Talk of The Villages Florida

Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   New Law - Vegetable Home Gardens NOT OK (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/new-law-vegetable-home-gardens-not-ok-296429/)

Polar Bear 08-10-2019 08:06 AM

We’ll see. But generally deed restrictions agreed to by property owners are not affected by state law.

Chi-Town 08-10-2019 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pqrstar (Post 1671890)
"So you can safely use it to water the tomatoes and other crops that grow OUT of the soil. But crops that grow IN the soil (root vegetables and ground cover) would need to be cooked, peeled, or "thermally processed" before eating."



But the yard water sprinklers DO SPRAY UP ON THE SURFACE of the vegetables that grow in the yards.



So I don't see how crops that grow above the soil can safely be used as food without peeling or cooking.



Then tomatoes would not be SAFE?

Nor my jalapeno peppers which is why they're in a pot that is unaffected by the sprinklers.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Chellybean 08-10-2019 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polar Bear (Post 1671953)
We’ll see. But generally deed restrictions agreed to by property owners are not affected by state law.

State and Federal Law preempts anything you signed.
Don't believe the Powers to be your being lied to. The Deed restrictions would not hold up in court and they know that!

Bogie Shooter 08-10-2019 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chellybean (Post 1671961)
State and Federal Law preempts anything you signed.
Don't believe the Powers to be your being lied to. The Deed restrictions would not hold up in court and they know that!

Can you site court cases supporting this statement?

graciegirl 08-10-2019 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chellybean (Post 1671961)
State and Federal Law preempts anything you signed.
Don't believe the Powers to be your being lied to. The Deed restrictions would not hold up in court and they know that!

I don't think anyone knows that nor do most of us think we are being lied to. What would be the point of it?

Most of us have come from areas all over the country with deed restrictions. They help all property owners maintain the homes best financial value.

Although most of us treasure creativity and avantgarde beauty, many would rather visit it in an art museum or a conservatory.

Polar Bear 08-10-2019 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chellybean (Post 1671961)
State and Federal Law preempts anything you signed.
Don't believe the Powers to be your being lied to. The Deed restrictions would not hold up in court and they know that!

You pack a lot of ‘wrong’ into a brief post.

New Englander 08-10-2019 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1671879)
I hope Marathon Man is right. Do you really long for a vegetable garden in your yard CNM?

I sure don't. :ohdear:

WhoDat 08-11-2019 03:29 PM

Dang! I just got the plow attachment for my riding mower.

Marathon Man 08-11-2019 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chellybean (Post 1671961)
State and Federal Law preempts anything you signed.
Don't believe the Powers to be your being lied to. The Deed restrictions would not hold up in court and they know that!

I'm going to listen to an attorney way before I listen to someone on here. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. Contract law does not go away just because a new law is enacted.

It is irresponsible to tell people to ignore deed restrictions. That has cost a lot of people money. Listening to people who turn out ot be wrong.

OrangeBlossomBaby 08-11-2019 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacjag (Post 1671947)
Fortunately, or unfortunately, you seem to be incorrect.

FL law protects your rights to grow vegetables, but not if you live under HOA rules • IAC

The new law restricts local governments but does not apply to HOAs or deed restrictions agreed to by a property owner.

That is an article about a law. Read the actual law. It very specifically does not allow communities to forbid homeowners planting vegetable gardens. The law was passed BECAUSE a community tried to prevent a homeowner planting a vegetable garden. The court ruled in the homeowner's favor. The court case was Ricketts vs. Miami Shores. Ricketts won.

The law is SB82. The text in question is here:
Quote:

(2) Except as otherwise provided by law, a county,
21 municipality, or other political subdivision of this state may
22 not regulate vegetable gardens on residential properties. Any
23 such local ordinance or regulation regulating vegetable gardens
24 on residential properties is void and unenforceable.

the numbers 21, 22, 23, and 24 are line numbers. I bolded the applicable part.

As I said before - there's no room for interpretation. It is very specific and precise.

graciegirl 08-11-2019 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1672372)
That is an article about a law. Read the actual law. It very specifically does not allow communities to forbid homeowners planting vegetable gardens. The law was passed BECAUSE a community tried to prevent a homeowner planting a vegetable garden. The court ruled in the homeowner's favor. The court case was Ricketts vs. Miami Shores. Ricketts won.

The law is SB82. The text in question is here:

the numbers 21, 22, 23, and 24 are line numbers. I bolded the applicable part.

As I said before - there's no room for interpretation. It is very specific and precise.

We will see. I have been here for more than a dozen years. My money is on the no vegetable gardens in the front yard. I doubt we have many who want to plant them anyway, but we sure do have some who like to debate. And like to be right. I don't give a hill of beans.

Mikeod 08-11-2019 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1672372)
That is an article about a law. Read the actual law. It very specifically does not allow communities to forbid homeowners planting vegetable gardens. The law was passed BECAUSE a community tried to prevent a homeowner planting a vegetable garden. The court ruled in the homeowner's favor. The court case was Ricketts vs. Miami Shores. Ricketts won.

The law is SB82. The text in question is here:

the numbers 21, 22, 23, and 24 are line numbers. I bolded the applicable part.

As I said before - there's no room for interpretation. It is very specific and precise.

However, we are not talking about a local ordinance or regulation, which is by its nature one sided. A government entity establishes something that the general populace must honor. In TV, the vast majority of homeowners have agreed to a deed restriction. This was a mutually agreed upon restriction and not done by a county, municipality, or other political subdivision. That is a noteworthy difference.

pacjag 08-11-2019 09:21 PM

Correct. The law restricts local governments but has no affect on HOA rules or deed restrictions.

EdFNJ 08-11-2019 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 1671927)
By "recycled water", if you mean water that is treated by the sewage treatment plants then this is not an issue if you live north of 44. Recycled water from the sewage treatment plants is not used for residential irrigation north of 44. It is used for golf course irrigation. South of 44, recycled water from the sewage treatment plants may be used for residential irrigation.

Interesting. The water coming from irrigation in our area which is near Mallory CC between 466A and 466 for the first 5 minutes or so smells like someone's toilet overflowed. I was told it was "reclaimed water for irrigation only." Not sure where it is reclaimed FROM but when it gets on me I head for the nearest emergency decontamination facility! :D

Phil_Linda 08-12-2019 05:38 AM

A question? Is there not a provision about not allowing Satellite TV with the antennas on the roof? Yet, according to some that have told me the FCC stepped in and said the Villages can't stop one from watching TV? Dose this not seem to be the same.

jedalton 08-12-2019 05:46 AM

really?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeod (Post 1671494)
Nope, it’s not just an opinion. The author of the bill, Rep. Hage, confirmed that it is not the intent of the law to affect voluntarily agreed upon restrictions and that the deed restrictions every one signed (except perhaps those on the historic side) fall into that category. He intends to introduce language more specifically addressing that distinction in the next session.

don't see how a village rule can supersede a Florida law?

merrymini 08-12-2019 06:44 AM

Thank goodness. I sent an email to our reps that this is a bad idea and cannot imagine why they would approve such a bill. I can see someone planting Jack’s beanstalk and think it is okay. Looking for that clarification. I paid a lot of money to live in a beautiful place and want to keep it that way.

runkcrun 08-12-2019 06:51 AM

What makes living here so wonderful is the all the beauty, neatness and cleanliness around us! Why would anyone wish to scar that with an unsightly vegetable garden in their front yard is beyond comprehension. Plant vegetables in pots, or on the sides or back of the house if you must. How many vegetables do we really need to grow here? It's not like we are feeding a growing family. Plus most people can't/don't maintain their own yard or trim their own bushes and trees - they hire it done. How can they then maintain a garden? It's probably a non-issue here, although there will probably be those who HAVE to exercise their "rights" no matter how it effects others.

toeser 08-12-2019 07:13 AM

How is this different from satellite dishes?
 
When the law was passed that any home may mount a satellite dish, that superseded all homeowner association rules and city laws. How is this any different?

GrumpyOldMan 08-12-2019 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toeser (Post 1672502)
When the law was passed that any home may mount a satellite dish, that superseded all homeowner association rules and city laws. How is this any different?

Exactly, the owners had agreed to a HOA condition, and the law superseded it.

I do think this is getting more debate than it will actually result in issues.

Also, the condo's can still enforce rules about how and where they satellite dishes can be installed for appearances and safety. So, I expect here you will be able to grow vegetables, but under controlled conditions that minimize the visual impact.

Mikeod 08-12-2019 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toeser (Post 1672502)
When the law was passed that any home may mount a satellite dish, that superseded all homeowner association rules and city laws. How is this any different?

That was a federal regulation. Big difference.

Mikeod 08-12-2019 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedalton (Post 1672468)
don't see how a village rule can supersede a Florida law?

It’s not a Villages rule. It is a deed restriction. The local government (the District) is not involved other than enforcement.

GrumpyOldMan 08-12-2019 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeod (Post 1672513)
That was a federal regulation. Big difference.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one on the internet, but, I don't see any difference between Federal or State laws, other than how they relate to each other. Many (States rights advocates) would assert that State laws are more applicable to local conditions than Federal.

ColdNoMore 08-12-2019 07:43 AM

It's ALL speculation, until a case goes through the courts, or another law is passed...specifically excluding those who have signed deeds.

And who in the world is really naïve enough to think that there's no agenda or self-interest going on, by having Da Family's own attorneys telling folks to..."move along, nothing to see here."
:oops:

Jokomo 08-12-2019 07:59 AM

Surprising
 
State law usually takes precedence over local regulations, otherwise what’s the point?

It would take a very well heeled Villager to step up and make the case however.

jfkilduff 08-12-2019 08:00 AM

No I’m betting the AAC is wrong and u can have a vegetable garden

graciegirl 08-12-2019 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1672527)
It's ALL speculation, until a case goes through the courts, or another law is passed...specifically excluding those who have signed deeds.

And who in the world is really naïve enough to think that there's no agenda or self-interest going on, by having Da Family's own attorneys telling folks to..."move along, nothing to see here."
:oops:

WHOA. AGENDA? I think there is agenda in most posts on this thread.

I have an agenda. I don't like pressure groups pressuring me. I like the deed restrictions as they stand. I chose to live here and I chose to sign them and I like them. I do not want vegetable gardens in
this beautifully maintained place. I love vegetable gardens. I have eaten many the vegetables fresh and canned from vegetable gardens in my past life. I don't like threads started that reek of political views called something else.

I am also concerned about overgrowth of "Florida Friendly Vegetation".

Proud Gracie from farming area of Ohio who lives in the well run Villages and uses reusable grocery bags and eats leftovers and recycles old clothes by wearing them.

Sorry Bogie. I don't think YOU have an agenda on this issue.

Velvet 08-12-2019 12:13 PM

I love vegetable gardens! In my old country we called them kitchen gardens, both beautiful, scented and useful. Mostly herbal and spice gardens. But in TV? When I went around in the morning the irrigation smelled toxic. Even an accidental splash of that water could contaminate. Also the dogs “watering” the plants which they are likely to do if in front of the house.... yikes! Even if you invite me to your home, or bring a pot luck to a party... please, please don’t offer anything grown from your garden.

Bogie Shooter 08-12-2019 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1672560)
WHOA. AGENDA? I think there is agenda in most posts on this thread.

I have an agenda. I don't like pressure groups pressuring me. I like the deed restrictions as they stand. I chose to live here and I chose to sign them and I like them. I do not want vegetable gardens in
this beautifully maintained place. I love vegetable gardens. I have eaten many the vegetables fresh and canned from vegetable gardens in my past life. I don't like threads started that reek of political views called something else.

I am also concerned about overgrowth of "Florida Friendly Vegetation".

Proud Gracie from farming area of Ohio who lives in the well run Villages and uses reusable grocery bags and eats leftovers and recycles old clothes by wearing them.

Sorry Bogie. I don't think YOU have an agenda on this issue.

Right, no agenda. I read it in the paper and shared. I knew full well the agenda's would follow.:1rotfl:

croughwell 08-12-2019 05:23 PM

They can interpret the law and conclude it all they want... THE COURTS WILL DECIDE AND IF THE VILLAGES LOSES, IT WILL COST THEM! AGAIN

ColdNoMore 08-12-2019 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1672560)
WHOA. AGENDA?<...Snip

Yep. ;)

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that attorney's working for Da Family, would give their 'opinion' (AKA-"AGENDA")...that it doesn't apply to their client. :oops:

Now only if that darned legal system, judges/juries and attorney's with differing opinions...didn't always get in the way. :1rotfl:

I'll say it again, it's ALL speculation until the first case (or additional state laws)...are made. :ho:

pacjag 08-12-2019 05:31 PM

There is no room for interpretation in the law that was passed. It restricts local governments from passing ordinances which would prevent a homeowner from having a vegetable garden in his front yard. That was the issue which caused the law to be written and then passed. There is no verbiage in the law as passed which could be in any way construed to include non-government entities such as HOAs or deed restricted communities. Don’t believe me? Go read it for yourself.

Polar Bear 08-12-2019 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacjag (Post 1672793)
...There is no verbiage in the law as passed which could be in any way construed to include non-government entities such as HOAs or deed restricted communities...

Pretty well sums it up.

Nick75 08-12-2019 09:13 PM

[QUOTE=eyc234;1671425]That is too bad, I would much rather put water on something of value that waste it on a green dog toilet.[/
The Villages is NO place for a front yard garden

Marathon Man 08-13-2019 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1672791)
Yep. ;)

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that attorney's working for Da Family, would give their 'opinion' (AKA-"AGENDA")...that it doesn't apply to their client. :oops:

Now only if that darned legal system, judges/juries and attorney's with differing opinions...didn't always get in the way. :1rotfl:

I'll say it again, it's ALL speculation until the first case (or additional state laws)...are made. :ho:

Those attorneys work for the districts, not the family. Not the same, even though many think that it is.

stan the man 08-13-2019 07:12 AM

Plant "NOW" get grandfathered

Bucco 08-13-2019 09:56 AM

Just an FYI and legal opinion I suppose....

[B]"Based on interpretation and a legal review, this legislation only speaks to local city and county ordinances that may address vegetable gardens. It does not address or affect homeowner association (HOA) or potential Community Development District (CDD) restrictions that may be present. HOA/CDD restrictions would still be enforceable. CDDs are not specifically designated as political subdivisions in that statute."[/B]

Vegetable Gardens As An Addition To Your Landscape - Osprey Observer

Who knows. We do know that both sides of this will test it out.

Flinch 08-13-2019 10:01 AM

Up North, a neighbor and I planted a veggie garden on our property line. Even after the deer were finished, we had wonderful food. We called ourselves "sharecroppers."


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