[npwalters]

These are my thoughts and my version of the truth. If a fact is wrong I’m sure there will many to rush in and correct me. I am positive there will be a few that do not live close to the Haceinda Hills site that will disagree with most of what I say. I live about 2 miles from the HH site and am concerned because 1) my neighbors in TV are being disrespected and 2) I realize that if it is done at HH it can be done elsewhere and probably will be. For the lawyers: this is based on my recollections and opinion only.

I attended the meeting with the Special Master for Planning and Zoning for Sumter County on Monday night. I was there. Got there at 5:15 for the 6 o'clock meeting and we got he LAST 3 tickets available to actually get in the room where the meeting took place. The exterior at 5:50 (when I was allowed in) was overflowing. Many folks could not find a place to sit or stand and hear the speakers set up in the lobby and left in frustration. Bear in mind this was at Everglades Recreation Center. South of the turnpike, well away from the areas actually being discussed, and not golf cart accessible to any but those living south of the turnpike. A request was made that the next meeting with the commissioners be held at the Savannah Center. That request was not acknowledged.

The county had the “special master", the chief staff member of the Planning and Zoning Board, and a few staff. The Villages had a Orlando based lawyer, a hired traffic engineer, and VP for something (presumably development). The residents had all the residents that would fit into the venue. The "special master" had the charge to recommend approval/disapproval to the Sumter County Commissioners.

The first few hours were spent hearing argument for/against apartments in the Lake Sumter landing area. That centered around amending the language in the current zoning restrictions to “clarify” that apartments can be built in the existing spaces. No actual plan for where or what was required of the developer. The “special master” recommended approval of the change. NOTE THIS: the developer has identified every second story space in Sumter Landing Town Square as potential apartments. The recommended amendment does NOT restrict similar apartments to only Sumter Landing and does NOT limit it to only the upper floors.

The second half of the 6 hour long meeting discussed the former Hacienda Hills CC site. The proposal was to “clarify” the usage language to allow a multi-story (up to 50 feet) apartment complex on the HHCC site. The developer proposes to put up to 286 apartments, a “resort style” swimming pool, sports courts, a restaurant, walking paths, and parking for all the residents on this approximate 8 acre site. Their lawyer actually said all this with a straight face. The Sumter county “planner”, Mr. Holly, classified this site as LARGE in his statement of facts. He later acknowledged that it is classified it as large since the classification for all the sites in this area are based on SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING.

The special master was repeatedly asked to delay this decision until the facts were clearer. He admitted he had not actually visited HHCC site to view the existing neighborhoods. He was pled with to go lay eyes on the site before a decision was made. He did not acknowledge these requests and recommended approval.

There were at least 60 –I didn’t keep a count – residents that spoke. Some were armed with facts, some told their story of how the apartments are going to affect their homes and the small town Villages lifestyle they bought and planned to live for the remainder of their life, and a few were centered on ancillary issues such as the valid concern for increased traffic on Morse Blvd and lack of adequate water resources.

There were NO residents that spoke in favor. Sumter County sent letters to the 68 homes within 500 yards of the proposed apartments. 60 responded and ALL were opposed. This information was not offered by the staff and had to be pried out of Mr. Holly. He also stated he had received “numerous” emails on the subject but had not “had time” to read and classify them.

Both local papers stated there were catcalls from the residents. There were. Some of the things that the developers’ hired guns said in an effort to put lipstick on this pig were CLEARLY untrue and the residents reacted. Some of the things (such as the large tract) that Mr. Holly said were technically correct but were taken from data that applied “across The Villages” as a whole and were based on single family home data. Those comments were met with the derision they deserved.

The worst scorn was reserved for the current Morse generation. The speakers and audience members know full well that these apartments can and should be built in areas that are NOT fully developed. They think that greed is the prime motivator for the apartments. They know that many long term residents that bought into TV lifestyle are being totally disrespected. They believe with good cause that TV actions are causing the value of their homes to decrease dramatically. They KNOW that a 4 story apartment building literally surrounded by single family homes is NOT compatible use. Many quoted assurances from one on one conversations with Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse and KNOW these promises and assurances are being broken by the current generation. They KNOW the current generation is aware of all this and feel betrayed.

One speaker put it well at the end of his 3 minute allocation to speak ‘ There will be no statues built for the current Morse generation.

[birdiebill]

Please clarify one statement "that the developer proposes to build up to 286 apartments at the Hacienda Hills site". I thought he had 286 amenity units available for any/all apartments or independent living units. If that is so, he would use some of those amenity units at any Spanish Spring apartments, or Sumter Landing apartments, or Hacienda Hills site apartments, or for any independent living units. If so, 286 apartments would not be built at HH. Did the developer specify the exact number of apartments at the HH site?

[Stu from NYC]

Very interesting. Wonder if the special master is bought and paid for?

Where the meeting was held is rather revealing.

[BobnBev]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Very interesting. Wonder if the special master is bought and paid for?

Where the meeting was held is rather revealing.

It couldn't be more obvious, could it?

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by BobnBev

It couldn't be more obvious, could it?

In todays market place wonder what a special master goes for?

Is that a one time fix or do you get fixes for say a year.

[npwalters]

Originally Posted by birdiebill

Please clarify one statement "that the developer proposes to build up to 286 apartments at the Hacienda Hills site". I thought he had 286 amenity units available for any/all apartments or independent living units. If that is so, he would use some of those amenity units at any Spanish Spring apartments, or Sumter Landing apartments, or Hacienda Hills site apartments, or for any independent living units. If so, 286 apartments would not be built at HH. Did the developer specify the exact number of apartments at the HH site?

No, they did not specify the number at Hacienda Hills or anywhere else. I said up to purposely as that is also what was said at the meeting. Could be less at Hacienda Hills and the remainder used somewhere else.

My understanding is that TV already owns the amenities south of 466. The 286 they were given by the AAC apply to north of 466.

[vintageogauge]

Over the years I went to many meetings/hearings such as this where residents were invited to speak their mind. Not once were there changes made based on the input from local residents. Similar to these "officials" at your meeting, in many cases never went to the site being discussed. I figured that I wasted about 100 hours of my life at these meetings/hearings and vowed never to get involved again as it is simply a waste of time. After the last meeting I attended where they were planning to build, and did build homes in a swamp not far from my property line, I sold my home and left town, I was not going to take a chance on having my property flooded when that swamp was built upon. In one way or another many of these "officials" have been bought and paid for. It's best just to let them go and enjoy life as it is.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by npwalters

These are my thoughts and my version of the truth. If a fact is wrong I’m sure there will many to rush in and correct me. I am positive there will be a few that do not live close to the Haceinda Hills site that will disagree with most of what I say. I live about 2 miles from the HH site and am concerned because 1) my neighbors in TV are being disrespected and 2) I realize that if it is done at HH it can be done elsewhere and probably will be. For the lawyers: this is based on my recollections and opinion only.

I attended the meeting with the Special Master for Planning and Zoning for Sumter County on Monday night. I was there. Got there at 5:15 for the 6 o'clock meeting and we got he LAST 3 tickets available to actually get in the room where the meeting took place. The exterior at 5:50 (when I was allowed in) was overflowing. Many folks could not find a place to sit or stand and hear the speakers set up in the lobby and left in frustration. Bear in mind this was at Everglades Recreation Center. South of the turnpike, well away from the areas actually being discussed, and not golf cart accessible to any but those living south of the turnpike. A request was made that the next meeting with the commissioners be held at the Savannah Center. That request was not acknowledged.

The county had the “special master’, the chief staff member of the Planning and Zoning Board, and a few staff. The Villages had a Orlando based lawyer, a hired traffic engineer, and VP for something (presumably development). The residents had all the residents that would fit into the venue.

The first few hours were spent hearing argument for/against apartments in the Lake Sumter landing area. That centered around amending the language in the current zoning restrictions to “clarify” that apartments can be built in the existing spaces. No actual plan for where or what was required of the developer. The “special master” recommended approval of the change. NOTE THIS: the developer has identified every second story space in Sumter Landing Town Square as potential apartments. The recommended amendment does NOT restrict similar apartments to only Sumter Landing and does NOT limit it to only the upper floors.

The second half of the 6 hour long meeting discussed the former Hacienda Hills CC site. The proposal was to “clarify” the usage language to allow a multi-story (up to 50 feet) apartment complex on the HHCC site. The developer proposes to put up to 286 apartments, a “resort style” swimming pool, sports courts, a restaurant, walking paths, and parking for all the residents on this approximate 8 acre site. Their lawyer actually said all this with a straight face. The Sumter county “planner”, Mr. Holly, classified this site as LARGE in his statement of facts. He later acknowledged that it is classified it as large since the classification for all the sites in this area are based on SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING.

The special master was repeatedly asked to delay this decision until the facts were clearer. He admitted he had not actually visited HHCC site to view the existing neighborhoods. He was pled with to go lay eyes on the site before a decision was made. He did not acknowledge these requests and recommended approval.

There were at least 60 –I didn’t keep a count – residents that spoke. Some were armed with facts, some told their story of how the apartments are going to affect their homes and the small town Villages lifestyle they bought and planned to live for the remainder of their life, and a few were centered on ancillary issues such as the valid concern for increased traffic on Morse Blvd and lack of adequate water resources.

There were NO residents that spoke in favor. Sumter County sent letters to the 68 homes within 500 yards of the proposed apartments. 60 responded and ALL were opposed. This information was not offered by the staff and had to be pried out of Mr. Holly. He also stated he had received “numerous” emails on the subject but had not “had time” to read and classify them.

Both local papers stated there were catcalls from the residents. There were. Some of the things that the developers’ hired guns said in an effort to put lipstick on this pig were CLEARLY untrue and the residents reacted. Some of the things (such as the large tract) that Mr. Holly said were technically correct but were taken from data that applied “across The Villages” as a whole and were based on single family home data. Those comments were met with the derision they deserved.

The worst scorn was reserved for the current Morse generation. The speakers and audience members know full well that these apartments can and should be built in areas that are NOT fully developed. They think that greed is the prime motivator for the apartments. They know that many long term residents that bought into TV lifestyle are being totally disrespected. They believe with good cause that TV actions are causing the value of their homes to decrease dramatically. They KNOW that a 4 story apartment building literally surrounded by single family homes is NOT compatible use. Many quoted assurances from one on one conversations with Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse and KNOW these promises and assurances are being broken by the current generation. They KNOW the current generation is aware of all this and feel betrayed.

One speaker put it well at the end of his 3 minute allocation to speak ‘ There will be no statues built for the current Morse generation.

Excellent post!

Thank you for an excellent post and attending the meeting. When the new Sumter commissioners take office the remaining puppets will be removed from office. The residents have won battles against the developer before. My opinion is that no squares are planned south of Rt 44, so the developer will turn all the existing squares into apartments to avoid sales competition in the new areas south of Rt 44. Also no money will be spent to maintain the clubhouses above Rt 44 so they can be demolished for apartments. There is a lot more being hidden from residents in my opinion.

[asianthree]

OP thank you for your time and effort for those who could not get into the meeting. My hope was those directly effected could be in attendance.
We as a few others have bid on a home, that would be in that 500 yard range, actually about half of that. We pulled our bid.
Sadly if these apartments do go through, and the amendments are changed, any ones home could be looking at a new 4 story apartment building, if they are rented 100%

I do get that some who don’t oppose think it’s great, but your pretty view that you paid for dearly could change in a stroke of a pen. After all a golf course is just commercial land.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by John41

Thank you for an excellent post and attending the meeting. When the new Sumter commissioners take office the remaining puppets will be removed from office. The residents have won battles against the developer before. My opinion is that no squares are planned south of Rt 44, so the developer will turn all the existing squares into apartments to avoid sales competition in the new areas south of Rt 44. Also no money will be spent to maintain the clubhouses above Rt 44 so they can be demolished for apartments. There is a lot more being hidden from residents in my opinion.

So it's your opinion that all 12 country clubhouses north of 44 will be demolished for apartments????? Reality check much?????

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

So it's your opinion that all 12 country clubhouses north of 44 will be demolished for apartments????? Reality check much?????

We have no clue what the developers really are planning.

My guess is they will be building some amount of apartments and if successful and they make money they build more and more until it affects the sale prices of new housing.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

We have no clue what the developers really are planning.

My guess is they will be building some amount of apartments and if successful and they make money they build more and more until it affects the sale prices of new housing.

When the Developer built the first house, all those living in trailers were up in arms....protested and chanted, "There goes the neighborhood" and "He promised."

[asianthree]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

When the Developer built the first house, all those living in trailers were up in arms....protested and chanted, "There goes the neighborhood" and "He promised."

That’s not the story that my aunts and uncles told us when they watched the first houses built. It was the amenities that came with the new builds, they were so happy to see.

So you have a different story when you watched the new area with shopping and such. Did you protest with them?

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by asianthree

That’s not the story that my aunts and uncles told us when they watched the first houses built. It was the amenities that came with the new builds, they were so happy to see.

So you have a different story when you watched the new area with shopping and such. Did you protest with them?

Sarcasm Sheldon, sarcasm.