:ohdear: I give up!

I am scheduled to go to England a few weeks before Christmas. I wasn't calling anyone a liar. From my perspective, the size seems to be the same.

After reading this, I spoke to my friend in England who has visited me in the Villages several times. He agrees the roundabouts are close in size. If he had told me the opposite, I would have admitted my error in judgement.

This time, I will take a measuring tape if it makes you happy.

It is obvious the many larger ones are MUCH LARGER. But, I will measure those, as well.

A roundabout is an intersection. An intersection is where cars must cross over the paths of other vehicles. You allow the cars to cross over your path. That is the definition of yielding. Again, not rocket science.

//////

If you drive a crappy car, everyone will watch out for you!

Ok, that just made me laugh. You got the solution!

I have. But they were in a golf cart so it doesn't count.
Honest. At the roundabout by SeaBreeze. I thought for sure I was going to see a fatality, however, all of the automobile traffic stopped, and the driver of the cart got out of that situation alive and unharmed.
Not sure if she made it home or not.

YIKES! This seems to work really well if you are used to it. I know I would not want to encounter this type of RAB.

This is one of the comments on YouTube regarding this "Magic Roundabout".........

@malcolmabram2957I
2 years ago (edited)
"I encountered this once, just the once in the 80s. Did not understand the weird sign, had to do a 'third exit,' so none the wiser, drove on and went round the inside lane to meet an oncoming car. Both of us stopped. I was hopelessly confused and went round the outside carefully until I got the exit to the M1. I heard the person who designed this got an award. I would have charged him with manslaughter."

Very true. LOL.

The one time I witnesses a wrong way driver in a RAB, there was honking and pointing going on with all the drivers withing the RAB. Thank goodness all who were in the RAB were aware of the wayward driver who got out of the RAB without causing a collision.

Now that's roundabout! Brilliant. I particularly like the mini roundabouts within the Magic Roundabout.

I tend to be careful around the expensive brands and classic cars. Those drivers seem to believe they own the road. And, if I do cause an accident with one, I am most likely going to have to spend days in court. The owners will make certain they get every penny allowed. The man who owned a Lexus and beat an 87 yr old to death (and other similar stories) is something I remember and reminds me to be cautious.

The crappy cars are usually work vehicles. I watch them because they may not be familiar with the area.

Overestimation
 

Might you be overestimating humans' abilities? :-)

It seems that the root cause of almost all these roundabout mistakes is that the driver at fault foolishly ASSUMES that the car on the inside lane will keep going around. You know what they say about ASSUME?

Unfortunately too many don’t know what they are doing. The right lane must exit turn 1 or 2. The left lane can never exit the first turn but can exit turns 2, 3 or 4. If someone is next to them when they get to turn 3 the other car either failed to get off at exit 2 or failed to yield when entering on the opposite side, either way the car in the right lane would be at fault if anything happened.

All of that reasoning fails when you consider that cars can enter in 4 places. Counting the number of exits to apply rules to straight/exit per lane is different depending upon when they entered relative to yourself. There are combinations of where they enter, each follows every "rule" and yet their paths cross forcing someone to take evasive action.

It's not that they don't know what they are doing. It's that people are certain that only they know the rules. Everyone else does it wrong.

Rewind back to post #28 to see the discussions on why that statement is incorrect.

Attached is a picture of a type of mini roundabout in Europe. I drive extensively and have seen multitudes of similar in our country. I grew up in Pittsburgh where there are many.

The difference? Most Americans do not call these roundabouts. They treat them like a normal intersection stopping before going around. They are one lane and easy to navigate.

I have yet to witness an American driver keeping speed and not stopping before entering. In Europe, they do the opposite. Keep their speed unless another driver is at the circle. I often have to restrain my English friend when he is driving in the USA. He is an aggressive driver while most Americans are defensive drivers. This ticks him off and he wants to prove his point and then goes faster. Two different cultures; two different ways of looking at things.

In my opinion, the pic of what Europeans call a mini roundabout is not similar to the roundabouts in the Villages because there is no inner circle, no resident gates, and we have more RABS in close proximity on a given road.

Are the adjectives larger and smaller the correct ones to describe the difference? Probably not, sorry for my part of the confusion.

The above picture does not look like a roundabout to me. It looks like an intersection with a plant stuck in the middle.

Right! In America, that is how we describe them. An intersection. In Europe, they are called mini roundabouts.There are other types, some with a circle and arrows painted on the roads, but none which we would define as roundabouts in the States.

It only applies where you enter and what lane you’re in.

Wow
 

Wow.

Is that a golf cart roundabout?

4th exit at 6 o'clock...
 

Just adding here, most people seem to forget that option for a U-turn. You can definitely exit at "6" from the left lane as well. :smiley:

So *that's* why!!
 

Aha! The *real* reason that golf carts are so popular in TV! They allow you to avoid those scary roundabouts! :-)

I don't agree. And that is because you said "must" and "can never". Replace those with "should". Notice that the signs are green.

Once a car is in the roundabout in the inner lane, be ready for them to exit anywhere. Once a car is in the roundabout in the outer lane, be ready for them to pass any exit.

I remember that day...
 

I remember the day that you reported this as a thread starter. As an engineer trying to analyze this with a bit more information you supplied here, I believe that POSSIBLY both cars right, yet both at fault here.

I am assuming that this was a resident in the other car, because you stated that they exited the RAB and moved to the right lane instead of staying in the left lane like they should have done. The right lane AFTER EXITING the RAB is for residents at an entrance to a village. So the other car may have actually performed TWO maneuvers at the same time; exit AND quick lane change for the gate entry. Is that the case? I would like to know the exact RAB and the positions of each car's entry (i.e. 6, 3, 12, 6) to understand this better.

Based upon the presumption above, however, my best assessment would be that the car entering the RAB (yours) should not assume that entering the RAB and exiting at the first exit is a clear shot to the right lane. If there was a car inside the RAB IN ANY LANE before you enter, let them have their right of way.

In my opinion, you were in the right from one aspect, but the number 1 rule is to yield to ANY car in the RAB before you enter. The other car was wrong to switch lanes PRIOR to exiting (if that is what happened there), but if you yielded just 1 second longer there would not have been any incident.

If this went to court and there were mock-ups showing positions I believe that the other car would have been deemed "at fault", because from what I NOW see about your previous thread's story the other car might have changed lanes prior to its exit of the RAB. ???

Please correct anything that I am wrong about here. One thing is certain, DEFENSIVE DRIVING techniques (not sure if they are even taught anymore) are paramount in Villages roundabouts. Assume all drivers are out to get you. Snowbirds, new residents, older residents, and sightseeing traffic present worries to those of us that DO understand how roundabouts are actually very nice. We should watch out for them and maybe be a bit more understanding of their confusion.

Look at the arrows on the road for your answer.

Is there some law saying green traffic signs can be disregarded ? Never heard of a traffic control sign that means "should".

Evasive action happens only when someone does not yield. These RABs work beautifully, like a choreographed dance, when everyone yields to other vehicles at the correct times. Yielding is the key.

Just the other day, some young buck approached the RAB so fast, I just knew he was going to jump in ahead of me as I was approaching that exit. Sure enough, the guy sped into the RAB when he should have yielded to me. I let him know he was wrong, wrong, wrong with what he did and I layed on the horn. He thanked me by giving me the finger as he zoomed by me.

These scenarios are not correct. That is the point you are making, right? I hope you are trying to make the point that you must drive defensively in RAB because people will do stupid things and not adhere to the rules of the RABs.

Ok, I'll try my best to reconstruct the scenario...........

I was heading south on Morse, approaching the Caroline RAB. I entered the RAB at 6 in the outside lane and was heading to exit 12 to continue south on Morse. When I entered the RAB at 6, there were no cars in sight so I proceeded into the RAB. As I was about to pass the exit at 3 (as if to go to Winn Dixie), another car in the inside lane came SPEEDING past me and exited into the outside lane directly in front of me. No, there was no resident gate to deal with as he sped past me onto Stillwater Trail. He may heave been heading to Winn Dixie and needed to go grocery shopping in a hurry. All I know is my purse landed on the floor of the car because I had to jam on the brakes hard enough to avoid that collision.

I find it hard to believe a vehicle that was not in the RAB before you managed to pass you from the opposite side of the RAB. There is more distance that needs to be travelled in the inner circle than your vehicle travelling from 6 o'clock to 3. If I am wrong, the other vehicle must have been moving at excessive speed. If this is the case, the driver was a lunatic who possibly had a death wish.

If I am right, you did not yield. Clear to go in a RAB does not mean your lane only. Vehicles in the inner circle always have the right of way. You have to allow them to exit either by stopping before entering or leaving a gap. The reason? Cars in the inner circle must cross over the outside circle to exit. It is impossible for those in the inner circle not to do so.

My thoughts as well.
Hard to imagine a car going from out of view to the 3 O'Clock exit in the time it takes to go from the 6 O'Clock to the 3 O'Clock.

One important benefit of these repeating roundabout threads is learning that so many people out there don't know the rules, that it reminds us all to be very defensive.

I suppose the vehicle in the inner lane could be going VERY fast, or the car entering and going to 3 o'clock was going VERY slow.

But it sounds like it was actually there. Sometimes a quick glance is not enough.

or both.
it seems to me the car in the inner lane would have to travel almost 3 times the distance that the car in the outer lane travels, to get in front of the car in the outer lane.

if the car in the outer lane were going 15mph, the other car would be approaching, or exceeding 45mph. In the inner lane of a roundabout, that's pretty speedy.

There were no cars visible to me in either the inner or outer lane when I entered the RAB.The car that cut me off was speeding. That is how he caught up to me. He must have entered at 9 after I entered at 6. Yes, that is quite a bit of ground to cover but he did it by speeding.

Hard to imagine but that guy did it. He continued to speed when he exited the RAB on his way to Winn Dixie. Maybe there was a sale. LOL.