No idea what you are referring to; Warm Springs is nowhere near where the Walmart is going in....

Where?
 

I’m not sure where you are talking about. Waxman will be the entrance to Walmart off of Morse. It’s located between Villages Grown and Walmart but a light can’t go in there. There is a traffic light literally a couple hundred yards from the intersection. Two lights in succession for such a short distance would be a traffic nightmare.

The diagrams on pages 25 and 26 of the report would seem to indicate otherwise. And yes, that will likely make the traffic issues at 44 even worse.

That access wasn’t put in so Villagers could get to the retail establishments, it’s there so Villages residents can get to important medical facilities/offices on the other side of the infamous gate with no little red button. Access to the retail establishments is a bonus windfall to Villagers living in the area. The developer wanted to block off that access to prevent non Villagers from bursting the bubble, but after a revolt they instead put in the gate that can only be opened with a Villages issue gate card. It’s not an unusual occurrence for the gate to forcefully become compromised by non Villagers who feel that they are entitled to access despite not being ammenity fee paying residents.

Like the light at Morse and San Marino and the one at Morse and Rio Grande?

Big problem with this is that Chitty Chatty borders the west bound 44 lane so we would still be no better off, in fact we’d be far worse off as U-turning on 44 is even more dangerous.

borders the east bound lane. Do be careful.

Looking at the proposed plans the author has included a fraudian slip.... refer to the plans in Appendix C eg. the author is anticipating a car crash!!!!

Debate in CC is that the proposed option is the worst idea... maybe that was the intent all along. Actually the only financially viable option is to do nothing for now.

In 2022 there was only one crash at the junction and one in 2023. In 2024 there were 4 (per the report, page 5). Two crashes were just before the CC junction and two after. So let's see if this increases once Walmarts opens, and then re-assess... Which in reality, is potentially the best option for now.

So lets think of the practicality of the recomended solution here. A person exiting Chitty Chatty must, from 0MPH accelerate to 45MPH, cross into the fast lane and hit the brakes as they arrive at the Fire Station entrance to perform a U Turn in just 0.19 miles (1017 feet).... And nobody is expecting an increase in accidents here? No disrespect - but lets face it... most residents are old and their reaction times are not those of a teenager at a drag strip....

Oh one other point to mention is that CC residents have no feeder lane in the proposed plans, and the speed limit on this section is 45 MPH (reality its far higher). So residents will need to accelerate and wheel spin out the junction to reach the 55MPH (min) that everyone else will be doing at the section of the road...

Hence refer again to the proposed plans in section C of the report... has the car on Warm Springs stopped to let out a CC resident (location of 2 accidents in 2024) or will it hit the accelerating CC resident after they have exited from CC (location of 2 accidents in 2024)? What's the stopping distance of a car doing 55 MPH when it sees the CC resident who has just exited CC?

Very common here in Michigan and not a big deal. They work quite well.

they work well when you have the time and distance to safely approach them . As ashley of the uk correctly points out less than a fifth of a mile from a zero start and crossing over 2 lanes is mission impossible for some cruisers

Traffic Backups
 

How will the traffic backups already occurring be solved? Most of us have been at the Kristine Way/ Morse circle waiting a couple of lights because of the jam caused directly by the circle. And many of us have experienced the northbound Morse jam at 44 / Morse to at least the fire station.

If there was additional traffic due to the additional desire for vehicles to go to the Walmart, how bad could it get? Additionally, what about winter traffic? The academic geometry calculations don’t necessarily pan out as pragmatic reality. What about the Warm Springs/Morse traffic flow change? Will more people be going northward now from the Fenney Marshbend area? The Continental CC will be impacted for those who use 44.

A plus, less Villager traffic will go eastbound on 44 towards Thomas to patron the Walmart off of 27. Also there is certainty that Bexley circle will swell with traffic due to new residential development.

The planning shows addition of lights on main entrances on Morse and a second on 44 at the western entrance. 0.3 & 0.5 mi respectfully from the Morse/44 intersection.

The first thing I was told when buying a home in The Villages, make sure you can exit from your Village into a roundabout or a stop light.

Yep
 

Yes, and traffic already backs up to those intersections before Walmart even opens. Imagine waiting for each light when no one is going nowhere. Maybe widening or adding lanes needs to be done soon? 44 will eventually need widened anyway. It’s a matter of time before Morse needs the same.

I read that The Villages Grown greenhouses will be relocated to a more northern location. This may make southern access to the new Walmart easier.

Would you refuse to stop for a fire truck with its lights and sirens on? Do you know anyone who would refuse to stop for it?
If the answer to both is no, then what basis is there to claim others will do it, but only after 9pm?

What did they say when you told them this at one of the many town halls? Curious what their answer was.

If the traffic already backs up at those intersections, then stop lights will not change the backup. They will allow others to safely enter the road, though, reducing the likelihood of an accident.
That is the entire purpose of a stop light - to allow access onto congested roads without having to force your way in.

Look like the analysis expects significant traffic to bypass the Morse/44 intersection using Waxman via the new traffic lights?

No one told us that but we figured it out by ourselves.

That is why we bought a house in Osceola Hills 9 years ago.

Walmart may be just the start. The Villages Map seems to show a lot of commercial development pre-planning for that corner.

In my opinion, the best solution for the Chitty Chatty and Morse intersection is to simply put in a traffic light.

I doubt TV will do it because will be admitting that TV was stupid to build Chitty Chatty like it is.

It’s not TV problem. It’s Sumter County

It’s the current topic of debate and n CC.

I doubt it, also. Especially since TV does not add traffic lights to county roads.

And here lies the next problem

Chat GBT states ….

🚫 Florida State Law Applies Statewide

According to Florida Statutes § 316.1945(1)(b)5:

“No person shall stand or park a vehicle … within 20 feet of the driveway entrance to any fire station and on the side of a street opposite the entrance to any fire station within 75 feet of such entrance (when property signposted).” 

“This includes U‑turns, which inherently involve standing momentarily—which is explicitly prohibited.

Additionally, general traffic guidelines reinforce the restriction:
• “No person shall make a U‑turn in front of the driveway entrance or approaches to a fire station. No person shall use the driveway entrance or approaches to a fire station for the purpose of turning a vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction”

Also reference statute 316.1515. While it does not specifically prohibit u-turns at a fire station (or anywhere else, for that matter), it can be assumed it comes down to how the officer writes the ticket. If you do a search, the AI bots say u-turns in front of a fire station are not allowed in Florida. A citation would be written to say that doing so impeded the movement of rescue apparatus.

So the question is why did the company commissioned
To undertake the report recommend doing a U Turn at the fire station as the preferred option?

There is a traffic light at the intersection of St. James and Bailey Trail. That light was already in place when we moved here in 2016. I suspect the light was put in after TV realized the intersection was unsafe.

I think you meant St. Charles....

And there are at least two lights (so far...) on Central Parkway.

I don’t see any mention of a U-turn in 316.1945, did you add that yourself? Stopping to wait for traffic, whether making a turn or in a long line, is not standing (the action prohibited by the statute).

The company recommended it as the most logical and appropriate means of dealing with traffic that needs to go south.

Yeah, I don't know why I always get confused with the name of that street.

Chitty Chatty entrance/ exit
 

No, we will NOT drive to the Lake Deaton circle to go south. Our only choice is to continue to drive north to the fire station and turn around there. We are very angry about the poor planning and increased traffic that the new southern developments have caused. If a roundabout is too expensive as we were told, there should be a stop light. Traffic on Morse goes much faster than the speed limit. Very angry about this. QUOTE=Normal;2441520]Traffic right now builds up around11-2 at Morse and 44. It will be interesting to see what happens in the winter months and after the Walmart is done. Chitty Chatty and Sandalwood will have to suffer with the one choice flow. It will be nice for the Sandalwood residents because they have a close roundabout if they want to go North. Chitty Chatty wi ll have the arduous trek to Lake Deaton’s circle in order to go South.[/QUOTE]

Did you not know this when you bought your house? If not, could it be anticipated? Traffic on Morse south of 44 has a 45mph speed limit. It has always (AFAIK) been this way. New building brings new traffic. And new retail. Look at the growth on 466A over the last 3 years. We knew it was coming. Not if, but when. Traffic is more congested there than it was 3 years ago, and will prob get worse as more retail goes in.

There will be similar down south as the growth occurs there. If you thought the area you bought would be static forever, it would have mad more sense to purchase in one of the older, more established areas where major changes are more difficult. Even then, no guarantees.

It appears work has started on both new entrances, and they are large piles of material near the NW corner of Morse and 44?

When they first started building in Chitty Chatty, it was obvious to us it would be very difficult to pull out onto Morse Road.

I tried to warn new home buyers. For example, I posted this in 2020.

"I think the very biggest problem with Chitty Chatty is when you leave and try to turn left on route 468.

We drive to the Southern several times a week and we see cars and trucks having a hard time turning left out of Chitty Chatty."

Indicative of No U Turn
 

So if it’s difficult to make a left now, won’t it be more difficult to make a U turn in the future when traffic flow increases?

No.

Left turn
 

There is less traffic now and it’s a fairly long wait when we leave Chitty Chatty to go back towards Sawgrass. What makes you think a left handed U turn will be any easier with the introduction of more traffic?

Yes, it will get harder. There needs to be a traffic light to help drivers get in and out of Chitty Chatty and Sandalwood.

Making a left now requires crossing traffic moving both directions. Making a u-turn only requires merging with traffic in one direction with gaps created by the red lights at 44 and Walmart.