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  #16  
Old 04-06-2011, 01:27 PM
tony tony is offline
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Default What about copyright and jokes posted?

I will now post a treatise on copyright and jokes, those jokes posted in our forum Just for Fun, for example.

Those of you who are not interested are dismissed. English majors may stick around and nod in agreement, or not. Lawyers are instructed to read closely and correct me if I am wrong. I have been known to be wrong. Ask Mrs. Tony.

A member asked me a question about passing along jokes that he receives in email to others. He wanted to know if he would be liable.

I said something like the following, paraphrasing poorly, for sure.
Strictly speaking, yes.

I give much, much broader leeway, however, in our Just for Fun forum. Jokes have generally been circulating for years, and the original authors have not asserted their copyrights, and therefore lose the copyright.

For example, when we in the newspaper business ever used the word coke to refer to a soft drink, we got a snotty letter from Coca Cola asserting its trademark registration in this case. (Similar to copyright.) They told us to never do that again. There were asserting their right of ownership so they would not lose it.

The same thing happened with the word realtor. They wanted it used each time capitalized and followed by the registration mark of the circled R. Realtor is owned by the National Board of Realtors. It is not a word for general use, and the national board would take official umbrage. I, of course, put a stop to its being used at all and instead we called them real estate brokers, which is not registered.

The owner of formica, that stuff of countertop fame, was apparently asleep at the switch and did not assert registration or copyright and lost that word to the public domain. It started out in life a word invented by the Formica Corporation for a product, but now we all own it and can use it lower case with impunity. formica formica formica formica formica.

In the case of jokes, if you would ever lift a joke verbatim from a professional comedian who sweated and worked at getting that gag, you could expect to get slapped.

Mostly, though, jokes are seldom claimed by anybody or are lost to the public domain. They also are stories told through the ages from one generation to the next with changes being made appropriate for the times.

If we were to receive a notice about a joke being stolen or infringing, we would remove it and hope the poster would not be fined.


So, if you see a sentence in the newspaper like, "The realtors relaxed after a day's work, sitting around drinking coke and talking about formica," be assured the newspaper will get letters from the National Association of Realtors and from Coca Cola, but not from the Formica Corporation. It will get under the skin of Formica Corporation, though, and it will once again slap the lawyer who didn't assert enough. formica formica formica formica formica.

I am betting we will not get letters on my infractions here, though, because I am writing a treatise.

Well, what do the English majors and lawyers think about this pressing issue?
  #17  
Old 04-06-2011, 01:37 PM
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I have a sneaking suspicion that you will hear from neither.
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  #18  
Old 04-06-2011, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony View Post
.........Well, what do the English majors and lawyers think about this pressing issue?
Dear Mr. Tony, Mr. Admin, Sir:

My guess is that a lot of English majors are too busy going to law school because they gave up on writing the great American novel until they can find out how to interpret that thing that says, "Any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental."

Boomer

(Uh oh. I just jumped the track again. Back to you, Chet.)
  #19  
Old 04-06-2011, 03:34 PM
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Also, any resemblance to my treatise being correctly is pure coincident, also, as I said before, since I am not an English major or a jurist who is schooled in the law who knows how to write good.
  #20  
Old 04-06-2011, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony View Post
The same thing happened with the word realtor. They wanted it used each time capitalized and followed by the registration mark of the circled R. Realtor is owned by the National Board of Realtors. It is not a word for general use, and the national board would take official umbrage. I, of course, put a stop to its being used at all and instead we called them real estate brokers, which is not registered.
Hi Mr. Tony,
True, Realtor is a registered trademark and should never be lowercase. However, a real estate broker is not the same as a real estate agent. Most people who use Realtor incorrectly are referring to real estate agents, not brokers.

Oh wait. Since I'm neither an English major nor a lawyer, I guess you didn't ask me.
  #21  
Old 04-06-2011, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Pturner View Post
Hi Mr. Tony,
True, Realtor is a registered trademark and should never be lowercase. However, a real estate broker is not the same as a real estate agent. Most people who use Realtor incorrectly are referring to real estate agents, not brokers.

Oh wait. Since I'm neither an English major nor a lawyer, I guess you didn't ask me.
In Florida they are either real estate sales associates or real estate brokers. Agent is generally used for both and is described as "a person who represents another person in a fiduciary relationship".

You can sell real estate in Florida without being a Realtor, but in most cases that means you have no access to Multiple Listing Services and some other benefits of paying your dues (literally). A great example of someone selling real estate that is not a Realtor - a sales representative that works for TV. They are licensed real estate sales associates or real estate brokers, but not Realtors.
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  #22  
Old 04-09-2011, 06:58 PM
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I posted this earlier didn't see a response, if there was one, sorry. Why can't you post a disclaimer that says "posts/quotes by members are their opinions and are not endorsed by the administrators", dah dah dah, movies/tv shows post this at the beginning of their programs..gn
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  #23  
Old 04-09-2011, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnut View Post
I posted this earlier didn't see a response, if there was one, sorry. Why can't you post a disclaimer that says "posts/quotes by members are their opinions and are not endorsed by the administrators", dah dah dah, movies/tv shows post this at the beginning of their programs..gn
Posting an opinion is one thing. Plagiarism is a completely different. An opinion is the property of the one who opines. Plagiarism is the stealing of another persons writings.
  #24  
Old 04-09-2011, 07:44 PM
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Wait a minute you mean I have had it wrong from as far back as my colledge days when we believed that stealing one sentence was plagiarism but copying many paragraphs was considered research...Ugh
  #25  
Old 04-09-2011, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyBoy View Post
In Florida they are either real estate sales associates or real estate brokers. Agent is generally used for both and is described as "a person who represents another person in a fiduciary relationship".

You can sell real estate in Florida without being a Realtor, but in most cases that means you have no access to Multiple Listing Services and some other benefits of paying your dues (literally). A great example of someone selling real estate that is not a Realtor - a sales representative that works for TV. They are licensed real estate sales associates or real estate brokers, but not Realtors.
Hi BogeyBoy,
I could be wrong, but I think you are referring to a situation that is peculiar to TV. As I understand a real estate agent (even in FL) generally works for a broker. The license requirements for the broker and an agent are different.

A Florida real estate agent who does not work for TV may sell property listed on the MLS regardless of whether he/she is a Realtor. The agent is a Realtor only if he/she is a member of the National Board of Realtors. That's because Realtor is simply a registered trademark of the National Board of Realtors. Essentially, it's a marketing term.

The reason non-TV real estate agents cannot sell TV-owned property is because TV refused to list its properties on the MLS. Initially, TV's sales associates were still able to sell MLS listings. However their right to do so was rescinded as a result of a lawsuit.

BTW, because the TV sales office calls its staff "sales associates" and not agents, I've often wondered if TV requires all of its sales associates to have an agent's license.
  #26  
Old 04-10-2011, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pturner View Post
Hi BogeyBoy,
I could be wrong, but I think you are referring to a situation that is peculiar to TV. As I understand a real estate agent (even in FL) generally works for a broker. The license requirements for the broker and an agent are different.

A Florida real estate agent who does not work for TV may sell property listed on the MLS regardless of whether he/she is a Realtor. The agent is a Realtor only if he/she is a member of the National Board of Realtors. That's because Realtor is simply a registered trademark of the National Board of Realtors. Essentially, it's a marketing term.

The reason non-TV real estate agents cannot sell TV-owned property is because TV refused to list its properties on the MLS. Initially, TV's sales associates were still able to sell MLS listings. However their right to do so was rescinded as a result of a lawsuit.

BTW, because the TV sales office calls its staff "sales associates" and not agents, I've often wondered if TV requires all of its sales associates to have an agent's license.
Hi Pturner,

I wasn't really referring to TV, there are many instances where real estate is sold without the involvement of any MLS or Realtor. Another example would be an exclusive high rise condo somewhere in south Florida. When they first start selling units they often were sold only by their elite team of sales people. Those sales representatives would have no reason to become a Realtor or join the Board of Realtors but they still need a license from Florida. It might surprise people to know that a rental agent who gets paid commission also needs to have the same license.

People refer to anyone who sells real estate as a real estate "agent". If you ask anyone in Florida who sells real estate to show you their license it will say one of two things: "Real Estate Sales Associate" or "Real Estate Broker". (Florida Real Estate Commission/FREC Chapter 475.) The licensing, education, and experience levels are higher to become a broker. Many people have a broker's license but still pretty much work as sales people for another broker who owns an agency.

As I had mentioned earlier most Multiple Listing Services are run by a Board of Realtors and if you don't sign up and become a Realtor you do not have access to the MLS. (It got so tricky for a while that I not only had to enter my password to get access, I had a small device that assigned a random code every time I logged in. If I didn't have the random code access was denied, that way I couldn't just let someone use my password to browse around the MLS.) You are correct that TV used to have access to the MLS, they pretty much shut that down overnight a number of years ago. (I guess when they determined they had enough resales of their own and wanted more control of what went on with sales in TV. In my opinion TV walks a fine line meeting the requirement of FREC and they have the resources to keep on the correct side of that line. Independent agencies use more "pre-written" contracts that cover every possible aspect of the law because there is the possibility of selling such a wide variety of properties.)

Okay, let's drop this, I think I would rather continue the discussion about fitted golf clubs now!
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  #27  
Old 08-20-2012, 08:27 PM
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ohhhhhhh you are one funny character, i couldnt believe you just did that........
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