tuccillo, I think you missed pennbf's point. It is about entitlement. For instance, the villages bicycle club has a shirt that says in big letters "Same road, Same rules". Or something like that. But the rules are really not the same for autos and bicycles; no insurance required for bikes, no "drivers" license, no license plate/registration, no stop lights, etc. Not even a helmet requirement when motorcycle riders were required to wear many years ago in Florida. So the rules are not the same. But the bikers like to say this because it justifies to them their equal right to the whole lane.

Using the whole lane is not only the law but it is also a safety issue. Please see my previous posts about why cyclists should use the entire lane on some occasions. Issues such as insurance and licensing really have nothing to do with the rules of the road; those are administrative issues. Nearly everyone runs stop signs and there are a lot more cars running stop signs then bicycles. As I stated earlier, bicycles are essentially slow moving cars and need to be treated as such.You should pass cyclists when it is safe and lawful to do so, just as you would a slower moving car. This is really a pretty simple concept.

If you are unhappy with the law then you are free to try to change it. Regarding pennbfs' post, I didn't miss the point; he was trolling.

There have been lots of threads here complaining about heavy traffic on Morse and Buena Vista, and about how some think that the 2-lane-exit roundabouts ought to be made one lane to lessen the confusion about which lane they must be in (never mind the signs with diagrams before each roundabout, that clearly diagram which lane you need to choose for turning right, left, or continuing straight).

I'm mind boggled when I see bike riders and somebody above state that they purposely occupy the whole lane, which forces the motorist to get into the left lane to pass them, and the need to pass is because the bicyclist is only going 15-20 mph and the speed limit is 35!!!!

So the cyclist forces you to pass them in the left lane, in heavy traffic, but you need to be in the right lane to choose the proper lane upon entering the roundabout ahead. They make you unable to go the speed limit AND be in the correct lane at the entrance of the roundabout due to the lane being full after passing!!

A couple of points. The lanes are not wide enough to contain both a car and a bike plus the required 3 feet of clearance. Therefore, a bike may essentially occupy an entire lane. Secondly, there is no minimum speed limit on Buena Vista. Just as with a slower moving car, it is up to the passing vehicle to pass, in the left hand lane, when it is safe to do so. If you do not have sufficient time to pass and get back in the right hand lane before the roundabout then you must remain in the right hand lane. Sorry that you are be inconvenienced but cyclists get to use the road also. It is your responsibility to share the road in a safe and lawful manner.

This is the arrogance. Why do bicyclists want to hold up of a string of cars/trucks behind them, by going 15-20 on the bike when everyone else can be going 30-35????

How about some consideration for the majority of vehicle drivers who want to keep traffic flowing at 30-35 mph??

Same road - same rules?

When the large group of bicyclers go blowing through the stop signs, is that the same rules as cars or carts?

Most of the time, it does not bother me at all when a single cycler does that but really gets me when the group of 15 or so cyclers all do it together.

Cyclists are allowed to use the roads just like cars. If this is an inconvenience to you that is just something you are going to have to live with. The roads are a shared resource. That is the way things work in society. It is arrogant of you to think that the roads do not have to be shared.

It bothers me when I see cars blow through stop signs. It bothers me when I am passed illegally on two-lane roads. It bothers me when people change lanes without using their turn signals. I could go on but I think you see the point.

Why you would continue to hold onto a belief that cars have more of a right to the roads than cyclists is beyond me. Cyclists have just as much of a right to use the roads as cars.

And there you have it, asked and answered

Yes, but please do use it (as I am sure you do) with consideration for others.

Similar to a few groups of walkers on the multi-modal trails who walk side by side and literally take the entire width of the trail - and do not want to make way for either bikes or carts.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Disagree on what? The facts? There is nothing to debate here - I am only passing on the law.

I don't want to disagree with you in this forum but think you'll be surprised if you check with sheriff's dept.

Thank you for supporting the group of us who ride bikes in Villages by stating actual laws and facts but you are pounding your head into a cement wall. There is a certain level of uniformed opinions on this website at times that don't believe water is wet and won't be convinced outerwise.

:BigApplause: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

So many cyclists share the misconception that they own the road and are entitled to tie up traffic at any speed they choose. Florida law IS explicit about this! Regardless of how many times the link to the Florida State Code is offered on this forum, there are still those who insist on interpreting it as it suits them. Thank God there are still some rational, informed cyclists out there!

The only way this issue will be resolved is if cyclists are required to be educated, tested and licensed if they choose to use public roads. That is the case in California; if they violate traffic laws there, they are ticketed, fined or hauled off in handcuffs, just like any other irresponsible driver.

Your point on California was very interesting so I looked it up.
Http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/about/bicycle

Sharing the road (FFDL37)
How far to the right?
Ride in the right lane but not so far that you may hit the curb. You could lose your balance and fall into traffic. Do not ride too far to the right. When a traffic lane is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side.

When to take the traffic lane :BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause:
" narrow road ride closer to the center of the lane. This will prevent motorists from passing you when there is not enough room."

Look up the law and post it so the bikers can read it.

Yes the law is what it is, till it is changed...I will pass my suggestion for testing, plates, and ticketing to those that will listen. Some of those might be interested in the revenue possibilities.

Sure, regular shorts and a regular shirt would not bring enough attention your way....Sport?

There is no way to accurately determine the 3' distance, if you feel safe with that; it seems to me that your the one that needs to consider "your own peril". I will also suggest requiring bicyclist to have insurance coverage for damage to cars in the event they "fall into" a car that is passing...just in case 3' turns out not to be enough room.

FDOT considers a lane that is less than 14 feet wide to be too narrow for most motor vehicles to safely pass a bicycle within the lane.

How wide is BV?

BV, Morse south of 466, El Camino Real, and Stillwater Tr. between Morse and BV all have lanes 11 feet wide. Classified as sub-standard width by Florida law which means there is not enough room for a bicycle, scooter, rollerblader, motorcycle, lawnmower, and a car to travel in at the same time.
USE THE OTHER LANE.

Passing a bicycle should be done in as safe a manor as possible. Use the second lane if available, allow 3 feet or more on the path, yes they should use the left lane in a round about if turning left.

However, I don't care if your feet are bolted to the pedal you have no legal right to blow through stop signs and red lights. Maybe it's not convenient to unclip, than find a different solution.

I ride a motorcycle. It's not convenient to stop and place my feet on the pavement at stop signs either. Sand causes foot to slip, bike is heavy, etc. I am still breaking the law if I don't stop. And so are bicycle riders if they don't stop. And many many more don't stop than do stop.

One more time. You are wrong. Please pay attention this time. This has already been posted but I will do it one more time. If the road is not sufficiently wide for a bike and a car to coexist with at least 3 feet of clearance than the bike is entitled to the lane. Bikes are not required to ride as far right as possible - they are required to ride as far right as the condition of the road allows. If the road is too narrow for a bike and car to coexist with 3 feet of clearance than it really doesn't matter. Most of the roads in The Villages are too narrow for a bike and car to coexist in the same lane.

You go ahead and do that.

Why would you possibly care what other people wear when they are biking? As I said, biking shorts are padded. What part of that did you fail to understand?

Nobody claimed that rolling through stop signs is legal in FL, although it is legal in some states such as Idaho. Many cars roll through stop signs also. In fact, I would say many more cars roll through stop signs, when it is clear, than come to a complete stop in my Village. It is what it is. I am just informing you of why. Move on.

Tuccillo... If you read back on posts about bicycling, you will find that I am a staunch defender of cyclists' right to the road, even though I am not a cyclist myself. I would like to point out, though, that comments like "move on" used to defend yourselves from breaking the road laws are what lead to cyclers being labeled as arrogant, entitled, and otherwise special. My suggestion would be to make your initial statement, but leave any impertinent declaratives out of it. Nobody, but nobody likes to be told what to do.

Uh, because autos pay for the roads through licensing and gasoline taxes; because roads were built for autos, not bikes, ergo the 15 ft width. Does that help?

Cyclists don't have cars and dont pay for licensing and gas taxes?

You are wrong and I am going to tell you why;

(1) There is no way to accurately determine the width of a lane from behind the wheel of a car. If you want to leave that responsibility entirely to a driver of a car (especially one in a retirement community), you could end up dead right.

(2) Bikes are required to ride as far right as possible, obviously conditions of the road would limit how far right is "possible". You are playing word games with your safety. Your padded shorts and spandex blouse are not going to help much if you get in an accident with a vehicle.

(3) If the road is too narrow for bike and car to coexist with 3' of clearance it certainly does matter. You are inconveniencing a number of other people for your personal enjoyment. You see any joggers running down the middle of the lane causing cars to pile up behind them??

I believe the attitude becomes "super hero" the moment they put on the silly outfit.

Not sure if all of them do or not, what is the intended point there?

I do know; if I own more than one car, I have to pay for more than one license plate and I pay road tax on each of the vehicles. I also am required to have insurance in case I am involved in an accident and I have to pass a test to have the privileged to operate the vehicle on the road.

I am not defending anything. Bikes and cars both roll through stop signs. Cars do it a lot more than bikes because there are a lot more cars than bikes on the roads. Whining about anyone rolling through stop signs is a waste of time. Nearly everyone does it, therefore, move on to your next topic.

As has been already pointed out, most of the roads in The Villages are substandard width and cannot accommodate a car and a bike with the required 3 feet of clearance. Bikes have just as much of a right to the road as cars. Why you would choose to argue this fact is still beyond me. Most cyclists own cars so they are paying for the roads. Does this clear things up for you?

They are more than welcome to drive their cars on the road and "own their lane".

Every vehicle I use on the road helps pay for that road, which is fine since I am using the road. When I ride my bike on the road, that bike isn't contributing to the building or maintenance of the road. It's a "free benefit for me. I always yield to autos. I find being extra courteous to motorists while cycling along the road, moving as far left as SAFELY as possible, usually results in the motorists giving plenty of room as they pass. But by all means, "own that lane" at your peril. And don't forget to step off of the curb into that pedestrian crosswalk without looking to see if that car is going to turn into you. After all, you are in a pedestrian crosswalk and it is up to the motorist to yield to you.

Why you would choose to defend a position that is counter to the law is beyond me. One more time. If the road is too narrow to accommodate a car and a bike with 3 feet of clearance then the bike is entitled to the lane. Bikes have as much right to the roads as cars. If you are inconvenienced that is too bad - just as you would be inconvenienced by a car driving slower than you wish. Roads are a shared resource and the law is written that cars and bikes share the road. If you don't like the law then work to change it. Complaining accomplishes nothing.

Many people ride bikes on the roads in The Villages. Your posts suggest that you harbor resentment towards these people. Life is too short to have anger in your heart.

Read the law!!! This time, don't interpret it to your advantage. Apparently, to cyclists who hog the roads and hold vehicular traffic behind them, Buena Vista and 466 are not "wide enough". If an automobile did that, they'd be ticketed for obstruction of traffic. Again, READ THE LAW!

Go back reread the posts. Both the police and bike clubs talk about "owning the lane" in situations where doing otherwise will put the cyclist in danger. Why this is such a difficult concept to understand is truly a mystery.

I have read the law. Buena Vista is not wide enough for a car and bike in the same lane with 3 feet of clearance. You should move over the left hand lane when passing, just as you would for a slower moving car. Cyclists do not "hog" the road - they are allowed by law to use the roads, just like cars.

There is no minimum speed limit on Buena Vista. A car can drive well below the speed limit, say 15 mph, legally.

The concept of "owning the lane" applies to situations where you need to prevent a car from "crowding" you in a lane and putting you in danger. As I previously pointed out, the classic example is a curve on a 2-lane road. Under those situation, cyclists are advised to move into the middle of the lane to eliminate the possibility of being "crowded" by those who don't obey the 3 foot clearance law. When approaching roundabouts, it is also a good idea to move to the middle of the lane.

Most cyclists I know ride within about 3 feet of the curb on roads such as Buena Vista. Hugging the curb is dangerous because of debris near the curb and catch basins. This does not leave sufficient room for a car since the lanes are too narrow. In other words, even though most cyclists are as far right as is practical, the lane still cannot accommodate a car and a bike. The vast majority of drivers apparently have no problem swinging into the left hand lane to pass when it is safe to do so.

What's needed here is a 3 foot rubber stick mounted to the centerline of the bike sticking out perpendicular to the left. The bike club can keep a tally of how many wack-o-las there are on an on going basis. There is all kinds of interesting data that can be gathered. Wack-o-las per time of day, wack-o-las Vs. how many lanes, wack-o-las Vs. neighborhood, wack-o-las Vs. vehicle type etc. Gather all this info and hand it off to the authorities and sit back and observe how they deal with the wack-o-las.