Uh, the amenities here aren't free. I'm just telling you what the powers that be know, the sales here are very much propped by investors.

I don’t have a rental, but since the fee is being paid by the homeowner, what’s the difference if the home is occupied year round or a couple times a month? If it’s a full time resident they would use the amenities year round verses a renter using them whenever the home is a short term rental. If charging an extra fee for a short term renter why is the rental property owner paying a monthly fee?

It's not about a "fee". It's about the identity of our community. Are we a 55+ retirement community or a weekend vacation resort for 20 somethings that want to party all night and trash their neighbor's property???? Yes, that's hyperbole, but it is the experience of some, not all, that live next to an Airbnb.

I agree, but I think that they should be paid for by everyone who uses them. Like, don’t “advertise” on my dime type of thing. And don’t lower my life style so others can benefit. Like some college kids on their break etc.The problem is not their age, but their behavior. They have a lot of energy, no manners, noisy, and they don’t give a damn. Not all, my neighbor has her kids and their friends over regularly. We are talking about a large number all at once. Some stay over at grandpa’s place too. When they come they go house to house on the street, to see if any one needs help with something. They were just brought up that way.

In what world does that make sense? Bizorio world? :1rotfl:

Well I think any over 4 abuse, see how that works we all have opinions but we don’t get to decide.

If I were going to rent a place for a wild weekend of partying (as if I did that), the Villages would be the last place that would occur to me to go. Do people actually do that? They must based on the comments I read here. Why don't they pick someplace more interesting or fun? Okay gang, lets have a party, where should we go? Vegas, nah, the Keys, nah, Myrtle beach nah, how about the Villages retirement community.....alright lets go!

Easy, it is CHEAP, especially if you are a friend of a friend, sleep 6 on the floor, close to Disney, only one hour drive from the beach etc etc. Lots of people, little money and if you have any, it goes on booze and drugs. I know it’s party time when I see the barrel of chips and truck load of pizzas arriving.

Courts all over the United States have come to a different conclusion and interpretation.

Most courts have ruled that STR's (on their face) is not "running a business out of the home", they have essentially ruled that the business is run somewhere else and the "renting out of the home", is mere the product the business (which is run elsewhere) sells/rents.

They have generally maintained the "house/home" is still being used for "residential purposes" (people are sleeping & cooking there.)

I don't agree with the interpretation, but apparently I'm not allowed to make the rules. The communities who have lucked out and been able to significantly reduce STR's, had zoning regulations that specifically defined daily rentals or STR's as prohibited use.

STR's are one of the best examples of an entirely new business model, that caught regulators flat-footed and they could never catch up. The early adopters had to much invested and were willing to spend big money, to maintain that business.

Think about File Sharing with music. We woke up one day and you could get a digital copy of any bit of music you wanted, for free. (i.e. Napster & other P2P apps). A great example of technology out-pacing regulation and it changed things forever.

I hadn't seen the below post, when I wrote the above, but what Tophcfa was told by the Developer, is exactly what most courts have ruled.

That's the thing. This entire thread really is about the STR Landlord Boogeyman and it was disguised initially as a wear and tear issue on the amenities.

But to your point, this will have almost no impact on STR. Landlords will just pass the cost on to the renter. It would have to be a hard count restriction and then that's going to impact the community itself more than it does the landlords

I personally don't see hoards of young people coming in and renting for a day or two and throwing wild parties. I hear 3rd hand legends of them and fears of them, but I don't see it happening. Still, if what people want is a restriction on STR, which it is clear that is what the folks in this thread want more than guest pass restrictions, then your efforts should be put into pursuing that and limiting rental terms less than X days, X weeks, or X months.

Of course, people will violate it and then it becomes an enforcement issue, but then at least the local residents will have some ability to impact the homeowner.

It is about a workshop!
 

Someone has created their own Boogeyman. I am the original poster. Read the post!!! It’s about amenities. The slippery slope this has taken is all about someone’s own perception. It would be nice to see amenity prices stall for a few years.

It would be nice to see gas prices, food prices, college tuition and airline ticket prices stall for a few years as well. Unfortunately, Fantasyland is located about 60 miles south of here.

Peopled, people, people don’t you think that since we’ve been allowed to get guest passes that the benevolent village owners have already factored in whatever extra maintenance costs there might be?
And if they did charge for passes, do you think that would prevent them from raising or amenity fees because they got revenue from somewhere else?
And those folks renting houses using guest passes, if the owners were living there instead and using the facilities what difference would that make then?
IMHO it all comes out in the wash

Still misread the post from LaLamy..her suggestion was

10 Passes TOTAL. No exceptions, no Buying extra. 10 Is the limit.

For many years TV rentals were retired, many stayed high season, and other months. Our 2 homes in TV had same two people that stayed 5-6 months, for 4 years. The other home was long term one tenant for 10 years. As the owner you could see how many guest passes were issued, there were 4 guest passes issued.

Rentals were hard to acquire, usually with 30+ applicants, per rental. Most investors rented to keep home occupied, but rarely did you find they were desperate to rent. After all it was their home.

STR’s were few and far between, until the last few years. I don’t buy they are staying cheap to drive an hour Plus each way to the Parks and Beach.

Some STR’s are becoming a problem, the abundance of rentals, the need of money. STR’s are renting by the night. Like a revolving door, people come and go constantly.

We ran a credit check, those who have one day rental, don’t care who stays as long as the $ hits their account.

That the difference in today’s rental in TV

Bad assumption.

In any resort/vacation/retirement community, the intensity of usage is multiplied exponentially, by short time visitors, who are trying to cram as much into their 2 weeks vacation period as they possibly can, to "get their money's worth".

Think about it. How often do you go out for dinner on a regular basis, vs how many times you're likely to dine out, when on vacation?

Compare vaca dining out to TV resident, could be close to equal. Sad to say but in TV there are 100’s of home that still have the paperwork inside oven.

We looked at more than 400 preowned in TV that oven never used. Even in SS and Lopez area. It became a guessing game never used or used, before we toured the house.

We know many in TV who eat out daily, some twice a day. We on the other hand eat out maybe 4 times a month. That because we don’t fry fish at home. Eating breakfast out is extremely rare, mainly because I want my eggs perfectly basted, and bacon crispy.

I agree with the poster who said that short term renters use the amenities much more. I lived in a much smaller resort community prior to moving here. Before AirBNB and **** became a thing, the one pool was very pleasant to use with maybe one other group in it whenever we went. As STRs became more popular, the pool became more popular and there were 10X the number of people in it as previously. It was crowded and noisy. The wear and tear on the pool had to increase exponentially.

In the early '10's the community instituted a fee for pool guest passes of $10 per house per day. Guests of owners could come in with the owner pass. This did not affect short term rentals at all - I was renting out my unit at the time, so I know. If the powers that be want to decrease short term rentals, they'll have to put a limit on the number that they issue to each house.

In the couple years I've lived here I've gotten a guest pass 1 time for the long weekend (suggestion of those issuing the pass to have a buffer just in case) even though they were going to only be here for an overnighter and we never used the pass! How many people actually USE the passes for the duration vs getting just "in case"?

Abuser? Define it! If a grandparent has their 2 kids, each with 3 kids, visit once or twice per year (e.g. Thanksgiving and Xmas), you're going to say it's abusive and make them pay for them to visit a third time in the same year (e.g. grandparent b-day, spring break, easter)? Where in the deed restrictions or ANY document we signed was there a limit on guests? I bought a home here KNOWING that TV has a strong reputation for being VERY friendly to parents and grandparents, hosting children's events, etc. and now you think it's abuse it they visit "too much"? Remember the FAMILY pools are there for a reason, e.g. kids and grandchildren, so their usage and the attached bathrooms was ALWAYS factored in and absolutely intentional.

I understand your point, but I personally have never seen our rec center fully utilized, although perhaps last year the pool was near capacity one or two days, whereas it's normally a dozen or less. Sure, with all the classes I'm sure the sports pools get busy, so maybe limit "classes" to residents? As for the bathrooms, let's be clear, TV grounds keepers, vendors, delivery drivers, and the like swamp our rec center bathrooms compared to ANYONE or group with guest passes!!! There's almost a continuous stream of them after lunch EVERY DAY until early afternoon, they're often there long enough to read a newspaper, and you rarely hear the hand dryer run when they leave... yuck.

The way I understand it the pools don't use Chlorine anymore. They use a less harsh chemical. 10 years ago when I was in a chlorine Village pool my eyes would burn if I opened them underwater. Today, my eyes don't burn because the non-chlorine additive that they use (I forget the exact name) is milder yet just as effective. I believe that it cost a little more than chlorine. I am obviously not a pool chemist.

I agree and I think that as the RESIDENTS age, they tend to use less and less facilities in general. So, logically, the resident's fee should drop down as the years go by. But, also, the dollar's buying power will go down each year. So, you need a "constant dollar" calculation.

Perhaps easy to address that concern. Previously issued guest passes can be reactivated within 10 months without counting towards the free limit.
That would be effective for family visiting, and preventing the revolving door of constant short term renter changes.

I will ALWAYS use a paper towel to dry my hand, but I will NEVER use an electric hand dryer because the loud noise hurts my ears, which are , admittedly, more sensitive than the average person. There are a few quiet machine hand dryers, but not many.

Several Solutions for This
 

There is also the option of pass usage. If a person doesn’t use all 10 passes they can carry forward an accrued number for a max of say 20 without paying. After that it could be use or lose.

Wait, I thought the short term renters were young adults having keg parties and capitalizing on the proximity to Disney and beaches. If you are driving an hour each way to Disney or the beach and you are partying all night in the house, when do you have time to use amenities. And why do you even need a guest pass?

I would disagree with that idea. I think 10 passes that don't have a fee imposed on them, per year, is fine. If that's one person coming 10 times, or a couple with with their two minor children coming five times, or a couple once, and 3 20-somethings once, and then whatever other combination - I think that's fine. Once it exceeds 10 adult passes - a fee should be imposed.

And that's just for guest passes, not temporary resident passes. I ALSO feel that people who have temporary resident passes shouldn't be allowed ANY guest passes. If this isn't YOUR home - then you don't get any guest passes. Only homeowners should be allowed to acquire guest passes for their guests, and only if they actually reside in the property.

Let AI solve this one

If a person rents their house or lives in their house, they’re still a body count in the pool. I’ve lived here for 5 years and had NEVER gone to the pool until last month and will never go back. I don’t enjoy the actual residents who think it’s their own personal pool. Literally telling me where I can and can’t go. I’d much rather have renters who just swim and mind their own business. With the exception of 2 people, I enjoyed talking to the visitors much more. They seem happier in general.

I agree on some residents truly believe only their group should be allowed at that pool. Our neighborhood pool the group would question where you live, are you pond or pool, then constant comments. If they couldn’t remove you, then CW was called for non resident at the pool.

Golf
 

IMO guests should be bumped from golf course usage too. I don’t see the reasoning temporary guests need to use a course the rest of us pay for. It seems tougher every year to get on in the winter months.

Guests pay a greens fee, and a cart fee unless they are walking, on the executive courses. They are paying to use the courses. I believe that including a guest in an executive tee time request will negatively impact your chances of getting a tee time.

Its fun to play courses with your invited guests. It would be sad if you could not invite them. Even the most exclusive courses in the country allow guests.

Most even allow unaccompanied guests with some limitations.

Everyone at the pool was a resident, not a visitor. However the original group of 80-90+ are not a fan of new home owners who are decades younger..

Personally we never used the neighborhood pool, but when the “Group” of special people are at the pool, we would just stop by, to read the mail, wait for the fun to being.

Apparently their short term memory had issues because when CW stopped they only need to check Id once, then laugh after following stops.

The neighborhood pools were designated as socialization pools. Where you get together with your neighbors (anyone from TV). It is like a driveway party. When strangers show up, especially if they don’t catch the vibe, (for example, try to swim in what is basically a cold water hot tub) it’s like a driveway party, they are not going to feel welcome. That’s what the “family” pools are for.

Try a different pool, or try a different day at that pool. That is, IF you enjoy being in a pool. Not everyone cares about pools but have the urge to go for a dip once in awhile.

I went to the pool at Sumter Landing, that tiny cluster of "cottages" when you take a right past the bridge and then another right. The first time I went, no one else was there and I had the pool to myself for a couple of hours. The second time I was "questioned" by a couple of ladies who were in there when I got there. We chit-chatted for a few minutes and then I continued on my swim. I think they were curious why someone who lives in the Historic Section would go all the way to Sumter Square to swim in a little pool. Basically the answer was "because I can." There really was no other reason. I thought it'd be fun to do it, and that's all. It's a nice little pool.

At the pool closest to where I live, at Hilltop, I've been "questioned" a few times. And it was obvious they were trying to make sure I was "authorized" to be there. I just told them "I live down on the other side of the Tower" and continued on my swim, basically ignoring them for the rest of the time I was in there.

IMHO, if you want to swim you should go to a pool that has lane dividers specifically set up for lap swimming. Otherwise ...

I never saw that designation anywhere, could you tell me where it's posted? Unfortunately, many at our age have hearing issues so there's a lot of shouting while they talk to each other and then, of course, there is always some gossip included. I think if people really want quality in their pool time they need to put one in the backyard.

Can you invite golf guests that live in neighboring counties?

My son lives in Sorrento (an hour away in Lake county--1 mile north of the county line with Orange County) but we were told we can't get a guest pass to take him and the grandkids to the family pool when they come up for the day.

We were told...
"If your guests reside in Lake, Marion or Sumter counties they may visit with you in your home and enjoy all The Villages public facilities. However, they are not eligible to use The Villages Recreational Facilities or obtain a Guest ID Card."

Is it different for golfers?

Sorry, you need a guest ID for the Executive Courses. However, anyone can play the Championship Courses.

It would appear that you were told wrong.

From Guest Information page of districtgov.org:

A resident who has a son, daughter, grandchild or great grandchild (and their spouses) who reside in Lake, Marion or Sumter counties may apply for an in-area guest ID card.

There are additional restrictions on the in-area guest ID card but the cards can be obtained and your in-area family members can go to the pool with you. (I haven't looked into golf rules)

See also: Guest & Resident ID Info