Talk of The Villages Florida

Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Replacing your home's HVAC System? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/replacing-your-homes-hvac-system-359741/)

jrref 07-03-2025 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithos (Post 2443014)
You make a good point. But if the repair is far less expensive than replacing the entire system then it might be a preferred option. If the 410A componenty is no longer available, then there will only be one choice.

Right, I agree. The only reason why me and some of my neighbors replaced our systems now is because they are at a age where anything can start failing and for some of our neighbors it already has. The 25C Federal tax credits will most likely not be extended beyond 2025 and for a new Carrier Infinity Greenspeed system for example, you get a $2,000 credit, not deduction, but Credit. Also, Carrier and some HVAC companies are offering instant rebates so, right now you can get a $16-$17K system for $12-$13K net with 10 years of parts AND Labor. This same system, even if the cost remains the same will cost $2,000 more next year because of the loss of the Federal credits. If you figure a basic single stage unit will cost anywhere fr0m $8-$9K, maybe $10K if you have a furnace then you may want to consider the "better" system since you will be able to make-up the couple thousand dollars in energy savings.

So far, my new system is exceptional in keeping the temperature and humidity constant and from what I can tell, it's consuming about half the electric that my old circa 2016 system was consuming. I'm not saying everyone should do what I did but just be aware of the current situation and plan appropriately.

jrref 07-03-2025 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2443019)
I would just add that the Federal Government requires HVAC companies to account for and to recycle refrigerants that they remove from old HVAC systems that they remove from service. They cannot dispose of these refrigerants. That is why there are usually older refrigerants available for use for HVAC repairs.

Interesting you brought that up. I asked Sunshine what they were going to do with my old working unit and they said it goes to a company where they recycle it. I'm guessing they remover the old refrigerant and "process" it somehow and recycle all the metal, etc.... You just can't remove the old refrigerant and re-use it becasue you don't know if its contaminated so there must be some recycling process they use.

ithos 07-03-2025 08:03 AM

I believe that if you can afford a variable speed compressor you will have significantly lower electric rates and the life of the compressor will be much longer not to mention it is great for humidity control.

The third – and most crucial law for energy savings – reveals that the power consumed by these components is related to the cube of their speed. So, a small reduction in speed can lead to a significant drop in power usage and, consequently, energy costs.
What is the Affinity Law – and what does it have to do with your HVAC system?
*

jrref 07-03-2025 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithos (Post 2443033)
I believe that if you can afford a variable speed compressor you will have significantly lower electric rates and the life of the compressor will be much longer not to mention it is great for humidity control.

The third – and most crucial law for energy savings – reveals that the power consumed by these components is related to the cube of their speed. So, a small reduction in speed can lead to a significant drop in power usage and, consequently, energy costs.
What is the Affinity Law – and what does it have to do with your HVAC system?
*

Wow, thanks, that's a great article supporting these newer Variable speed inverter systems. It's unfortunate many have no idea about the technology and why it's important to understand when making a decision on what replacement system to invest in. It "pains me" when I read about all the Villagers who just jump at the cheapest system they can get their hands on and feel they got a "good deal" and made the "right choice" because of the cost without any regards or understanding on what they purchased and will be living with for the next 10-15 years.

jrref 07-03-2025 03:43 PM

So, it's final, the "One Big Beautiful Bill Act" (OBBBA), which includes provisions to eliminate the 25C Energy Efficient Home Improvement Credit at the end of 2025 has passed by congress. This means 2025 may be the last year to claim the 25C credit for eligible upgrades. If you are planning to replace your HVAC system you might want to take a serious look now.

ithos 07-03-2025 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrref (Post 2443065)
Wow, thanks, that's a great article supporting these newer Variable speed inverter systems. It's unfortunate many have no idea about the technology and why it's important to understand when making a decision on what replacement system to invest in. It "pains me" when I read about all the Villagers who just jump at the cheapest system they can get their hands on and feel they got a "good deal" and made the "right choice" because of the cost without any regards or understanding on what they purchased and will be living with for the next 10-15 years.

If the techs had worked in naval propulsion it would be very familiar to them. It not clear at first but the compressor running 100% half of the time would consume approximately 4x more power than the compressor running 50% all of the time under the same conditions.

Good catch on the tax credit. If I looked it up correctly, the max savings for heat pumps is $2000.

jrref 07-03-2025 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithos (Post 2443134)
If the techs had worked in naval propulsion it would be very familiar to them. It not clear at first but the compressor running 100% half of the time would consume approximately 4x more power than the compressor running 50% all of the time under the same conditions.

Good catch on the tax credit. If I looked it up correctly, the max savings for heat pumps is $2000.

That's correct. On qualifying heat pump systems you can get up to $2,000 credit. That's a lot of money to pass up.

Malsua 07-04-2025 06:21 AM

I just want to chime in a little. I am a licensed, certified, insured and bonded home inspector and I have inspected north of 500 homes here in TV.

In the past, I did a lot of industrial work, including, but not limited to installing boilers and HVAC equipment both commercially and residentially.

There is a method to calculate your home's HVAC requirement, emphasis on the AC, and it's called a Manual J. It is a long, sorta complicated method but it'll come out accurate.

You don't have to do this though as it's already been done for the home you live in. Unless you have altered your structure, the size of the heat pump or AC you have(if you have a furnace as well), is what you should stick with.

I have inspected two homes this year where the home owner was from up north, and wanted the house to be 71 during the day and 66 at night. While not such a problem in January, when they come down in July, it's not going to happen with the original condenser.

In both cases, they got larger units.(i.e. 1 ton larger and 1.5 in the other) In both cases, the units short cycle most of the year(both inspections were in the spring) and the humidity in the home was never controlled properly. The system wouldn't run long enough to get the humidity out before set temp was hit.

The other issue about running 71 degrees while it's 93 with an 80% relative humidity is that every leaky spot in your house will be found after a while as the paint flecks off and the wood trim around the windows and doors starts to rot from all the condensate. Yes, when you sell, your home inspector will find it.

You can typically upsize half a ton without too much drama, but if your current size does not struggle in July, that's the size you should keep.

One final thought. Of all the homes that are 15+ years old and still have the same system? The brand is pretty much always Trane. I have seen one 21 year old Carrier system and probably 25 Tranes that are 20+. My neighbor has a 26YO Trane.

birdawg 07-04-2025 06:36 AM

Had ours changed in January 3.5 ton Carrier. 9254$. Plus 10 year parts and labor don’t know if that was good or bad? But I figured I’d stay with the original installer

jrref 07-04-2025 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malsua (Post 2443197)
I just want to chime in a little. I am a licensed, certified, insured and bonded home inspector and I have inspected north of 500 homes here in TV.

In the past, I did a lot of industrial work, including, but not limited to installing boilers and HVAC equipment both commercially and residentially.

There is a method to calculate your home's HVAC requirement, emphasis on the AC, and it's called a Manual J. It is a long, sorta complicated method but it'll come out accurate.

You don't have to do this though as it's already been done for the home you live in. Unless you have altered your structure, the size of the heat pump or AC you have(if you have a furnace as well), is what you should stick with.

I have inspected two homes this year where the home owner was from up north, and wanted the house to be 71 during the day and 66 at night. While not such a problem in January, when they come down in July, it's not going to happen with the original condenser.

In both cases, they got larger units.(i.e. 1 ton larger and 1.5 in the other) In both cases, the units short cycle most of the year(both inspections were in the spring) and the humidity in the home was never controlled properly. The system wouldn't run long enough to get the humidity out before set temp was hit.

The other issue about running 71 degrees while it's 93 with an 80% relative humidity is that every leaky spot in your house will be found after a while as the paint flecks off and the wood trim around the windows and doors starts to rot from all the condensate. Yes, when you sell, your home inspector will find it.

You can typically upsize half a ton without too much drama, but if your current size does not struggle in July, that's the size you should keep.

One final thought. Of all the homes that are 15+ years old and still have the same system? The brand is pretty much always Trane. I have seen one 21 year old Carrier system and probably 25 Tranes that are 20+. My neighbor has a 26YO Trane.

Thanks for all the good information. From what you are saying, further supports getting, if you can afford it, one of the variable speed inverter systems since it will adjust and only use the amount of cooling "power" it needs all the time. Also, you are correct, a manual J should have been done on every home when it was built but nevertheless, we still found systems 1/2 ton to 1 ton undersized. One was a 2600 sqft Begonia model with a 3 ton heat pump system. Nothing special just undersized with smaller ductwork. The homeowner just thought the system was supposed to run a long time and never cool to his desired set temperature during very hot weather.

Here in the Villages, Trane and Carrier are mostly installed so the local HVAC companies have the most parts, trained techs and manufacturer support with these brands. Both companies are excellent but I think once your system gets to about 15+ years, it's probably time to start doing some research on a new unit when you are ready since although your system may run to 20+ years, here in Florida where we run our systems all year long if we have a heat pump, your system probably isn't running as efficient as it could and there may be more efficient systems that will save you money. You just need to investigate. For example, I had a neighbor who ran his 13 SEER and 75% efficient furnace until it stopped for 25 years when maybe he should have replaced it sooner with a 15 or 16 SEER 95% unit and saved money in the long run. This was in NY. The question whether to replace or repair is an on-going debate but at the end of the day it's going to depend on eveyone's specific situation.

jrref 07-04-2025 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdawg (Post 2443203)
Had ours changed in January 3.5 ton Carrier. 9254$. Plus 10 year parts and labor don’t know if that was good or bad? But I figured I’d stay with the original installer

It depends on what you purchased?

Heat pump or Furnace?
Seer Rating
A/C unit size, how many tons?
Single or 2 stage or variable speed system?
Who was the company? Was it a transferrable labor warranty or from the local company? One thing you have to remember, if the labor warranty is from the local company you need to consider if that company will be in business for the next 5-10 years. I'm sure most will be but you need to consider that.

Malsua 07-04-2025 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrref (Post 2443207)
Thanks for all the good information. From what you are saying, further supports getting, if you can afford it, one of the variable speed inverter systems since it will adjust and only use the amount of cooling "power" it needs all the time. Also, you are correct, a manual J should have been done on every home when it was built but nevertheless, we still found systems 1/2 ton to 1 ton undersized. One was a 2600 sqft Begonia model with a 3 ton heat pump system. Nothing special just undersized with smaller ductwork. The homeowner just thought the system was supposed to run a long time and never cool to his desired set temperature during very hot weather.

Here in the Villages, Trane and Carrier are mostly installed so the local HVAC companies have the most parts, trained techs and manufacturer support with these brands. Both companies are excellent but I think once your system gets to about 15+ years, it's probably time to start doing some research on a new unit when you are ready since although your system may run to 20+ years, here in Florida where we run our systems all year long if we have a heat pump, your system probably isn't running as efficient as it could and there may be more efficient systems that will save you money. You just need to investigate. For example, I had a neighbor who ran his 13 SEER and 75% efficient furnace until it stopped for 25 years when maybe he should have replaced it sooner with a 15 or 16 SEER 95% unit and saved money in the long run. This was in NY.

Yes, definitely an inverter heat pump will save energy and have enough juice to get you through peak July. You pay a premium for those but ultimately they are a much higher seer rating, so it'll pay off after some period.

A 3 ton unit in a 2600sq home is definitely wrong. Someone was trying to pocket a few dollars.

I know my 2.5 ton struggles in my home but we added 12 feet across the back of the entire home. Half of that width is an enclosed lanai(now 24x15), but even with that door closed, the AC still can't keep up during the hottest days.

We ended up putting in a 1.5 ton mini in the Lanai and now we just let that run and the extra cold it makes spills into the house and the main system cycles normally.

One final note, I installed a heat pump water heater in my garage. It helps bring the heat level in the garage from parking oven to just warm ;). It also costs about $1 a month to run. lol. The old water heater was adding heat to the garage and cost about $13. It'll take a couple years to break even on that one, but after that it's essentially free.

Bay Kid 07-04-2025 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malsua (Post 2443219)
Yes, definitely an inverter heat pump will save energy and have enough juice to get you through peak July. You pay a premium for those but ultimately they are a much higher seer rating, so it'll pay off after some period.

A 3 ton unit in a 2600sq home is definitely wrong. Someone was trying to pocket a few dollars.

I know my 2.5 ton struggles in my home but we added 12 feet across the back of the entire home. Half of that width is an enclosed lanai(now 24x15), but even with that door closed, the AC still can't keep up during the hottest days.

We ended up putting in a 1.5 ton mini in the Lanai and now we just let that run and the extra cold it makes spills into the house and the main system cycles normally.

One final note, I installed a heat pump water heater in my garage. It helps bring the heat level in the garage from parking oven to just warm ;). It also costs about $1 a month to run. lol. The old water heater was adding heat to the garage and cost about $13. It'll take a couple years to break even on that one, but after that it's essentially free.

What was the cost of the heat pump water heater? I have a 21 year old hot water gas heater in the garage.

Malsua 07-04-2025 08:51 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bay Kid (Post 2443254)
What was the cost of the heat pump water heater? I have a 21 year old hot water gas heater in the garage.

There were having a sale about 4 months ago and the 40 gallon was $1370. I had probably $30 in fittings and pipe. I tied the condensate line into the existing condensate drain.

I've helped my plumber helper install a handful of these for other people since then and there's additional cost if you have your water heater in a closet because you have to add some ducting for the exhaust and open a supply hole in the upper wall of the utility closet. Here's one he did recently.

The white circle at the top of the wall is where the cold air comes out.

**Rheem makes a 120v version for gas conversion, so if you don't have 240v, you don't need to run new service**

retiredguy123 07-04-2025 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malsua (Post 2443197)
I just want to chime in a little. I am a licensed, certified, insured and bonded home inspector and I have inspected north of 500 homes here in TV.

In the past, I did a lot of industrial work, including, but not limited to installing boilers and HVAC equipment both commercially and residentially.

There is a method to calculate your home's HVAC requirement, emphasis on the AC, and it's called a Manual J. It is a long, sorta complicated method but it'll come out accurate.

You don't have to do this though as it's already been done for the home you live in. Unless you have altered your structure, the size of the heat pump or AC you have(if you have a furnace as well), is what you should stick with.

I have inspected two homes this year where the home owner was from up north, and wanted the house to be 71 during the day and 66 at night. While not such a problem in January, when they come down in July, it's not going to happen with the original condenser.

In both cases, they got larger units.(i.e. 1 ton larger and 1.5 in the other) In both cases, the units short cycle most of the year(both inspections were in the spring) and the humidity in the home was never controlled properly. The system wouldn't run long enough to get the humidity out before set temp was hit.

The other issue about running 71 degrees while it's 93 with an 80% relative humidity is that every leaky spot in your house will be found after a while as the paint flecks off and the wood trim around the windows and doors starts to rot from all the condensate. Yes, when you sell, your home inspector will find it.

You can typically upsize half a ton without too much drama, but if your current size does not struggle in July, that's the size you should keep.

One final thought. Of all the homes that are 15+ years old and still have the same system? The brand is pretty much always Trane. I have seen one 21 year old Carrier system and probably 25 Tranes that are 20+. My neighbor has a 26YO Trane.

If your last paragraph is trying to conclude that Trane is a better unit than Carrier, I would disagree. In the past (I think 15 to 20 years ago?) the developer installed only Trane, and then they switched to Carrier. This would account for there being more old Trane units than Carrier units. Also, the units being produced today have very little to do with the quality of today's products.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.32 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.