First real solution anyone has offered. My guess is that others will try as well. If there is such a demand as you all think then it would be a no-brainer, right? My money is on 'not'!

I do not play golf, I do not play pickle ball. I DO go to the gym almost every day. Prices need to come down or special pricing for different times of day.

Unfortunately there is no "Y" nearby. I've never seen anyone walking the 18 hole courses here, and I used to do it all the time up north. They are not set up for walking - long distances between some holes, and there are pace of play issues.

We have no way of knowing how many people would use a gym/health club without doing a survey. We can all guess any number we want. But the thing is, if the gyms were here, there would obviously be more people using them. People don't have any uncrowded gyms to use now!

To advertise the Villages as an active retirement community, and not have the gyms to support the residents is a major gaff in my opinion. As to whether or not the facitlities should be provided - what percentage of Villagers do clogging? how about polo?, how about billiards? how about paddle tennis? We provide facilities for all of the above and many many more - there is a small niche of people who support each activity. If I recall there were no paddle tennis courts at all so no one was doing it until they installed the paddle tennis court up by Seabreeze.


Of course there are people who sit in the house and don't exercise for various reasons - infirmities or illness, lack of motovation or interest, etc., but for those who do need to exercise it would be great to have the facilities. We really have no idea how many people that would be without doing a good survey. Some people can't walk long periods of time or jog or play pickleball which by the way, is one of the most injury prone sports in the Villages, but they can exercise on a treadmill or elliptical. As someone else mentioned, if you are a babyboomer, you are part of a group that has fueled the rise of healthclubs since the 1980's. I've read various statistics that show the percentage of health club members that are aged 55 and older ranges from 20-30%. That is huge. When we don't offer the health club facilties in the Villages, my opinion is that we are really missing the boat. You try living here in the summer when the heat index is 110 degrees and walk an 18 hole golf course. Good luck - they'd be scraping you off the cart path. I ride 20 miles/day on my bike, and had to be on the bike before 7 a.m. or it was just not do-able because of the heat. An airconditioned facility where I could do aerobic activity would be bliss.

Such a lively discussion and so many opinions. Sounds to me like a great business opportunity. One of the downsides to all the clubs off campus is they are not golf cart accessible. And one of the BIG advantages of TV is being able to go everywhere by golf cart. So leasing space near Walmart on 466 and in Colony Plaza and someplace along 441 that is golf cart accessible and starting a really good fitness center seems like a business that could not fail. Anyone want to buy stock? When you have lemons .......

My wife and I have talked about this for the last two years. Like you said, if you could get some space that is golf cart accessible, drop in a Planet Fitness or Golds, I think it would do well. We have talked about it, read about it, but alas, I simply do not have the :censored:

I am not good at the questions.
 

..

I agree with you Russ. Wife and I have walked every day in New England were the weather is far from ideal. We walked when it was 15 degrees with a chill factor below zero and we walk last summer when it was in the mid 90's and humid.
I have worked out with "home resistance" which my gym teacher called isometrics, for over 30 years for practically nothing. They could put a facility in my back yard and I would not use it. I have incorporated my workouts as part of my lifestyle. To me it is something I do daily, like brushing my teeth or eating healthy food. My "workouts" cost me zero dollars and I will compare my results to anybody who uses costly facilities.
OK. I concede that some may lack the discipline to do it on their own, but you will be surprised what you can do if you really focus and keep distractions at a minimum.

Actually I was referring to a survey of actual residents, not TOTV'ers. People who sit in their house and spend a lot of time on the computer may not be a good indicator of those who go out or would go out and exercise. And many people on TOTV don't even live here, or do not live here full time so they wouldn't be familiar with the climatic conditions that make an indoor gym desireable.

TV's fitness centers are a profit center
 

First, I'm not an accountant, so I might be missing something in this analysis, but, a quick look at the budgets for both the VCCDD and SLCDD shows that the fitness centers are huge profit centers for the CDDs.

Here are the links (go to the bottom of each report where the fitness centers have their own section):
http://www.districtgov.org/departmen...et%20VCCDD.pdf
http://www.districtgov.org/departmen...et%20SLCDD.pdf

Note that on the actual expense/revenue results for 2008/2009 (on page 22 of the VCCDD report) that total revenue for all centers that were open in that year was $695,546 (plus some sort of transfer line item of an additional $95,689)and that total expenses were $400,707. Thus the profits were somewhere between $300,000-400,000 or almost double the expenses.

What does this mean? Even if you agree with the notion that fitness centers should not be part of the amenities covered by amenity fees, it would seem that the complaints of being over-charged for this service are valid. The rates could be roughly half of what they are and still cover expenses. Of course, lowering the fees will increase usage and hence will either result in more waits for each equipment piece or the need for more centers with a corresponding increase in expenses. It is safe to say, however, that there should be a happy medium between reduced rates and increased number of centers.

One thing that I find very interesting in looking at the budgets is the fact that the fitness centers are treated as a separate category in the overall budgets. I wonder if this is a sign of a future intent of the CDDs to eventually sell these off to a private firm. By singling out all the budget items for these centers, it makes it easy for a prospective buyer to see what the profit margins for them are (huge).

Gyms
 

The last few posts are good posts. My wife complains all the time about this and said all the exercise classes here are already overcrowded. In Jan-March, she just gives up as you have to arrive an hour early and wait in line or you get turned away. Half our neighbors drive to some gym outside the Villages. We have been here 8 years and if we ever leave it will be for an indoor pool and gym we can use everyday for free.

NJ - good post about the $ value of the subject matter.

But even this makes my (and the recent post by L2rdhd) point. Since they are already making money on the issue then why change? You can do all the surveys you like but business is propelled by profit motive. If people start voting with their feet (i.e. don't pay for membership) then change will come. If an outside large facility opens up that is golf cart accessible (466 for example) then let's see how it goes. If people sign up for that instead of Colony then perhaps changes will take place.

Does anyone think that The Villages commercial dept. has turned down requests by outside vendors to build a full service gym that is golf cart accessible? Curious.

Glad you wrote this Russ. Golf is indeed a form of exercise. One has the option of making it more or less "intense" as their needs and abilities change.

Often, we tend to think that as we are, so are others. Granted, there are more younger adults moving to the community, but why would one feel that the developer HAS to put in more workout areas. Would one move to another community and demand the city fathers build a new gym? Realize people that you are moving to a new community, a pre-planned community with designs approved and permits issued. Personally, I wouldn't want our rec center retrofitted with workout equipment. The billiard room is used frequently, the two rooms for activities are used frequently. Taking one of those rooms away for exercise can change the plans and events scheduled by clubs and villagers.

Golf isn't exercise, my foot...walk and carry your clubs, that's exercise.

Who exactly in TV walks the course and carries their clubs, i haven't seen anybody.You get more exercise taking your trash to the curb.Golf is a great game and a wonderful social gathering, but as a form of exercise in TV,i think not.We need more and better gym facilities within a golf cart drive.

Personally, I don't, but hubby does. I've seen lots of walkers over the years. Personally, it's not the way I want to exercise, but people do.

Speaking of taking out trash....yard work is wonderful exercise, though in the summer, it's more torture if you ask me... ;) We have a number of neighbors that tend to their own grass, trees, planting beds.

My point and I most likely didn't do a good job at getting it across, is that there are lots of ways to exercise in TV, it doesn't have to be done at a gym. Maybe some are just focused on work outs and forget there are other ways to work out. Heck, I'll assume they're moving here with their 9 to 5 work mentality...takes some time to rid mind and body of that.

I believe there is a 4th fitness center at the new Seabreeze Regional Rec Center

Russ, your view comes from the perspective of the status quo being the correct way to handle fitness centers (i.e., not being part of the amenity structure covered by amenity fees). I think what people are suggesting is that, like virtually every other 55+ community, the fitness centers should be provided at no additional cost.

Right now the lion share of our amenity fees go to golf. That's fine since TV has been marketed as a golf-centric community. However, by not including fitness centers as part of the "free" offering, I think TV is making a strategic mistake. You mention "voting with your feet"; I wonder how many prospective buyers who are not avid golfers looked at what they would be getting for their amenity fees and decided that the $135 plus fitness center fees was just a bit too much when they really had little use for all the golf courses. These people probably voted with their feet and bought elsewhere.

No big deal, right? After all, we're all golfers and it's no big loss to lose buyers who are not golfers. However, the cost of providing free fitness centers is minuscule compared with the golf courses. If we could attract more non-golfers by having free fitness centers, the net beneficiaries would be the golfer who now would have fewer competitors for tee times (because the population of TV would not be so dominated with golfers). They would also have fewer beginners/hackers to put up with who are just trying "to get their money's worth" from their amenity fees.

NJ - You're making my point again. Obviously people are not deciding to go elsewhere. Just look at the sales figures compared to any other real estate development in the country.

Would it be nice to have great free workout areas? Yes, but TV managment decided that it was not needed. And based on the profits they are getting from them (see $ post above), they might be right.

Taj44;

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm still a wannbe and I would like to see addition low cost facilities. It won't affect my wanting to move to TV but it would be nice.

Here is my 2 cents worth.

The need to exercise three tiimes a week in controlled environment is crucial for anyone who wants to be physically fit. Trying to exercise in excessive heat can be detrimental to one's health as I tried once when the heat on a running track was 110 degrees. I didn't get very far and had to stop with turned out to be a strained back, (surface too hard). I was much younger and not very wise.

I am not an expert and everyone has their views on what is needed to get fit. I exercise three times a week with weights and with a cross training machine.
1. The heart needs 20 minutes, (minimum), at 60% to 80% range of maximum allowed is order to get the benefit of a cardio-vascular workout. That 220 minus one age and times 60 or 80%.
2.If your on a treadmill and you having trouble talking to another person in terms of breathing, you are doing too much. I was much younger. :smiley:
3. Lifting weights to strenghtened the bones.
4. Studies have shown that exercise will help you to live longer!!!

IMHO - Why can't three times a week be the basis for staying healthy and add on additional exercise such as golf, swimming, pickleball, ets.... assuming one's health will permit.

When someone complains they didn;'t want to come to the gym, I tell them it' s "mind over matter". When they ask what I mean, I tell them, "if you don't mind, it don't matter". :laugh:

IMHO -I rather give my money for a gym than to give it to doctors. I would tend to think that a Planet Fitness or similar would help to make TV more perfect and help attract people who are into fitness and will require these low costs fitness centers.

Use it or lose it.

Probably not enough people to support more "gyms". BTW by gyms, does that mean a baketball court or does it mean a fitness center?

Russ. I agree with you once again. :clap2:

Excellent email. I also work out 2-3 times a week. Yes one has to do all the major muscle groups.

I really enjoyed the one email about taking the garbage out for your exercise.
Kind of like , hey the golf courses are all shut down lets all go Miniature golfing It's the same thing as golfing:1rotfl::1rotfl:

More fitness centers and cheaper fitness centers on site.
 

It isn't part of the plan and this place is 3/4 finished. You can talk about it until the cows come home. It isn't going to happen.

So if that would be a deal breaker for a person moving here, I guess someone else won't find it so.

This place will be finished out as planned and those who want an airport or a bunch of interior pools are just going to have to look somewhere else.

The medical issue and the lack of a great cancer center was nearly a deal breaker for me at first, but that is being solved as time goes on.

Our youngest daughter has a saying and those who know her know why.
It is " You can't have everything you want."

It's true too. Always.

In a way, you've sort of "dissed" anyone who golfs for exercise...whether they ride or walk. Hopefully you didn't mean that, did you?

I suspect free gym memberships at at all the rec. centers would be wildly popular and would attract more people to want to live in TV. However, in reality, if things keep going as they are going, TV will completely build-out without this enhancement.

It could be that the developer seeks to maximize profits while building a fabulous retirement community.

If so, "free golf" (i.e., included in the amenities fees) perhaps meets that objective. It might act as a loss-leader, attracting avid golfers who take advantage of the free golf, but who also pay to play championship courses. They choose TV over other golf communities in part because of the large number of courses, some of which are free. Bottom line, golfers bring in a ton of extra revenue and profits.

Free gym memberships at the rec. centers might not fit that business model. Amenities fees could increase to cover costs, but that doesn't increase profits. So this subset of Villagers would not bring in additional profits as do golfers. On the other hand, TV collects revenues from Villagers who use the rec. centers and from the profits of any commercial gyms that locate in TV. Therefore, making gym facilities available for a fee and limiting in-house gyms to attract commercial ones may help maximize profits.

Of course, I'm just providing a possible explanation for why free golf is included and free gyms are not. Who knows. At any rate, it certainly would not hurt to request more gyms and/or no-fee gyms in our annual surveys, and to put together a compelling argument for it. It never hurts to ask. It also never hurts to be realistic and practical in what we ask for.

[QUOTE=Pturner;308494]

At any rate, it certainly would not hurt to request more gyms and/or no-fee gyms in our annual surveys, and to put together a compelling argument for it. It never hurts to ask.

PTurner:

My latest favorite saying is, "if you don't ask, the answer is automatically no".

No . I'm saying that taking out the garbage is not exercise no more than miniature golf is the same as playing golf on a golf course..

I don't expect TV to supply me with a free gym membership. What I don't understand is why we can't have a 24 hour gym with a reasonable price. I also belong to a gym that is open 24 hours and it doesn't cost half of what they pay around here.

Ah, but the gym you belong to is probably part of a larger company or chain. Around here, there might not be enough income to cover the cost of building and operating a facility for many hours. Not sure that a 24 hour center is needed, but in order to help cover costs, the club might not be "private" so to speak.
Right now money is tight for many companies and they have cut back on new facilities. Maybe when the economy changes, more capital will be available and fitness companies might just take the leap and build in the area.

I'm glad exercise has all those extra benefits. I exercise 4 to 5 times a week for the romantic benefits.As you said ,use it or lose it, that's what you were referring to, right:jester::pepper2::jester:

This thread is starting to sound like all the people who bought or built next to an airport and then complain about the plane noise. Everyone knew what TV was when they bought here. It is designed, built, advertised, set up, caters to, golfers. The costs are set up to support golf. The golf paths, golf carts, trails, courses are all designed as a golfing community. That is it's primary objective. If that is not what you want, go elsewhere. Yes they have music, and some rec centers, and some other sports, and some fitness centers, but again those are ancillary to the prime objective. A golf community is what they set out to build and that is what they achieved.

I also like to exercise and a gym would be great. But I also recognize that is not what TV is about. It's primary objective is a golfing community. They have achieved that in an outstanding way and exceeded all expectations. Accept it for what it is or make a different choice. Your not going to change it. Even if you could change it to the fitness capital of the world, without the golf, you could never afford to live here. All this infrastructure is built and supported with fees because of the golf. I do understand that not every one who moves here is a golfer. But you made a conscious choice to move to a golfing community. Accept the consequences of that choice.

I assume your gym is "up north". Every thing is cheaper, better, more available, nicer, more variety, etc.
Maybe the demand is far greater up there and what they (who is they) pay here is realative to how many really use a gym.
BTW did you know the availability of gym's before you bought in TV?

I can only speak for myself, but to me I think there is an opportunity for some quality fitness centers in the area. I am not referring to a place that has a pool, raquet ball or basket ball, but a large gym where people can work out in any fashion they like. Lots of cardio equipment and resistance stations. To be fair, I have not yet checked out the new MVP fitness center since I have been back.

I am also not asking TV to build these, they have their plan and it is working well for them. IMO the rec center gyms are a bit small and bit expensive. To me this presents an opportunity. I am hopeful that some business person will see an opportunity and drop in a nice Gold's Gym (as an example) in the area. To me it is alot like the new driving range behind Wallmart, someone looked at this area, said I think I can offer a better product at a better price and went for it.

In fact, put in a nice Gold's gym next to the driving range and I can hit balls, then workout all in one place :pepper2:.

Yes we need more gyms!
 

We need a gym with a wooden floor for basketball, volleyball, floor hockey, indoor soccer, badminton and a decent place for exercise classes which is not a cement floor. A bunch of us ask for this every year and are told every year it is coming!! It is one of the reasons we can't have Senior Games here for these sports. People who use gyms and have been here for awhile know we need at least one good gym and more places to really exercise- which includes strength training and building all muscles. I leave the Villages at least 3 times a week to go to a gym. Yes, it makes you healthier!!!(and happier and younger like me!!)

fitness
 

MVP is a great fitness center with tons of free classes and all sorts of machines to work out on. The price is totally reasonable and of course is golf cart assesible. You can watch all the action on the square while working out !

Is there a waiting list for membership??

What is MVP? I go to Colony but haven't heard of MVP and can't for the life of me think of what the initials stand for.

It's in Spanish Springs
 

It's the old Sales Center in Spanish Springs.

:agree: As my favorite football coach says, " It is what it is."

Really, do you think people relocate down here from up north for gyms? LOL

This all all we are looking for, a place where everyone can fit in....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_8idNs2uks[/ame]

:agree: I thought that the older we get, the wiser we are. Please check deatails before yor purchase.

:BigApplause::mademyday:

Now THAT'S awesome!