Talk of The Villages Florida - Morse Blvd. Traffic study

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- - Morse Blvd. Traffic study (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/morse-blvd-traffic-study-343372/)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patzy (Post 2248556)

Not looking for police on Morse. Recommending automatic ticketing which doesn't require any law enforcement presence.

Just say no to constant monitoring, automatic ticketing, ugly boxes on the side of the road, and another way for Govt to spend tax dollars. Repeal the speed camera law for school zones, don't expand it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2248567)

I disagree. I don't like speeders to go unchecked.

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Originally Posted by Laker14 (Post 2248546)

I've read many of those links and what you fail to mention in your repeated references to the issue is that they are referring to drivers who drive " 10mph below the average speed" being 6 times more likely to be involved in an accident.
This being especially a problem on multi-lane roads with the slow driver in the left lane.
What they don't mention is the degree of severity of the accidents and how the severity relates to the speed of the vehicle. They do mention that a significant number of the accidents that are "caused" by slow drivers are the result of impatience on the part of drivers stuck behind slow drivers.

Also, they discuss that slow drivers are often poor drivers, and distracted drivers. Those most likely to drive excessively slowly are older drivers who don't see well, feel intimidated by driving fast, and brand new drivers who aren't yet comfortable in fast traffic.
As dangerous as they are, we really don't want them driving faster.

What your incessant claim that slow drivers are more dangerous than speeders doesn't acknowledge (EVER) is that it is not the overall speed of the driver that makes them dangerous, it's the difference between the speed of the slow driver and the general flow of traffic that makes them dangerous. So, if we are talking about I-95, we have one set of circumstances, and if we are talking about Buena Vista Blvd we have another. The speed limit on BV is 35. If that were enforced at 40mph, we'd see fewer cars going 50, and the poor soul going 30 in the right lane wouldn't be such a danger.

Now, onto the topic at hand: Morse, north of 466. Nowhere in any of your links do they apply this "slow drivers are more dangerous than speeders" logic to roadways shared with golf cars. Again, the speed limit is not enforced. If it were, you'd have less of a differential of speeds between the golf cars and the big cars, and that I would make it safer.

Surprisingly, I agree with most of that. Most of the problems with slow drivers ARE on high speed highways. And differential speed does determine severity. I have driven that segment of Morse a lot and rarely see ridiculous speeds. Also, the thread was primarily addressing the crossover southbound at the 466 gate, where speed isn’t really an issue since cars are either slowing down for the southbound gate or just coming through the northbound gate. I think I already posted what happens there. As far as not wanting unskilled drivers to go any faster, I’ll go further and state that I don’t want them driving at all
I’m just not a big fan of Draconian solutions to relatively minor problems

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2248567)

I say, "Just say yes".

Let the LEOs tackle things that cannot be handled by a camera while slowing down those that can't obey traffic laws and collecting fines to pay for the devices. A win-win-win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 2248752)

I say, "Just say yes".

Let the LEOs tackle things that cannot be handled by a camera while slowing down those that can't obey traffic laws and collecting fines to pay for the devices. A win-win-win.

Oh. I forgot, making the road safer for golf carts. Make that win-win-win-win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2248444)

Nice post, unfortunately it loses most of its meaning once you realize that statistically slow drivers cause more accidents than speeders

I agree that slow car drivers cause automobile accidents on roads and slow golf cart drivers cause golf cart accidents on the MMPs. However, when cars and golf carts are forced to share the road, speeding automobiles present a very significant danger to golf carts. Controlling automobiles from speeding on Morse Blvd. between 466 and El Camino Real, where automobiles and golf carts are required to co-exist on a busy section of road, would definitely make it safer for golf carts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2248560)

A lot to dispute in the missing section but I'm confident others will take care of that.

In this paragraph I really wonder: Most (all?) of the cart/car accidents involve the cart pulling into the path of an automobile. Most (all?) of the injuries are due to the cart occupant being ejected from the cart. So if enforcing or lowering the speeds of the big cars will make it safer then how low do those speeds need to go? At what speed would a car need to be traveling such that it would be safe for a golf cart to pull into its path with less possibility that the occupant would be ejected?

Let's start with the posted speeds of 30 for cars and 20 for golf carts. I will assume that traffic management engineers determined these speeds to be a safe combination for the situation. However, we have no way to know since these speeds are not used or enforced. So, let's police to the existing postings without playing hypothetical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patzy (Post 2248788)

A 3,000lb automobile traveling 30mph and hitting the 600lb golf cart that turned in front of it is not going to have a safe outcome - nothing hypothetical about that.

I would not make that assumption about traffic engineers. Given the Villages was creating a golf cart community and the laws say golf carts cannot travel on roads with a speed limit above 30mph, I think it is highly likely that the current 30mph limit was chosen to allow the carts. This would also be consistent with Morse (below 466) and Buena Vista being set at 35mph rather than 45mph. 35mph is high enough to keep golf carts off the roads but low enough to allow LSVs.

But sure, police the area to crack down on the speeders and see if that makes any difference at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2244475)

Totally agree! The Village’s has the absolute worst drivers I have ever seen in my long life, whether it be by automobile, bicycle, or golf cart. And that’s coming from someone whose northern home is Massachusetts, where drivers in the eastern part of the state are referred to as Massholes! I always assume all other drivers are complete idiots and are going to do the absolutely most stupid thing possible. The last thing I want to do is get into an accident and wind up in what is probably the worst Emergency Room in the entire country.

Just spent two weeks visiting Massachusetts and New Hampshire. Easy part of driving up there is you pretty much know how they drive and what to expect. Here your defensive driving skills are increased three fold!:22yikes:

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Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2244602)

Never understood why Morse is a two land road north of 466 and Buena Vista build as four land road.

Same here and I often wonder why the golf cart path running partially down Morse wasn't ran all the way to the crossover by the cart bridge. There was plenty of room to do it and the underground power could have been ran under like they did along the BV path.

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2248444]Nice post, unfortunately it loses most of its meaning once you realize that statistically slow drivers cause more accidents than speeders[/QUO

If slow you mean the speed limit, then not sure your quote is correct from reviewing national & state statistics. If you mean severely under the speed limit then there could be some truth. But in any case it is against the law and we are suppose to be a nation of laws and fine upstanding citizens that obey the law.

In any case the Morse issues should be looked at in the same light as other roadways in The Villages. Live off of St Charles road and the speed limit on that road is the same as Morse. The traffic is probably not quite as heavy but none the less it is an extremely busy street with a lot of people going over the speed limit. It would also have a greater safety issue as the curb by the cart path is almost(I said almost) impossible to go over should evasive action be required. Not sure but would put a guess that there are far fewer golfcart wrecks on St Charles than Morse Blvd. Would lead one to assume that it is not the roadway that is the issue. There are issues and resolutions that need to be resolved but it cannot be that an inanimate object, the road, is the cause of accidents.

I live in Rio Ponderosa. I can remember when there was no red light at San Marino and Morse Blvd., so Thank goodness for that being added! Returning from my mail station to home (heading north from west side of Morse) requires timing and patience!

Unfortunately there is no cost effective way to fix the whole corridor between 466 and Rio Grande (or even El Camino Real). The crossover of cart traffic going south just north of 466 is an accident waiting to happen! 2 car lanes heading North on Morse trying to merge into 1 while golf carts trying to cross their path! The cars are actually vying against each to get there first, while us in Carts just watch! WTF! I’d like to see a permanent solution for that area!

FYI I appreciate the Clyde Long (may he RIP yes I knew and Loved him!) golf path solution for folks to access our Mail Station for the Villa De La Vista North folks! It is actually a one way boardwalk for the golf carts to use to access the mail Station along the west side of Morse heading North.
Something like that is a REAL solution!

Maybe something as simple as 25 speed limit or even 20 for autos on that strip of Morse. Could that make merging safer? Maybe reduce thru traffic?

Just trying to keep it simple and cheap and safe for us folk that need to use that corridor everyday!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishnFool (Post 2249666)

Unfortunately there is no cost effective way to fix the whole corridor between 466 and Rio Grande (or even El Camino Real).

That is exactly why many of us did not buy a house that requires us to drive on that section of Morse Road.

Before we moved here in 2016, people on TOTV warned everyone about that section of Morse Road, and we paid attention to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by npwalters (Post 2244671)

sadly this is was a dead issue when Sumter county refused to share any part of the cost. The basic problem, however, was the poor vision by the developers that put cars and carts on the same major thoroughfare. Fortunately they learned that lesson south of 466,

Nah, look at Meggison near Sawgrass just before it hits all straightaway to 470. It’s shared with lines for golf carts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2245467)

Has anybody got a dime?
I don’t got a dime
I got nothing.

Good song from Boz Scaggs, Loan me a Dime.