I don’t close my eyes when I sleep. I may not be able to open them in morning.

Why do you think the Government mandates No Lithium Batteries in cargo holes of air planes??? !!!

I worked for a Lithium ion battery manufacturer and while I was on the mechanical side of battery development I do know a little about the chemistry. When you say there are Lithium batteries that combust and some that do not is misnomer. All lithium batteries can combust but to varying degrees. LiFePO4 is the safest chemistry there is that is mass produced but they are still susceptible to thermal runaway but they release heat at a much lower temperature than batteries that contain cobalt and manganese.

I would expect that most lithium batteries in golf carts sold are LiFePO4 chemistry so you probably won't see the fires that you used to see in earlier Lithium ion batteries that used cobalt and manganese. Looking at the damage in the picture it does seem like this was not an outright fire but a lower temperature thermal runaway but it still can do quite a bit of damage.

The safest lithium battery being developed is a solid state battery that does not have a liquid electrolyte as every other lithium battery including LiFePO4. They are having issues with production as it is more complex than an electrolyte battery and the energy density is lower as well. From what I've heard is that by the end of this decade is when they will be ready for mass production.

Fire isn't the only danger when a Lithium battery decides to immolate itself.

This, from the ttclub website (insurers who specialize in freight insurance and who, it can be assumed, know a thing or two about the dangers of lithium battery fires).

The toxicity of gases given off from any given lithium-ion battery differ from that of a typical fire and can themselves vary but all remain either poisonous or combustible, or both. They can feature high percentages of hydrogen, and compounds of hydrogen, including hydrogen fluoride, hydrogen chloride and hydrogen cyanide, as well as carbon monoxide, sulphur dioxide and methane among other dangerous chemicals.

In terms of hazards to the wellbeing of those in the vicinity of such an incident, one particularly problematic component is hydrogen fluoride (HF). Although HF is lighter than air and would disperse when released, a cloud of vapor and aerosol that is heavier than air may be formed (EPA 1993). On exposure to skin or by inhaling, HF can result in skin burns and lung damage that can take time (hours to weeks) to develop following exposure. HF will be quickly absorbed by the body via skin and lungs depleting vital calcium and magnesium levels in tissues, which can result in severe and possibly fatal systemic effects. The hydrogen content of the released gases can give rise to vapour cloud explosion risks which have the potential to cause significant damage.

Assuming the pictures of the garage damage in an earlier post in this thread is accurate, this can well explain what would appear to be overkill (i.e. sirens, flashing lights, etc.) on the part of the first responders. They know as well as anyone the multiple dangers of a lithium battery fire and are prepared to respond as needed.

I doubt if you could bring a gallon of gasoline either.

Golf Cart Batteries | Dakota Lithium Batteries

chemistry comparison
LifePO4 vs. Lithium Ion Batteries - Dakota Lithium Batteries

education is key and continuing education is how your brain is re-programmed. .[/QUOTE]

One other thing I would add is due your due diligence on who manufacturers the cells in the Dakota Lithium Batteries. There are a lot of companies that make batteries but there are much fewer that produce the cells. They purchase the cells and create the battery around them and some of these are using cheap Chinese cells.

[QUOTE=Topspinmo;2317804]If you only read the Sun, no stories regarding carts on fire will be found. Read the news outside of the Developers hands and you will find MANY- both gas and electric carts. One in Brownwood and one in Lake Sumter made the news a few months ago. Several others (with pictures) have been posted over the years. Some were even posted onto YouTube. I believe Dave and Brenda filmed a cart on fire on their route home. It happens more frequently than you are led to believe.

Totally agree.
Its still a bit of the wild, wild west of products, I totally agree.
Prices are coming down, but not to commodity status yet.

The recommended Chinese mfg of retail batteries, Litime.com, only gives a 5 year warranty, no US presence, drop shipped from China, and email only support with a 12 hour delay. I went with the US Mfg (assembled maybe), US service, and 11 year warranty and 150% of the Litime.com. Figured that was best, as compared to battlebornbatteries.com, which has prices 2X DakotaLithium.com.

Sure cannot find "many" or "several". Two last year? One so far this year but nothing in any news that I've seen so far.

[QUOTE=Bill14564;2318105]It's all relative. Cart fires seem no worse than the number homes a year set fire in the Villages by lightening.

Fake news. There was no lithium fire. A lithium fire burns and burns until it finally burns out which takes a very long time. A golf cart would be totally destroyed as would any structure it was in. There may well have been some small fire but it was not lithium batteries. This rumor just got started by some loser who hates electric vehicles, e-bikes whatever.

[QUOTE=Bill14564;2318105]One every few months in the Villages is SEVERAL by my définition. MANY incidents are reported in the news throughout Florida. I would hate to see more.

It is easy to say, " it will never happen to me." However, news outlets continue to remind GOLF CARTS, BOTH GAS AND ELECTRIC, can quickly catch fire. Some recommend charging outside of your home. As they say, an ounce of prevention.....

I remember seeing a YouTube video with a fireman explaining how golf carts catch on fire. I believe he worked in Palm Beach, Florida. I was unable to locate the video to upload. To my recollection, hydrogen gas emitted into the air when charging a cart sets off detectors in homes.

Reminder. My original post was in response to another that stated: THERE HAS BEEN ZERO NEW STORIES IN TV ABOUT FIRES. This is not true. SEVERAL have indeed been reported in TV. My ability to name a few does not mean there has not been more. There have been MANY reports throughout Florida. How many news casts or articles will it take for one to understand cart fires happen more often than believed? I find it strange that some do not even believe an eyewitness. (OP)

It will take more than the ZERO news stories about electric cart fires in the Villages for me to believe that cart fires happen frequently.

I remember two news stories about cart fires in the Villages last year. If there were more, find a third and I will accept that there were three stories about cart fires.

I do not remember any stories about electric cart fires in the Villages last year. There has been speculation and accusation, even going so far as to ignore the information in the reporting about gasoline running down the road and STILL claiming it was a lithium cart fire.

Lithium cart fires likely do happen. Some don't get reported in any papers, I don't read all the papers, and I could have missed one. But there sure are not a lot of lithium cart fires and not more than gasoline cart fires, at least here in the Villages.

As far as believing the eyewitness... I believe there were fire engines and sirens which is what the eyewitness reported. I believe the garage door was cut from that home and that there is obvious smoke damage to the automobile. I believe the cart in the picture is likely an Evolution lithium cart. But I do not know if the lithium battery was the cause of the fire or even involved in the fire.

If the lithium battery was involved in this fire, then it is clear that it did not cause the catastrophic damage that is demonstrated in the YouTube and Tik-Tok videos.

[QUOTE=margaretmattson;2318118]yes, we count fires on our fingers, between several to many, a lot if toes are included. But the only measure of safety is the relative proportion of fire to population. There is a very high number of golf carts in TV, in absolute and relative to other areas the same size in the rest of FL. Ergo, there will be more fires, which we count, even if there is the same or lower relative proportional of cart fires, both gas and electric, or even at a constant level of safety, accidents happen.

Just follow common safety procedures, and keep all your equipment properly maintained, and replace old or worn out equipment, including chargers and power controllers, and sometimes cheaper is not the best with electrical charging and control equipment.

can we please get back to some serious speculation and hyperbole where eye witnesses are not available and facts are non existent?

A neighbor had a car catch on fire (complete loss) due to a Chinese USB lithium battery pack left plugged in the car.

Similar to incidents reported on aircraft.

The recent golf cart fires here in the Villages were gas carts. In most of the cases the owner fills up the cart with gas and either they spill some on the engine or they don't tighten the gas cap properly and as they drive off, gas spills on the engine and catches fire. We spoke to the fire department chief and they have only put out gas cart fires recently, no electric carts. No this isn't to say that electric carts and cars or even hybrid cars with batteries can't catch fire but it's very rare. More likely, people by these lithium starter batteries from Amazon, who knows where they were made, and these for sure raise the risk of fire if not used properly.

Most important question to me is, "was anyone hurt"?

Let us remember that in 1905 the infernal combustion engine was "scaring" the horses. Batteries for cars, trucks, golf cart, motorcycles and bicycles are MERELY in their INFANCY. Battery technology will improve - I can guarantee that ! Why pray-tell? Because of a laundry list of advantages that E-vehicles have over corresponding infernal combustion engines. To name a few.........the E-engine has about one-third the parts of the IC engine. The E-engine turns in a circle vs up and down for the ICE. The battery vehicle like a Tesla has a LOWER CENTER OF GRAVITY than an IC engine vehicle. Lower Center of Gravity makes acceleration, de-acceleration (aka
braking) and cornering WAY better.
.........Battery technology will improve just like IC engine vehicles improved from 1910 until today. The FUTURE is bright for ELECTRIC vehicles.

[QUOTE=Altavia;2318107]And each year there will be more lightning because the Atlantic and Gulf waters will be warmer. Warm air produces more clouds and more cloud friction produces more lightning "sticks".

Looks like this was a successful April 1 prank.

Well done.

I've had a Lithium Powered Golf cart for 4 years now. Leave it plugged-in every time it's parked in my garage as recommended by Club Car. Never had a problem. Let's not disparage all Lithium Powered Golf Carts because of this fire. Let's ID the problem, Manufacturer? After-Market Battery? DIY Conversion to Lithium?

Lol
 

As much as Global Warming!

The fake part is you Dr stating it was a lithium cart fire. Where is your proof?

Investigation
 

Why is proof needed? Here is the incident number to use at your leisure. You aren’t logical in approach. SCSO24CAD034602

Proof is needed because without it I can write that I heard there were fire engines in Citrus Grove on 3/31. The report was of a lithium car fire but it turned out to be something else. There was a lot of smoke damage to the SUV and golf cart that were in the garage and the garage door was cut out to access the fire but no one was injured.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA IF THE ABOVE IS TRUE. But without proof, I have absolutely no idea if it is false either.

Access
 

How do you access that? It appears it was a muttered response? Lady Lake, Sumter and Lake County Border, both counties responded? Located in Wildwood? Too many questions.

Mutual aid...not uncommon across the country

I do not know how to access that but I do know:
- it is a Sumter County Sheriff's Office (SCSO) number
- The sequence number is correct for an incident on 3/31
- This particular number does not appear on the only page I found that lists SCSO numbers
- Even the page I found gives no details beyond date and time