[Rocksnap]

A heads up to all who are looking for whole house, stage 1 and/or 2 electrical surge protection.
Stage 1 protection is the “ring” that the power company will place under the service meter. Leased or purchased by the home owner.
Stage 2 protection usually is installed on the electrical panel, connects at the first breaker position.
Stage 3 protection is used “at the point of use”. A power strip you would use to plug in a device, tv, computer, refrigerator.
Come to find out that NEW CONSTRUCTION building code requires Stage 1/2 surge protection be installed.
I found this out the hard way, after much research into surge protection for my new build in the Eastport area.
I had asked SECO to install the ring on the house meter when I started service. A contractor will do this at some time. It took about 3 weeks after we moved in, 6 weeks after I called to start new service.
I was going to install a Stage 2 device on my circuit breaker panel. Has an electrician out to do so.
He walked me around to my house electric meter, opened the cover to the big box BENEATH the meter to check.
Would you know there was a Stage 2 surge device already installed. A requirement of new construction code. Not sure if that is just my county, or Florida wide.
No need for the Ring. No need for the Stage 2 on the CB Panel in the garage. It was already installed! Saved $$$ on the cost of the Ring. Saved $$$ on the cost of installing a Stage 2 on the C/B panel. Lesson learned!

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by Rocksnap

No need for the Ring. No need for the Stage 2 on the CB Panel in the garage. It was already installed! Saved $$$ on the cost of the Ring. Saved $$$ on the cost of installing a Stage 2 on the C/B panel. Lesson learned!

It is important to understand that the rating on the SPD is important and that a blended approach to surge protection is useful.

First off, having something is very important, specially here in the Lightning capital of the world. Congratulations, you're there.

Second, having point of use surge protection is also useful even with a whole house SPD, hence surge strips for computers and other sensitive devices.

Finally The quality of the surge is important. The amount of joules it can handle and how fast it handles them do matter.

The meter based SPD tend to be fairly permissive, where as a high quality stage 2 in the panel might stop it.

I would research the devices you've got installed and see if they are good quality or "builder grade"(i.e. cheapo).

For the record, I own two homes here in TV, one has the Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA, on SECO, the other has the Duke provided meter based surge.

6 weeks or so ago, the home with the meter based SPD had a surge. It blew out 3 light kits in 3 brand new ceiling fans, the newish(3 YO) Hunter irrigation controller, my router and my cable modem. It also killed two power line ethernet devices(sends network over your electrical outlets) and one surveillance camera.

Both the router and cable modem were plugged into a UPS. Yeah, you know, that thing that's supposed to be the final protection? It didn't stop any of it. All in, it cost me around 2k to fix everything.

I guess my point is, you can't have enough.

There was a realtor in my 2nd home at the time(we're selling that one), she said the lights got brighter and then went out. It seems like a slow burn didn't trigger any of the protection.

[onfire]

Think about the electrical surge as an ocean wave, the Type 1/2 devices such as the SECO Surge Mitigator or Eaton Ultra will reduce the high intensity large wave but allow small ripples through unaffected, whereas a Type 3 point of use surge protector will soften the smaller ripples but have little effect on the larger waves (in fact it's likely to be damaged).

So you want a Type 1/2 device, and the Type 3 devices for full protection. These are only going to help with electrical line based spikes / surges coming into your house, so for some devices (router, cable) you may want to add coax or other protection.

[jrref]

While lighting is a something we have to live with here in Central Florida, there are things us as homeowners can to "manage" this risk. First, you can install a whole house surge protector which is installed at your circuit breaker panel. The Eaton Ultra or PSP Vortexx surge protectors do an excellent job as this Type-2 surge protection device. Since it's located at the circuit breaker panel, any rise in voltage from the power utility or any branch circuits in your home will be blocked or reduced so the rest of the Type-3 or what we call point-of-use protectors such as power strips, cubes, etc., can handle whatever surge remains. This is why surge protection is a "layered" system. Focusing on surge protection for several years here in the Villages, it's my opinion that every homeowner should make it a priority to install this Type-2 whole house surge protection device because it's not if but when this type of event can happen. The recent electrical code has changed so all the new home builds now have this type of surge protector installed. I know there will be people reading this that lived here for 10 years or more that never had this happen to them but with all the climate change occurring over the years, severe storms have increased this risk. If you still have cable TV, it's very common this induced surge can couple to your cable line as an entry to your home. If a lightning strike is close enough to your HVAC and or pool and spa equipment, the surge can couple directly to those entry points. Fortunately, you can install a surge protection device on your cable line entry point in your garage and at your HVAC and pool and spa disconnect boxes.

The installation of a whole house surge protector at the circuit breaker panel should be installed by an electrician since it's not a DIY project. You can use your own electrician or any of the electrical companies here in the Villages to have it installed but I want to point out that Lenhart Electric has been actively involved in the Villages Hurricane and other similar expo's and events and understand this need for surge protection. They have done significant research, in my opinion, to provide the best surge protection devices at an affordable cost. I understand they can install all the surge protection devices discussed and can package them depending on your needs to keep the cost low. So, for the homeowner who wants their cable and or HVAC and pool and spa equipment protected in addition to the whole house protector, they can do that for you. As with several of the major electrical companies serving the Villages if you mention Talk of the Villages, they will give you a discount.

Concerning the surge protection device installed by Seco at your electrical meter, this device is specifically designed to block or reduce power surges coming from the power utility. It is not designed to protect sensitive electronic devices as the Eaton Ultra or the PSP Vortexx is designed to do and it specifically states this in their warranty documentation. According to a Leviton study, power surges from the power utility occur approximately 20% of the time whereas power surges from everywhere else occur 80% of the time. So, I would recommend getting this device to cover all possible power surge events but I would install this after installing the Type-2 protection at the circuit breaker panel and updating all of your Type-3, point-of-use protectors such as power strips, etc..

The focus of this post is to present facts concerning surge protection and solutions so us as homeowners can make an informed decision about this risk. If you decide to manage this risk for your home reach out to your favorite electrician or call Lenhart Electric to provide a solution. In addition, another good surge protection resource is this web site All Products

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by Rocksnap

...
.
He walked me around to my house electric meter, opened the cover to the big box BENEATH the meter to check.
Would you know there was a Stage 2 surge device already installed. A requirement of new construction code. Not sure if that is just my county, or Florida wide.

No need for the Ring. No need for the Stage 2 on the CB Panel in the garage. It was already installed! Saved $$$ on the cost of the Ring. Saved $$$ on the cost of installing a Stage 2 on the C/B panel. Lesson learned!

Good info!

The Florida electrical code starting this year requires surge protection and an external disconnect device on new construction. You'll noticed the external meter boxes are much larger on new construction.

Do you recall what surge protection device they are using or what it looked like?

[villagetinker]

Originally Posted by Malsua

It is important to understand that the rating on the SPD is important and that a blended approach to surge protection is useful.

First off, having something is very important, specially here in the Lightning capital of the world. Congratulations, you're there.

Second, having point of use surge protection is also useful even with a whole house SPD, hence surge strips for computers and other sensitive devices.

Finally The quality of the surge is important. The amount of joules it can handle and how fast it handles them do matter.

The meter based SPD tend to be fairly permissive, where as a high quality stage 2 in the panel might stop it.

I would research the devices you've got installed and see if they are good quality or "builder grade"(i.e. cheapo).

For the record, I own two homes here in TV, one has the Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA, on SECO, the other has the Duke provided meter based surge.

6 weeks or so ago, the home with the meter based SPD had a surge. It blew out 3 light kits in 3 brand new ceiling fans, the newish(3 YO) Hunter irrigation controller, my router and my cable modem. It also killed two power line ethernet devices(sends network over your electrical outlets) and one surveillance camera.

Both the router and cable modem were plugged into a UPS. Yeah, you know, that thing that's supposed to be the final protection? It didn't stop any of it. All in, it cost me around 2k to fix everything.

I guess my point is, you can't have enough.

There was a realtor in my 2nd home at the time(we're selling that one), she said the lights got brighter and then went out. It seems like a slow burn didn't trigger any of the protection.

You are correct, the SURGE devices are specifically for surges 100's of volts microsecond rise times and very short duration. Since it was reported the "lights got bright" I suspect something happened on the utility side to cause a high (overvoltage) condition that lasted several seconds and the devices that failed could not withstand this condition. I do find it interesting that the UPS allowed the connected devices to fail. I would be interested in the brand as I have 2 protecting a multi thousand sew machine and the another for computer equipment.

[jrref]

Just for clarification, Type-1 Surge protectors are installed at the service entrance, directly connected without a circuit breaker. Type-2 surge protectors are installed at the circuit breaker panel with a circuit breaker. This is important because the surge protector is designed differently for each application. Typically, premium surge protectors such as the Eaton Ultra or the PSP Vortex should provide enough protection when installed at the circuit breaker panel. The Seco protector installed at the meter is specifically designed to block and or manage very large surges originating from the power utility which is why it's warranty does not cover any device in your home with an electronic chip installed. Having both gives you the layered protection that's recommended. Although the new electrical code requires Type-1/2 surge protection, we would need to know exactly what was installed in these new homes to determine if an additional Type-2 protector would be beneficial. If you PM me, I would be happy to stop by and see what they installed.

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by villagetinker

You are correct, the SURGE devices are specifically for surges 100's of volts microsecond rise times and very short duration. Since it was reported the "lights got bright" I suspect something happened on the utility side to cause a high (overvoltage) condition that lasted several seconds and the devices that failed could not withstand this condition. I do find it interesting that the UPS allowed the connected devices to fail. I would be interested in the brand as I have 2 protecting a multi thousand sew machine and the another for computer equipment.

There are two types of UPS, online and offline:

The main difference between online and offline UPS systems is that online UPS systems provide power without interruption during an outage, while offline UPS systems experience a break in power:

Online UPS
This system uses a "double conversion" method to convert incoming AC power to DC, which then charges the battery and powers the load. Because the inverter is already supplying power when there's an outage, there's no transfer time.

This system also provides a stable output and isolates the load from mains supply irregularities.

Offline UPS
This system, also known as a standby UPS, charges the batteries continuously and uses the inverter to power the load when there's a power failure.

There's usually a 2–10 millisecond break in power during an outage.

An overvoltage condition could pass through during switch over.

Online UPS systems are a good choice if you can't tolerate even a millisecond of downtime l.

They also offer better protection from surges, lightning, and electromagnetic noise than other UPS systems

[HiHoSteveO]

Originally Posted by Rocksnap

He walked me around to my house electric meter, opened the cover to the big box BENEATH the meter to check.
Would you know there was a Stage 2 surge device already installed. A requirement of new construction code. Not sure if that is just my county, or Florida wide.
No need for the Ring. No need for the Stage 2 on the CB Panel in the garage. It was already installed! Saved $$$ on the cost of the Ring. Saved $$$ on the cost of installing a Stage 2 on the C/B panel. Lesson learned!

Is there any sort of indication inside or out that tells you when the device has reached end of life? The types 1 and 2 that you speak of both have indicator lights. How is a homeowner to know if he's no longer protected?

[onfire]

The standard surge protector (at least on new homes in Moultrie Creek) is an Eaton BRNSURGE which has an 18kA surge current rating, the common aftermarket unit is an Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA which has a 72kA rating and the SECO device (a Meter-Treater M-Ti 400) is rated at 120kA (60kA per phase). Surge ratings are typically "one-time" meaning after that it will need to be replaced.

The discharge rating is 3kA, 10kA and 20kA respectively. They all have indicator lights to show if they are working or not, a spike/surge greater below the discharge rating should not cause permanent damage to the unit, but after repeated surges they degrade and will eventually fail.

Generally the larger the discharge / surge rating, the slower the reaction time and less clamping of smaller voltage spikes, that is why multiple stages of protection are necessary.

As an example, the SECO unit is good protection for your AC compressor and blower motor, but offers little protection for the capacitors or circuit board in your HVAC.

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by onfire

The standard surge protector (at least on new homes in Moultrie Creek) is an Eaton BRNSURGE which has an 18kA surge current rating, the common aftermarket unit is an Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA which has a 72kA rating and the SECO device (a Meter-Treater M-Ti 400) is rated at 120kA (60kA per phase). Surge ratings are typically "one-time" meaning after that it will need to be replaced.

The discharge rating is 3kA, 10kA and 20kA respectively. They all have indicator lights to show if they are working or not, a spike/surge greater below the discharge rating should not cause permanent damage to the unit, but after repeated surges they degrade and will eventually fail.

Generally the larger the discharge / surge rating, the slower the reaction time and less clamping of smaller voltage spikes, that is why multiple stages of protection are necessary.

As an example, the SECO unit is good protection for your AC compressor and blower motor, but offers little protection for the capacitors or circuit board in your HVAC.

Thanks for the info!

Adding the Eaton BRNSURGE is a relatively low cost device that installs with the circuit breakers.

Status can be viewed by opening the door on the breaker panel.

https://a.co/d/74P2a01

[Margefrog]

All this surge stuff is over my head. But, I did get the SECO surge protection, and I had a copper lightening rod thingy installed on my roof. Is that enough?

[Margefrog]

P.S. I don't know how to get replies. ������*♀️

[HORNET]

SECO is an outstanding Utility, be glad if you have SECO!

[Rocksnap]

Originally Posted by Malsua

It is important to understand that the rating on the SPD is important and that a blended approach to surge protection is useful.

First off, having something is very important, specially here in the Lightning capital of the world. Congratulations, you're there.

Second, having point of use surge protection is also useful even with a whole house SPD, hence surge strips for computers and other sensitive devices.

Finally The quality of the surge is important. The amount of joules it can handle and how fast it handles them do matter.

The meter based SPD tend to be fairly permissive, where as a high quality stage 2 in the panel might stop it.

I would research the devices you've got installed and see if they are good quality or "builder grade"(i.e. cheapo).

For the record, I own two homes here in TV, one has the Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA, on SECO, the other has the Duke provided meter based surge.

6 weeks or so ago, the home with the meter based SPD had a surge. It blew out 3 light kits in 3 brand new ceiling fans, the newish(3 YO) Hunter irrigation controller, my router and my cable modem. It also killed two power line ethernet devices(sends network over your electrical outlets) and one surveillance camera.

Both the router and cable modem were plugged into a UPS. Yeah, you know, that thing that's supposed to be the final protection? It didn't stop any of it. All in, it cost me around 2k to fix everything.

I guess my point is, you can't have enough.

There was a realtor in my 2nd home at the time(we're selling that one), she said the lights got brighter and then went out. It seems like a slow burn didn't trigger any of the protection.

All good info, I feel your pain. These are SURGE suppressors, not LIGHTENING STRIKE suppressors. I am not aware of any Stage 1 or 2 suppressor that will be effective against a lightening strike. I don’t think a Stage 1 & Stage 2 & point of use Stage 3 all combined will stop a lightening strike.
The whole point of my post, there is no need to double up on SURGE suppression devices. The NEW CONSTRUCTION here in TV apparently comes with a Stage 2 device, installed in the outside house meter box. My background is heave in high energy electrical systems, and the certified electrician that came to my new house did not recommend having the Seco ring installed with the stock surge protection already installed, by code, in the meter box. If anyone want to install a ring, by all means go for it.
Surge protection is designed to protect what naturally can come across the power grid. Lightening is not in that description.