Progress, sometimes good, sometimes bad. I am less troubled by the apartment in the squares, which seem very nice and will not change the atmosphere than the building at the HHCC. People who paid a premium for the golf course are getting something they did not bargain for. That is why buying on the “edge” of anything is problematic. I think it unlikely that golf courses will be razed, they are part of the water retention and distribution system. That being said, the associations that commissioners and others have with the developer can be construed as a possible lack of independence and these changes should be good. A large meeting facility can be good too, as many people as possible should go. Being put in the south instead of where the modifications will take place is pure manipulation.

As usual, you make a very good point. Everybody should look at that map.

Has anyone who has already jumped to conclusions seen the plans for these apartments? It looks to me the only place to build would be where the existing clubhouse and restaurant/pool is located, on the east side of Morse. I suppose there could be construction just across Morse on the west side if they take out the 9th hole of Palms. Everything else is existing homes and nature preserve. I don't think they could build apartments where some of the golf holes are located---no room. Look at the map again. Please, someone, point out which golf course/view homes would be looking "at the back of an apartment building".

Here's a suggestion from left field----If they are so hell bent on removing the HHCC clubhouse/restaurant, why not build a new and improved Katie Belle's there? Of course the profitability would be in question, might be better to build it further south where the demographics suggest a somewhat younger population.

Overall, sounds like residents and posters on TOTV need to take a deep breath and find out what is actually planned.

Hey, I say “party on,” the apartments sound great! When we are in our 80s, God willing, apartment living sounds like the perfect transition from our courtyard villa. Folks, get a life. Take a day off from vilifying the Developer. You might like it.

Totally out of order
 

But the Villages have THEIR money from us now and do not care. They sold us a dream that will turn to a nightmare. Not what ANYONE signed up for. We will be over-run with kids etc. So much for 1 month per year visits for the rest of our grandkids.... that will change too I suppose. Make the new apartments DOWN below SR 44.... DO NOT MIX THEM with very senior well established locations.

Seriously????? I didn't realize we live in such a horrible place. This post is on a par with the poster who claimed that TV is overrun by "rabid packs of angry old white men", which is racist, sexist, and delusional all at the same time. One of Blouir's (?sp) original criteria for the diagnosis of schizophrenia was essentially a lack of reality testing. Seems to be prevalent on TOTV these days.

NO kids. Same rules apply to the apartments that apply to the rest of this place under Federal law regarding age restricted communities.

And just in case you missed my previous post;

Across from the torn down Hacienda Hills Country Club is the Sharon Morse Nature Preserve and nine holes of golf course. Behind the area where the building was torn down is nine holes of golf course. On either side are four homes. Please drive to this site up or down Morse and see for yourself the area where these apartments will be built.

The Villages(R) Community Map - Explore & Find Your Way Around

If you are not familiar find Spanish Springs, follow Morse South (Hacienda Hills site is VERY close) You will have to enlarge the area several times to see it well. One picture is worth a thousand words.

In my opinion, When the so called complainers are told, you don't have to stay here, I think they are complaining because they do love it in TV and don't want to lose a good thing. Change is scary and not always for the better. The areas being built down the southern end of TV was ok. Just some worried about overcrowding and thought it would be a good idea to add a fourth town square. Doubt if that's happening! But the area kept to the feel of TV, a hometown residential lifestyle. Apartments are a whole different dynamic. Apartments over businesses aren't that terrible and will probably come at a high cost. The apartment complex is a different story. Hopefully it wont be more then 2 stories high.We all know in our hearts it will move forward. Lets just hope that with the added population there will be more restaurants, businesses ,clubs times and amenities added to compensate for the amount of people. Trying to be positive

Exactly what has been done since TV crossed highway 441 and progressed Southward!!

I don’t understand how this is happening. To get the tax breaks the developer build a site condo community. Part of that agreement is so much parkland( or residents only land) to be used for the co owners( us). How are they now taking the land promised in the agreement that they created? I have never heard of this happening anywhere else without a damn good reason of need, and a complete court case . Can someone explain this?

Yes, by all means drive to this area stop in the parking lot and look around. When you do, stand there and ask yourself "how would I feel if that was MY house I'm looking at?"

Then ask yourself if the area was ever intended to be anything but single family housing.

Then realize that apartments will literally cram about 500 new residents into a VERY small area that previously had zero.

Sound like a good deal for the current residents? Of course not. Gracie (and all the others in favor) would be firmly opposed if 286 apartments were being built in the middle of her neighborhood. Easy to sit back and say it's OK when it doesn't get within 5 miles of your home.

We have always tried to live by the Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules." We will continue to love it here for whatever time we have left. I, perhaps naively, still believe the developer would not intentionally do anything to risk the quality of this 40+ year investment. But then again, I've also heard that failed family businesses tank with the 3rd generation. :pray:

So here is an idea for those that think the Hacienda Hills site proposed apartment complex will fit in and the residents are just malcontents.

I chose a hole on a Arnold Palmer Country Club course. The championship course is owned by the developer and since they own it -according to some on this blog - they can do whatever they want with it. After all there are no guarantees are there? We can place 286 multi-story apartments in the area I have outlined in red. Note that it has wetlands on one side, a golf course on one side, 466 and horse farms on one side, and ONLY 4 houses that actually adjoin it. I don't think the residents in Bridgeport at Laurel Valley will mind- do you?

well said

Not a bad idea. There already exists a nice safe, wide multi-modal path AND a four lane highway right out the door of the suggested complex. The views North, East, and South would be wonderful, although one would have to look at roof tops and bird cages to the West where an area was already zoned and built "individual residential". On the West side of the existing single family residential area there would be room for a few food trucks and a parking lot with a great view of a pond. And since there is a parking lot with maybe extra room, add a Aldi's so all the new apartment dwellers have convenient shopping.
Nice. ---- All that has to be done is change the zoning.

And there is already a cart path, plus if they allow 4 stories you could overlook the entire neighborhood, and see the rest of the golf course. A corner rap around apartment, you could see the sun rise and set, plus at night listen to the sounds from the nature preserve.

So you are throwing out the idea that the developer can take one hole... or a few holes of a championship golf course and turn it into apartments. So one nine at Arnold Palmer would be 7... or 8 holes.
Is that really your "argument?"

For people who want to downsize from a house to an apartment but still stay in The Villages that is a lousy location.

Déjà vu…..what comes around-goes around.
Recently responded to several comments made re the changes at Hacienda CC. To reinterate…it was necessary for the developer to file with various States a
Property Report which stated on its’ face “The developer is responsible for the Accuracy and completeness of this report”. The one filed with the State of
Connecticut was a 34 page detailed document, revised in 2003. My personal initiative to purchase in The Villages was partially dependent on this report;
which in writing promised a “vision” of how The Villages were developed to that point; and what the developer was to do in the future.
There have been hundreds, if not thousands of purchases in The Villages, by individuals who were led to believe what was presented to them in writing. There is no
problem for someone to revise a plan going forward…but there is a problem for one to significantly change what was a written promise and now proves
detrimental to one who had depended in it. Additionally…there has been many pieces of sales material handed out by the developer over a
period of time that states the same objectives, etc..E.g…..Under additional information on the Restated Report filed with the Connecticut authorities…..it states on page 32 ..”40. "Describe type of building, such as high rise, cluster, garden, etc…".The answer is “The Villages is currently developed in two sections as “units” and “villas”. This follows the
previous remark “39. …..The units are intended for and restricted solely to single family home usage”. It does not say anywhere in the report, that
apartments will be part of the Villages….nor does it say anywhere in the report that multiplex buildings will become part of the Villages…nor does
it say anywhere in the report, any reference to do specifically with apartments at Spanish Springs or Sumter Landing.
No one should have any problem….going forward on new expansion areas of The Villages as to what is to be built. Going forward you are made aware of the plans. It’s when you back up and take something away…or radically change what you have promised in writing…that causes a problem. So what changes have been made against written promises on an Official document
in this case filed with the State of Connecticut. The elimination of the pool, pro shop, tennis courts, dining facilities etc., of Hacienda CC which are specifically mentioned
in the report, (eg..page 3 paragraph 3,page 20 under #17,page 21 under #18, and so on). This not only effects the adjacent homeowners….but also the greater area surrounding
The HH CC …. For the hundreds of homes that considered this course their CC because of their location to the course.
What other changes have/are occurring …… closing of the restaurant at Chula Vista; restaurant closing at El Santiago… the closing of Katie Belle’s which was a written promise
of Resident Dining in a 2004 sales brochure given prospective property buyers….the proposed apartments at Katie Belles….proposed apartments on other Spanish
Spring property…proposed apartments at Sumter Landing…and so on.
There has been talk of a Class Action Lawsuit by several groups, for compensatory Damages, on those several hundred homes that may be effected by the complex
that is proposed at the HH CC location. On speculation…say the developers are making 20% on a home…and they are averaging or have averaged about 5,000 homes a year…at about $300,000 a home sales price…the profit would roughly be $300,000,000. Again, this is speculative…and I have no basis for the profit margin…but just a guess. My
point would be…that even if it’s half of that….to actually lose 5, 6 or even $700,000 on the promises they have made…. (restaurants…CC..etc)….would literally be nothing…and allow them to maintain what they promised in writing.
In addition to a compensatory Class Action suit…there is a question as to whether or not the developers would be exposed to a Punitive Damage count. Generally, punitive damage judgments involve a tort claim, or contract claim Eg… insurance policy. The problems here arise out of contractual purchases, based on written promises.
Punitive Damages, or exemplary damages, are damages assessed in order to punish the defendant for outrageous conduct and/or to reform or deter the
defendant and others from engaging in conduct similar to that which formed the basis of the lawsuit.
I am not an attorney…but have read about these substantial judgments.
Given the importance… of filing a detailed property report with requiring official state entities…the content of these reports cannot be viewed lightly. In this situation, if the breach of written promise is so egregious, to amount to a breach of the implied good faith and fair dealing; there may be a basis for a punitive damage award. Again….I am not an attorney…and what I have concluded may be all wet…but it might be a consideration for those directly effected by the developer’s actions.
Anyhow…these are my current thoughts on the matter.

Does A. F. F. H. play into this in any way ? Is there a possibility that applies to retirement communities too ? I know the liberal wing of the Democrat party is really supporting fair housing, which sounds like a wonderful democratic principle, but make sure you all look into this closely. It's starting to sound like one of those "you have to READ it first to know what is in it". Don't like this kind of thing from either of our major political parties ! !

In reality, don't you think these "malcontents" are pretty much the same type of personality who is basically a very likable person who in all other areas is perfectly "normal", but, who in retirement really just wants to back off, be less intense, more laid back, and enjoy being out of the "rat race" ? I've found very astute, highly educated, friends of mine have simply "abstained" from keeping up with some really serious matters now that they have "retired". I think more would be concerned if they followed the "bread crumbs" to the end of the trail, but it is a very winding and complex task. I have expressed that I am trying to research possible effects of the A F F H. You don't hear much from either party, Trump has made a few vague references on this nation wide emphasis on affordable (dense, high rise) housing, but most people do not seem to understand how this effects single family housing, which to some is very unfair and an attempt at exclusivity, which makes me think of gates (even sham ones like in our community), and other things such as "semi" private clubs, country clubs *that are actually public restaurants, and certainly the neighborhood pools are open to all. Have even seen landscape crews taking showers and..... washing BOOTS in a sink in the rest room of a neighborhood pool. Since this has always been a kind of wide open community, from fishing to swimming (a little more control at the "country club" pools), to the parks and playground equipment and dog parks, I wonder how all this will play out when there is greater emphasis on high rise and high density, and less emphasis on single family dwellings ? Been doing a lot of research lately, and a lot of "thinking"... of course it's impossible to accurately predict the future ?

Does anyone know, or has lived there, or checked out the Del Webb communities ? Are they TRUE private communities ? In other words, do visitors have to have permission of an owner to enter ? Can anyone go there for dinner (I think I was told "yes", it is a public restaurant/country club/ and golf course. I have never checked ..... Hard to find the actual details of the A. F. F. H. Bill, what I do find is disturbing. Mainly because it sounds so right, and true, and fair like America should be, but the details (those I can find ! ) seem very DARK ?

People coming here now do not care about the residents who bought years ago around Spanish Springs, Hacienda etc. There are plenty of new homes being built and there will be plenty of new buyers. "Build them and they will come". A person coming here from New York, NJ etc. only knows there is great weather, no State income tax, lower property tax and affordable homes. You're kidding yourself if you think a 25% tax hike or apts anywhere is going to stop them. The family knows that and they will keep building as long as they can get water and land. The commercial part is starting to grow exponentially with more residents and they are making a killing off that.

sadly true

"They (the developer) is doing what they have always done, with the quality they have always employed, updated to the current markets and opportunities.

Very happy they (the developer) has been and continues to be profitable to be able to continue doing so.

The lifestyle we bought into 16 years ago has not been compromised...in fact for the most part it is better.