[EdFNJ]

We had a Navien tankless (gas) up north before moving here. I soooo miss it. However if you are buying it to save money (or net energy costs) you won't. You'll be pushing up daisies long before you break even. We strictly bought it for convenience and it def was convenient. I'd do it again in a "New York Minute" (whatever that means) if our home had gas ... even with just 2 of us.

[villagerjack]

I just had a new water heater installed in minimal time by Mike Scott. Cost was $620 after the rebate which Scott arranged sent to him. My neighbor had a tankless installed for $1,200. I cannot imagine how you can recoup your cost for a tankless.

[ditka41]

We recently purchased a new home in The Villages that has a GAS, Outside, tankless, water heater that was touted to be "almost instant". While it is probably true that it heats the water rapidly, we wait for several minutes to get hot water flowing at the kitchen and bathrooms. For reasons known only to the designer / builder, the tank is mounted on the outside of the garage wall and just as far as possible from where we use the hot water. Regardless of the heater, all the plumbing pipes are buried under the house and they have to "warm up" before useful hot water is available. We waste time and water while waiting for warm water to arrive at the shower or sinks. I would hope that someday all new houses here are equipped with pipes that are "pre-heated" or well-insulated to eliminate this waste of time and water. It would be appropriate if this topic were on the long list of things to consider at the "Villages Design Center" prior to having a new home built. The hot water situation is our only major disappointment with the new place and it's not a "warranty issue" of course, but is a constant source of irritation. I'd much rather have a regular hot water heater in a closet than this unsightly thing hanging on the outside of the new house.( ---Rant done --- I know landscaping will grow and the water wells probably won't go dry during my lifetime.)

[Toymeister]

Originally Posted by ditka41

For reasons known only to the designer / builder, the tank is mounted on the outside of the garage wall and just as far as possible from where we use the hot water.

The reason it is placed there is it needs a 3/4" gas line. It is placed next to, or near the gas meter. A traditional heater uses a 1/2" line. It is cheaper to run water lines to it than a gas line inside the home. The venting is also an issue. These heaters use expensive vent pipes, far more expensive than the vent pipe that a traditional hot water heater uses. If it is placed outside it does not have any vent pipe at all, it vents directly to the atmosphere.

[rexxfan]

Originally Posted by CWGUY

Sorry I can't answer your question. I would be very interested in what "Toymeister" had to say on an outside tankless water heater and if there is a payback on installing one. Just looked at my gas bills for the last 12 months..... I don't think there is.

The house we bought had one already installed. It is nice having no gas bill the months we are not here. Other than that, it's OK. It does take quite a while for the hot water to reach the guest bath (a minute or two) but I don't really know if that is worse than if we had a conventional heater. There's also the issue of the so-called cold water sandwich (the brief burst of cold water you get if you temporarily turn off the hot and turn it back on again shortly thereafter). It doesn't bother me that much but it is something to think about. Would I have replaced a working conventional system based on the promise of savings? Probably not. The payback would probably take too long to make the investment worth it, especially considering the drawbacks.
--
bc

[rexxfan]

Originally Posted by ditka41

We recently purchased a new home in The Villages that has a GAS, Outside, tankless, water heater that was touted to be "almost instant". While it is probably true that it heats the water rapidly, we wait for several minutes to get hot water flowing at the kitchen and bathrooms. For reasons known only to the designer / builder, the tank is mounted on the outside of the garage wall and just as far as possible from where we use the hot water. Regardless of the heater, all the plumbing pipes are buried under the house and they have to "warm up" before useful hot water is available. We waste time and water while waiting for warm water to arrive at the shower or sinks. I would hope that someday all new houses here are equipped with pipes that are "pre-heated" or well-insulated to eliminate this waste of time and water. It would be appropriate if this topic were on the long list of things to consider at the "Villages Design Center" prior to having a new home built. The hot water situation is our only major disappointment with the new place and it's not a "warranty issue" of course, but is a constant source of irritation. I'd much rather have a regular hot water heater in a closet than this unsightly thing hanging on the outside of the new house.( ---Rant done --- I know landscaping will grow and the water wells probably won't go dry during my lifetime.)

Ours is mounted on the wall immediately adjacent to the master bath, which seems like a pretty good choice. We get hot wather in the shower very quickly. Not so much in the guest bath, but we don't have guests very often.
--
bc

[ditka41]

Agree that the location of kitchen, and especially master bathroom should be taken into consideration by the builder. Our wait time (this morning) was 4 minutes and 20 seconds before water was warm enough to shower. Not a good sight watching an old guy stand there impatiently waiting. So, I have time to shave, or something else. Just need to learn to live with it, I guess. The water heater location should be discussed further when considering building.

[Velvet]

...

[CWGUY]

Originally Posted by rexxfan

The house we bought had one already installed. It is nice having no gas bill the months we are not here. Other than that, it's OK. It does take quite a while for the hot water to reach the guest bath (a minute or two) but I don't really know if that is worse than if we had a conventional heater. There's also the issue of the so-called cold water sandwich (the brief burst of cold water you get if you temporarily turn off the hot and turn it back on again shortly thereafter). It doesn't bother me that much but it is something to think about. Would I have replaced a working conventional system based on the promise of savings? Probably not. The payback would probably take too long to make the investment worth it, especially considering the drawbacks.
--
bc

I have to stop driving myself crazy. You have me confused (as do a lot of posters) I'm sitting here with my latest TECO bill in my hand. Total amount due $28.70 of that amount $14.25 is a CUSTOMER CHARGE. It's there each and every month and has nothing to do with how much gas I use. Even if you are away you have a GAS BILL. And by the way..... I am full time with a gas furnace, gas stove and a new energy efficient 40 gal. gas hot water TANK for me and the wife. So that means I used $14.55 worth of gas last month. Can't find the receipt for the tank but know it was a little over $500 and TECO sent me a rebate check for $500 I found that paperwork in my TECO file. Like "villagerjack" says " I can not imagine how you can recoup their cost for a tankless."

[villagerjack]

Originally Posted by CWGUY

I have to stop driving myself crazy. You have me confused (as do a lot of posters) I'm sitting here with my latest TECO bill in my hand. Total amount due $28.70 of that amount $14.25 is a CUSTOMER CHARGE. It's there each and every month and has nothing to do with how much gas I use. Even if you are away you have a GAS BILL. And by the way..... I am full time with a gas furnace, gas stove and a new energy efficient 40 gal. gas hot water TANK for me and the wife. So that means I used $14.55 worth of gas last month. Can't find the receipt for the tank but know it was a little over $500 and TECO sent me a rebate check for $500 I found that paperwork in my TECO file. Like "villagerjack" says " I can not imagine how you can recoup their cost for a tankless."

Current rebate which plumber Scott gets sent to him is $600+ making the cost of the brand new Rheem 40 gallon just over $600 installed.

[CWGUY]

Originally Posted by villagerjack

Current rebate which plumber Scott gets sent to him is $600+ making the cost of the brand new Rheem 40 gallon just over $600 installed.

Conservation Rebates - Peoples Gas


Just looked again... I was wrong - rebate was $400. The $500 rebate was 6/17 to replace a/c and furnace.

[rexxfan]

Originally Posted by CWGUY

I have to stop driving myself crazy. You have me confused (as do a lot of posters) I'm sitting here with my latest TECO bill in my hand. Total amount due $28.70 of that amount $14.25 is a CUSTOMER CHARGE. It's there each and every month and has nothing to do with how much gas I use. Even if you are away you have a GAS BILL. And by the way..... I am full time with a gas furnace, gas stove and a new energy efficient 40 gal. gas hot water TANK for me and the wife. So that means I used $14.55 worth of gas last month. Can't find the receipt for the tank but know it was a little over $500 and TECO sent me a rebate check for $500 I found that paperwork in my TECO file. Like "villagerjack" says " I can not imagine how you can recoup their cost for a tankless."

Clearly I meant no gas usage. I just got lazy and didn't type the extra sentence to point out that the customer charge still applies. I sorta thought everyone knew that ...
--
bc

[Toymeister]

Originally Posted by Velvet

But, aren’t we the first world? It would be strange if we had, say, third world problems. I don’t like the idea of setting my shower and then the temperature varies involuntarily.

We may have a generational difference. First world problem means relatively trivial or minor problem. It was added to the Oxford on line dictonary in 2012. It is commonly used in on line discussions.

If the cold sandwich effect bothers you install the pump which I have already linked for you. Additionally there is a tempering tank or 3-5 gallon hot water heater after the tankless heater option. That is referenced in the article that I linked as well.

[CWGUY]

Originally Posted by rexxfan

Clearly I meant no gas usage. I just got lazy and didn't type the extra sentence to point out that the customer charge still applies. I sorta thought everyone knew that ...
--
bc

No big deal..... but I read posts not minds.

[New Englander]

I've always wanted a tank-less water heater. But after reading this post I don't want one. My forty gal electric does great.