[Pturner]

I do not agree with the original poster's rant.

By his own account, he would have needed, and he expected, numerous departments of TV to be available to his committee for planning and support. By his own account, he expected TV to make many of arrangements and to plan at least the fund-raising and "name" concert events. He made no mention of plans to pay for any of this. By his own admission, there were "other alternate proposal forthcoming from The Developer". By his own admission, "on every solemn occassion, ie. Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and other fitting days a moving and fitting ceremony has been held at the Developer donated Veterans Memorial Park."

Yet he insinuated that Mark Morse is indifferent to veterans.

So, I believe that criticisms he has received for the content of his post have been well deserved. But criticizing his right to post it merely because it was his first post-- no way.

He only told one side of the story and many of us felt he did not substantiate his harsh criticisms. Many of us have said so. This is a discussion board and expressing our opinions on such things is what we do. Would his exact same post have been any more or less deserving of rebuke or praise had he posted three times before or three thousand?

Would the exact same post by me pass muster, even though it be one-sided and not well substantiated, merely because I'm a regular contributor? No Way.

[dillywho]

Well said, PT. You said exactly what I was trying to figure out how to say. He is entitled to his opinion and should not be bashed for speaking out.

Both my sons are retired military and my husband also served. I, too, think that the poster does not have all his ducks in a row and makes many statements about Mark Morse's motives/feelings, etc. regarding veterans without backing them up. The Developer is not Mark Morse but a family business and has been very instrumental in doing things for our veterans. How does this guy know that Morse or any of his family did not serve or are not doing so now?

It still doesn't seem to be coming out right (what I am trying to say) so I'd best defer to PT....she's got it down. Thanks again, Lady.

[Challenger]

I also feel that there is another side to this story. I served many years in the mlitary and believe that those who gave "the last full measure" should be honored at appropriate times and in and in a manner fitting their sacrifice. That being said it is unfortunate that those who have a different opinion of how and under what conditions a land owner should use his property , would demean him and his motives in a public forum.

[golf2140]

Originally Posted by Pturner

I do not agree with the original poster's rant.

By his own account, he would have needed, and he expected, numerous departments of TV to be available to his committee for planning and support. By his own account, he expected TV to make many of arrangements and to plan at least the fund-raising and "name" concert events. He made no mention of plans to pay for any of this. By his own admission, there were "other alternate proposal forthcoming from The Developer". By his own admission, "on every solemn occassion, ie. Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and other fitting days a moving and fitting ceremony has been held at the Developer donated Veterans Memorial Park."

Yet he insinuated that Mark Morse is indifferent to veterans.

So, I believe that criticisms he has received for the content of his post have been well deserved. But criticizing his right to post it merely because it was his first post-- no way.

He only told one side of the story and many of us felt he did not substantiate his harsh criticisms. Many of us have said so. This is a discussion board and expressing our opinions on such things is what we do. Would his exact same post have been any more or less deserving of rebuke or praise had he posted three times before or three thousand?

Would the exact same post by me pass muster, even though it be one-sided and not well substantiated, merely because I'm a regular contributor? No Way.

[Talk Host]

Perhaps one can understand why an individual (The original poster) would be bitter. It appears that after a lot of hard work, there was never a complete and understandable reason given for the final rejection. If the facts contained in the original post are to be believed, there was just a sudden end to correspondence.

"A series of e-mails had been sent to Barbara Vesco – Entertainment, Sonny Resmundo – Construction, and Mackie Mccabe – Hospitality requesting a meeting to review the installation and construction details associated with “The Wall” to make sure everyone understood the specifications and show them that there would be no damage to the Polo Field. NO RESPONSE.

The Villages Entertainment Department, The Villages Construction Department were again asked to relook at “The Walls” installation and speak directly to The Vendor so they would fully and completely understand that there would not be any damage to the Polo Field and that there would be no need for $21,000 for sod replacement, and again explaining that the Polo Field was the only viable location for this event. NO RESPONSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would anger me too.

Now, a question!!!! Is this traveling wall a "for profit" enterprise on the part of some entrepreneur? The original poster uses the term "vendor" when referring to the wall. I searched the internet and can't find any information about the actual structure of Vietnam Combat Veterans LTD. If it is a "for profit" venture on somebody's part I can't be so supportive of a community backed program.

When I was still working, I joined a group called "National Association of Radio Talk Show Hosts." When I went to the national convention, I found out it was a private enterprise run by a woman who had no radio background at all.

JLK

[memason]

I've read the original post more times than I am willing to admit. For me, it just doesn't pass the "smell" test. It starts with the thread title: "Mark Morse Kills Veterans Celebration and Vietnam Memorial Wall" which [in my opinion] is misleading and personal.

I have no problem with it being their first post, but I have to wonder; What was the OBJECTIVE of the post ? Certainly, TOTV posters are not going to make any difference in whether this event is staged or not. In my opinion, it was simply an opportunity to bash the Developer. Ironically, since that first posting, they have not been back.

Now, I'll show my cynical side.... I believe this poster is one of our "regular" posters, albeit with a new anonymous identity.

Just saying....

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by memason

I've read the original post more times than I am willing to admit. For me, it just doesn't pass the "smell" test. It starts with the thread title: "Mark Morse Kills Veterans Celebration and Vietnam Memorial Wall" which [in my opinion] is misleading and personal.

I have no problem with it being their first post, but I have to wonder; What was the OBJECTIVE of the post ? Certainly, TOTV posters are not going to make any difference in whether this event is staged or not. In my opinion, it was simply an opportunity to bash the Developer. Ironically, since that first posting, they have not been back.

Now, I'll show my cynical side.... I believe this poster is one of our "regular" posters, albeit with a new anonymous identity.

Just saying....

[SarFred]

FMF Doc, well said.

[BobKat1]

I don't think the OP has been back on here since his/her original post. It would be interesting to hear back with some additional info.

[downeaster]

Originally Posted by memason

I've read the original post more times than I am willing to admit. For me, it just doesn't pass the "smell" test. It starts with the thread title: "Mark Morse Kills Veterans Celebration and Vietnam Memorial Wall" which [in my opinion] is misleading and personal.

I have no problem with it being their first post, but I have to wonder; What was the OBJECTIVE of the post ? Certainly, TOTV posters are not going to make any difference in whether this event is staged or not. In my opinion, it was simply an opportunity to bash the Developer. Ironically, since that first posting, they have not been back.

Now, I'll show my cynical side.... I believe this poster is one of our "regular" posters, albeit with a new anonymous identity.

Just saying....

I agree, memason. As for me, the thread title invalidated the rest of the post. I also agree that the OP may be a regular who will take any opportunity to take a cheap shot at the Developer.

[redwitch]

Boy, we are a suspicious bunch, aren't we? I agree I didn't like the title, but that was the whole point of the post -- to show the poster's viewpoint that Mark Morse squashed something he felt was important. Can't say I agree given the stated facts, but it's not my opinion, it is the OP's opinion.

I can understand the frustration he and his friends felt. It sounds like there was a lot of hard work done in the pre-planning and it sounds like there was no real explanation ultimately given as to why the whole thing was shut down. For the hard work done in to trying to have this occur, they have my sympathies. For the lack of final communication from TV staff, they have my sympathies. For the accusations made here (based simply on conjecture), my condolences. To me, it is counterproductive to accuse a poster of simply posting to bash the Morses or to state the poster is a fraud. All it does is create bad feelings for this site, gives a bad impression to newbies and doesn't help get the facts out, which is what I'm hoping was the true intent of the OP.

I still would like to hear all of the facts; the issues and concerns of TV for ultimately not going through with this; is the traveling wall a business concern?; and so on. Seems the more that is posted that stays on point, the more questions there are. To me, it has become less of an issue as to what Mark Morse wanted or did not want, it has become a mass of questions as to what parts of this project are feasible.

Personally, I would love to have the traveling wall here. For many, the trip to see it in D.C. is impossible either because of physical or financial issues. It would be nice if this could happen.

In the meantime, I will happily support the veterans in other ways. They are my heroes!

[K9-Lovers]

Excellent post, Redwitch.

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by BlueHeronFan

I am a member of the Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 1036 The Villages.
Here is a copy of the email that we received from the Chapter President regarding this matter.I wish to thank each and everyone of you for the vast amount of work done, particularly behind the scenes, on making this event happen.

The Entertainment Department of The Villages went above and beyond with their efforts to make this happen!! and a hardy thank you to them!! When the planning stages were culminated, they took the next step and presented the proposal to Commercial Property Management and that's when proverbial "S" hit the fan. They would not and could not tackle the many Liability issues.

"Plan B" you will note, was hosting at the American Legion, pending approval of their BOD. John Gibbons had other "Duties/Engagement" and did not attend the meeting. Their board decided that they did not have enough "Head Time" to properly host this event.

On Wednesday, March 9,2011, I resubmitted a bare bones request to Commercial Property Management Division, for any site for this project. On Friday, March 11,2011, I received a communication from them that the division explaining, the still overwhelming liability issue with the Wall.

So, lessons learned the hard way, we will be unable to sponsor this project this year.

Thanks again for all your hard work, to each and everyone of you. Lets not sit back and point fingers at anybody for the things that are beyond our control. Like all good soldiers, we pick-up the pieces and move on.

The Moving Wall will be on display at Wickham Park in Melbourne. May 1-8th at the Florida Reunion of Vietnam Veterans. We are in the process of finding those who wish to attend with car pooling dates.

Looking forward to seeing each of you at the April 5th General Membership Meeting. (Election Night)

Please come and cast your vote and i look forward to your continued support.

Alonzo Young, President
VVA Chapter 1036
The Villages

I am bumping this post not to put my 2 cents in on this topic, but because it seems to me after reading posts, that the content of this posting has been overlooked or ignored at least in part and attention should be brought to it. I may be wrong, but several posts seem not to support that I am.

[Pturner]

On a side note, I would encourage anyone who hasn't, to consider a trip to visit the Vietnam Memorial.

Although I haven't seen the traveling replica, I wonder if it could begin to evoke as intense an emotional response as seeing the Wall in context. In context-- and it was very much designed in context-- it utterly takes your breath away. The calm, the scope, the depth, the surroundings of national symbols, the quiet private tributes at it's base, the solemn, slightly audible weeping of fellow visitors. It's almost unbearable yet comforting at the same time. The loss feels so personal, the sacrifice so great, the taste of freedom so immediate and real.

I wonder if a road show could do it justice and if anyone who saw the road show first would be ever so slightly cheated upon a first visit to the sacred ground of the actual Wall.

[rubicon]

How many Republican candidates and authors pitching their latest writing were welcomed to TV? How much did it cost to get them here? Who eventually paid their bills? How many people did they draw from the outside? Were these Republican candidate and authors subject to attack or risk? Did the TV liability exposure increase with their presence? It would take an excess surplus line insurance company to cover these events. Who eventually paid these huge premuims? Who benefited most and gained worldwide exposure from the televised poltical events of these world renowed personalities.

Do you suppose Mark Morse said to them " If you want to campaign or have a book signing in TV 50% of your proceeds have to go to the Moffitt Center? I think not.

In reviewing the original posters article did you even get a hint from the Developer, of this is an important event and we can manage it with the following changes........? Or did it end with a rejection Moffitt contribution proposal?

I do not have a personal like or dislike as relates to the Developer. To me its all about business and if you look closely at many of his transactions a repeating theme emerges from the 2003 Bond Issue v IRS, to Freedom Pointe, Moffitt Center and right down to even moving bison and more. Its more than just an attempt to maximize profits, its the detached attittude Suffice is to say we have paid more than we realize for the priviledge of "The Village Lifestyle". So we better enjoy it.

One more item it is beneficial to all of us to be able to speak our minds and to have different points of view. It has proven benefical for instance to have people who are optimistic and those who are pesstimistic. Both types fit our needs Optimists fill a need of what can be accomplsihed but in their enthusiasm often lose sight of the pitfalls and it is pestimist who tread carefully looking out for those thins that would cause our failure. so when I read a response to the effect of "if you don't like it move out" it leaves me to wonder. Thank God he made us all different.