[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by Tom359

I know a person that has been saying for months that the "actual science" does not match reality. They pointed me to this CDC report that came out on June 29th that says up >10x more people have been exposed to the virus and DID NOT CONTRACT it. They are not "asymptomatic carriers", it did not infect them. Unfortunately, none of the commercially available tests show this, it takes some very precise lab work to process these non-infected cases. This proves the infection rate is MUCH lower than ever thought. The model is a joke, garbage in, garbage out. So if we "must follow the science", here it is. I expect the media will jump all over this very positive news. <sarcasm>
Commercial Laboratory Seroprevalence Surveys | Coronavirus | COVID-19 | CDC

I guess the question is - how much more proof do we need that this virus is not nearly as deadly as once feared? All of this mask wearing feels like enabling hysteria to me. Actual science is telling us that things are not that bad.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by charlieo1126@gmail.com

I didn’t expect there to be any more augments about wearing mask , after all the president was on TV last night saying we should wear one and that he wears one all the tim except when he’s standing alone ( sigh)

He's a politician with an election coming up. He's wearing a mask to appease the folks who want to see masks worn. That's pretty much it.

When I wear a mask I do it not because I believe that masks are really necessary but to make the fearful less fearful. I'm conflicted as to whether or not that is actually the right thing to do because I really do not like the precedent this is setting.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

He's a politician with an election coming up. He's wearing a mask to appease the folks who want to see masks worn. That's pretty much it.

When I wear a mask I do it not because I believe that masks are really necessary but to make the fearful less fearful. I'm conflicted as to whether or not that is actually the right thing to do because I really do not like the precedent this is setting.

I have a picture of two delightful people, married to each other for more than fifty years, in good health for an 80 and 81 year old, and who lived in Ohio until three weeks ago when they both died of Covid-19 within seven days of each other. Then two dear friends, sisters, who live here in The Villages were healthy until they joined a group of ten to celebrate St. Patricks day at Orange Blossom Restaurant. One was in ICU for ten days and the other was very, very sick at home and had to be taken to the ER in the ambulance for dehyration.

It is real. It is new. It harms and kills, but not everyone. It is kind of like a serial killer, lurking and waiting. People can decide to get locks (masks) or not...............

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Swoop

So screw the server, as long as you, the patron of the restaurant don’t get the virus, the greater good has been served?

The solution was given above in Post #5. Perhaps you didn't see it.

[duffer4384]

I'm sure the server wears a mask as a requirement by their employer to work. According to those that are supposed to know, the age group of most servers put them in a low risk category, but they can be carriers and spread it to their more vulnerable clientele. You work, you want tips, you have customers willing to take a chance and eat out, catch twenty two.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I have a picture of two delightful people, married to each other for more than fifty years, in good health for an 80 and 81 year old, and who lived in Ohio until three weeks ago when they both died of Covid-19 within seven days of each other. Then two dear friends, sisters, who live here in The Villages were healthy until they joined a group of ten to celebrate St. Patricks day at Orange Blossom Restaurant. One was in ICU for ten days and the other was very, very sick at home and had to be taken to the ER in the ambulance for dehyration.

It is real. It is new. It harms and kills, but not everyone. It is kind of like a serial killer, lurking and waiting. People can decide to get locks (masks) or not...............

I'm very sorry for your losses, I totally understand that having your friends impacted by this virus has really hit home and made this virus very real to you. I've got a mom who lives in an Independent living community (not assisted living/nursing). Even before the Coronavirus came along the ambulance came to that facility at least once a day, sometimes multiple times in a day. Once you get to a certain age, that happens. My mom has met and lost friends, none of them to the Coronavirus. They have taken serious precautions where she lives and they thankfully have had no cases of this virus. But the ambulance still comes daily just as it did before this outbreak. And it will continue to come after this virus goes away.

I also have young adult children who have their entire lives ahead of them. They need to work and get an education so that they will be able to provide for their own families one day and save for their own retirements. Children need to play and go to school with their friends. They need to have fun family trips to places like Disney World. Is it morally right for a high risk group to expect a low risk group to give up their own freedom in the small chance that it actually benefits the higher risk group in some way? Is it morally right for people who have the security of guaranteed retirement income to expect businesses to close or operate at greatly reduced capacity causing hardworking people to lose their jobs all in the name of safety? Especially if the people losing everything aren't at much risk from the virus anyway?

I'm not a whippersnapper myself anymore and I feel as though I'm balancing in the middle of a teeter totter. Maybe it's better to let people decide what their own risk factors are and mitigate their own risks accordingly. I think we will ALL have much bigger problems if we don't do just that.

[Altavia]

Doubtful anyone's mind will be changed regarding masks at this point.

But what do you tell friends and family if you contract the disease and have to tell them they are at risk because of you? What answer do you give if they ask if you wore a mask.

Or how would someone feel if they contracted COVID, infected a loved one and lost that person to the disease.

What answer would you give your grandchildren when they ask if you wore a mask or not around grandma before she contracted The disease from you?

[oldtimes]

You cannot get into a doctor's office without wearing a mask.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I'm very sorry for your losses, I totally understand that having your friends impacted by this virus has really hit home and made this virus very real to you. I've got a mom who lives in an Independent living community (not assisted living/nursing). Even before the Coronavirus came along the ambulance came to that facility at least once a day, sometimes multiple times in a day. Once you get to a certain age, that happens. My mom has met and lost friends, none of them to the Coronavirus. They have taken serious precautions where she lives and they thankfully have had no cases of this virus. But the ambulance still comes daily just as it did before this outbreak. And it will continue to come after this virus goes away.

I also have young adult children who have their entire lives ahead of them. They need to work and get an education so that they will be able to provide for their own families one day and save for their own retirements. Children need to play and go to school with their friends. They need to have fun family trips to places like Disney World. Is it morally right for a high risk group to expect a low risk group to give up their own freedom in the small chance that it actually benefits the higher risk group in some way? Is it morally right for people who have the security of guaranteed retirement income to expect businesses to close or operate at greatly reduced capacity causing hardworking people to lose their jobs all in the name of safety? Especially if the people losing everything aren't at much risk from the virus anyway?

I'm not a whippersnapper myself anymore and I feel as though I'm balancing in the middle of a teeter totter. Maybe it's better to let people decide what their own risk factors are and mitigate their own risks accordingly. I think we will ALL have much bigger problems if we don't do just that.

There are two different arguments here, each completely different than the other. Of course any thinking person is aware and worried about the impact of a pandemic on the economy and on the very livelihood and substance of existence that is impacted. Especially people who are older and can see and relate to many ups and downs in the nations economy they personally have witnessed over the many decades they have lived.. It is very clear to us disposables that indeed the economy is impacted and most everyone is willing to do whatever they can to keep products and services moving and people paid. Because it all relates to all of us. The economy must be protected in all ways.

The second issue is wearing of masks and whether or not it is saving any lives and is it saving lives of the younger and "cough cough" more valuable people??? After all as was stated, the old are going to kick the bucket soon anyway.

Truth is the damned virus is mutating and may be working on killing a lot of younger, more attractive and vibrant people than just the old fogies. It may even have it's sites set on little tiny adorable infants.

I think that it is wise to wear a mask and try to keep those ******* Covid-19's at bay as much as we can. No matter how young or old we are.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by Robbie0723

Doubtful anyone's mind will be changed regarding masks at this point.

But what do you tell friends and family if you contract the disease and have to tell them they are at risk because of you? What answer do you give if they ask if you wore a mask.

Or how would someone feel if they contracted COVID, infected a loved one and lost that person to the disease.

What answer would you give your grandchildren when they ask if you wore a mask or not around grandma before she contracted The disease from you?

If I were symptomatic I would stay home. If I was driving a high risk person around or had close contact with them, I would wear a mask. But, my high risk mom for instance, also takes personal responsibility for her own well being. She shops at the grocery store during the high risk hours, has no real desire to go to crowded venues, the activities in her retirement facility have basically ground to a halt. Some people have moved out of that facility and gone elsewhere because of the lack of social interaction - why continue to pay for something that you aren't getting? Some people have decided to stay put and wait for this virus to pass, the sooner the better. Risk vs Reward. My mom is an extrovert and has managed to find ways to keep herself busy that don't put her at heightened risk. We visit her mostly outside.

If Mom moved into my house and expected the same sort of restricted lifestyle we would have a problem. My young adult kids are working, engaging in activities and are in and out of the house. I am around other people, some wearing masks, some not wearing masks. Have we been exposed to the virus? Probably. But we've never had any symptoms. If we were symptomatic we would stay home. Period.

I follow the rules in any given store or business and wear a mask if I am requested to. But otherwise I don't really think about it.

[asianthree]

Good newS no one is complaining that the bridges are not open.

I have more on my plate than who chooses to wear a mask. I wear one 16 hours straight, once I am out of facility I have 8 hours to breathe normal.

Most mask wearing is inconsistent with how to wear one. I don’t expect anyone to try to protect me.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

There are two different arguments here, each completely different than the other. Of course any thinking person is aware and worried about the impact of a pandemic on the economy and on the very livelihood and substance of existence that is impacted. Especially people who are older and can see and relate to many ups and downs in the nations economy they personally have witnessed over the many decades they have lived.. It is very clear to us disposables that indeed the economy is impacted and most everyone is willing to do whatever they can to keep products and services moving and people paid. Because it all relates to all of us. The economy must be protected in all ways.

The second issue is wearing of masks and whether or not it is saving any lives and is it saving lives of the younger and "cough cough" more valuable people??? After all as was stated, the old are going to kick the bucket soon anyway.

Truth is the damned virus is mutating and may be working on killing a lot of younger, more attractive and vibrant people than just the old fogies. It may even have it's sites set on little tiny adorable infants.

I think that it is wise to wear a mask and try to keep those ******* Covid-19's at bay as much as we can. No matter how young or old we are.

I am really sorry if I came across as uncaring or thinking that old people are less valuable than young people are. That is simply not the truth. I simply am saying that the young working people are at an entirely different life stage and have different worries than those of us entering or in retirement. The virus simply is not a big risk to most young people but some of the restrictions being imposed on our businesses are impacting them greatly and to their detriment.

Maybe restaurants could reopen at full capacity and have special high risk hours for those who prefer stricter social distancing measures. Same thing with stores, gyms, rec centers, country clubs.

How do we find a middle ground where we can assess and manage our own risk factors?

[canyonblue]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

How do we find a middle ground where we can assess and manage our own risk factors?

I think this video does a great job explaining this.....

[maybe]

Originally Posted by jcrose19337

Has everyone forgotten that the CDC initially told us mask wearing wasn't necessary and could even be counter-productive in the prevention/spread of this new disease?

(The mind staggers when seeing some of the filthy face coverings some people are walking around with and to know how many germs are being harbored right there on their face.)

Now, the CDC tell us how absolutely necessary mask wearing is.

So, were they lying to us then or are they lying to us now?

--------------
Initially doctors thought that if you had the infection you'd feel sick and know it, and therefore stay home, so no need to wear a mask for protection of others. Now they know you can be infected and not know it, therefore everyone should wear a mask in public to help protect others. As to protecting yourself, a typical cloth mask offers only a small degree of protection, and the N95 masks, which do offer you good protection, were in especially short supply and needed by doctors, nurses, etc.
I don't think they lied, but have changed positions based upon the change in what facts are known. The known facts now are that wearing even the typical cloth mask can protect you a little, and protect others a great deal, so when you are around other people, especially indoors, you should wear one.

[EdFNJ]

Originally Posted by Robbie0723

Doubtful anyone's mind will be changed regarding masks at this point.

But what do you tell friends and family if you contract the disease and have to tell them they are at risk because of you? What answer do you give if they ask if you wore a mask.

Or how would someone feel if they contracted COVID, infected a loved one and lost that person to the disease.

What answer would you give your grandchildren when they ask if you wore a mask or not around grandma before she contracted The disease from you?

That person would yell "IT'S WAS TYRANNY TO MAKE US WEAR A MASK!" the heck with gramma or [fill in the blank]."