the pools so we know that trying to help all of us can sometimes be a goal that is accomplished.

These 32 plaintiffs did NOT take the LLC away from you. They wanted to be with you. The decision to close the LLC lies entirely with the people who run it who could have easily, years ago, or now provide help to the deaf rather than shut the doors.

Another example of how US society has changed to a "minority rule" society. Instead of supporting services for the majority of people now any minority of something can make the majority cow tow to their wishes. Facts do not matter anymore nor do requirements and costs--it is all about the bathroom you can use, your skin color, religious preferences, everyone goes to college and now cancel classes/eliminate a school because one has trouble hearing. When do we wakeup and stop this extreme nonsense?

I think it would be interesting to hear both sides to make an informed opinion. I also think that talking like vigilantes is not useful. Turn all that negative energy into finding out if there are alternate locations and options to continue the good work of the Life Long Learning College. 32 people coming together for a lawsuit may have some legitimacy in their complaints. For heaven sakes, I read on TOTV and Facebook when people write flipping their lids that the grass is brown on the golf courses. Or they do not have the department stores they love. Or that people park poorly. Or that there is not enough variety in restaurants. Or that there is too much music at a swimming pool. Or people are stealing seats in the square. Or they don't like the parking at the hospital. Or they didn't like their doctor. On and On. I do not know what these 32 people were thinking or going after, but they must have had a passion and belief for their issues. Maybe it is not monetary. How do you know? Instead of being threatening about what you would like to do with these plaintiffs, it would be interesting to have them interviewed and given a chance to express what their issues were to go to the extent they did. I would like to know before I form an opinion for or against them or The Villages. Don't take as the gospel everything you read in the newspaper controlled by The Villages, broaden your scope and get all the facts. Maybe The Villages are in the right, but maybe the plaintiffs have some rights as well that were violated. No one knows at this time. I am curious too but non judgemental until I hear the "other" side.

Everyone should take a good look at these names. Will clubs be the next target for these people?

Just noticed the reference information, so now is time to read/study/Understand(?)

I'm not sure the speech to text was useless. It just wasn't 100% perfect. Neither is my closed captioning on my TV. I don't always hear every word when I'm at public functions despite having hearing aids. I often use closed captioning at home. I don't expect perfection. To me the question is what is "reasonable" accommodations. It appears reasonable accommodations were presented but I'm sure the plaintiffs attorneys advised them to find fault with everything. I, too, read the entire motion including where they were seeking compensatory damages. why not just sue to have it corrected to their satisfaction and payment of their legal fees??? it's money.

although I will say, had I been given the opportunity to pay $4/yr. to provide the service and thus keep the LLC, I would have gladly done it. I wonder why that wasn't even presented to the community. Unless there's hope that outrage will allow them to put forth that fee without the populace complaining about it.

I agree with you totally.....well said...

ever heard of no child left behind....
we are not all perfect....some have issues....but we must be all treated equally... and have all opportunities available to the many and not just the few....

Thats why I choose to live in America...

IMHO, these people don't give a rats behind about the ADA, they're on a money hunt--guess I'm the only person who cares about the 200 full time employees who are soon to be unemployed,this means they lose health insurance & their children can't TV charter schools

Amen.

We have been taking classes there since we arrived in 2011. Devastated that so few can ruin something for so many. I hope they are happy. Now nobody has the college.

Very sad that just because people can't get their own way they have to ruin it for everyone.

This guy that started it! Big house on the golf Course!All the money in the world, Makes me so mad.the learning center was a draw for me . Why do these entitled people ruin it for all of us. My husband is mostly deaf, he deals with it he makes some accommodations. He doesn't make others miserable.

No they didn't, they wanted money! Nothing else

I have a question so if you lost your legs would you sue the villages because you can't golf?

My French teacher and her husband teach a combined 45 courses in language, computer skills, and genealogy. So it's a very large part of their income.

That is terrible.. For the families and kids that will be affected...oh wait no one cares about their rights

I believe it's because the developer plays everything so close to the vest. Residents are the last to know about changes. In this case, that may not have been a good thing.