The email your received may be incorrect. The stripe, painted or thermoplastic will be four inches wide. It would be placed two inches from the edge of the MMP. This will take up 6 inches on either side. If your are concerned, please review the engineering report. It gives a detailed placement of the stripe. Also, everyone please note there will be edge striping in areas where the path is divided.

I so hate to debate you Mleeja, because I agree with almost everything you post.


But I think that even if we were striped and lighted like midday, that we would still have about the same amount of accidents due to lack of driving skills, loss of vision, and ignoring good driving rules. Many people move here or visit here and have never driven a car and drive a golf cart. Many people drive with a snootfull. Many people have problems with uncontrolled anger and believe stop signs are just a suggestion. I have been stopped at a stop sign and have had another golf cart go around me. I will not mention the team insignia on his cart because I really made people mad the last time I did. BUT here's a hint. It is the state that has the most accidents.

I remember being astonished when I first moved here and read derision toward people who stopped at stop signs from someone who I really respected. I felt like an old stupid fart.

I simply do not drive my golf cart during the high season if I can help it. I drive it to play golf. period. And THAT of course is necessary.

side striping for safety

Graciegirl, bad drivers are everywhere. However, there seems to be more in FL than elsewhere for a reason. I will have to tip toe lightly here, but it may be due to advanced age. I went to college in Daytona Beach and had a motorcycle for the occasional fun ride. My primary transportation was a car but the enjoyment of riding A1A to St. Augustine on a sunny Sunday morning, with the sun rising and few on the road was something truly special.

I may have been 20 but I rode that bike “like a little old lady,” yet I still used up 8 of my 9 lives. I could be at a stop light, on the left side of the lane so I’m directly in front of the driver’s vision and they still hit you. They come out and say I didn’t see you. Really??? I’ve been sitting right in front of you for the last 2 mins in a big red gold wing size bike and you didn’t see me? Yes, that happens more often than you think. The only thing all these people had in common, age.

I just had a birthday (54) so I’m quickly on my way to being one of those people. I pray I have enough self-awareness to know when to sell the car but I doubt it. As the population of TV gets older, you’ll see more driving issues.

Some where over the rainbow! Why not just paint the GC paths with glow in the dark yellow! We would just follow the yellow brick road to Lala land. "somewhere over the rainbow way up high -- there's land that I heard of once in lullaby". :pray:

Apples and oranges! Will always be drivers of all types on our roads. Suggesting that we should not make safety improvements is a poor position to take.

What if the safety improvements have been deemd not neccessary based on engineering reports and accident data over the last few years??

You haven't actually read the report then. See my earlier post re its faulty data shortcomings. Also know that engineer expressed opposition prior to study, so then we paid him $6500 to conduct a study! Guess what they came up with.

Engineering reports and accident data that actually gets recorded via police/accident reports mean absolutely nothing compared to actual experience of cart drivers who relate their experiences here.

There are hundreds or even thousands of near-misses in which drivers come up to a sharp curve in the multi-modal path in the dark, and there is no illuminated marking on the shoulder of the path. One that comes to mind is (or was?) on northbound Buena Vista, approaching Stillwater. There are also some north of Spanish Springs, going toward and onto Camino Real multi-modal path.

These incidents of running off the road, or running off the side and hitting something not worthy of a police or insurance report ARE worth it to guard against it with safety lines on the shoulder of the paths. Accidentally running off the pavement can cause a rollover and/or ejection of driver/passenger.

Near misses because of darkness have happened to us and we are under 60 and we are not vision impaired, and we haven't been drunk since college decades ago.

I think the whole thing here on this board is too many "experts" by way of their self-designated "seniority". Just because you (non-specific you) have done something a long time (like ruling the roost here) doesn't make the opinion or proclamation more knowing than others who opine based on their own experiences.

....

As measured or documented by who, what?

:confused:

Could you please indicate where the report indicates that only summer data was used? I would like to read that. Thanks.

Side stripping of the golf cart path
 

///

I posted that my statement was here say email. Could care less about the engineering report....You missed the joke about the guy who can't ride in the cart without their knee hanging out. So whatever the inches it changes the path, your knee needs to be in your cart. ....................................So your reaction to my post, is you didn't get it.

Janet Tutt stated that data collected would be adjusted as the study would be conducted this summer. However, the only data used in this so called study was historical crash information obtained from the Villages Public Safety Department from the years 2011 through 2014.

See the following for the study/report from Kimley Horn ->

http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/P...20150706pa0201

What do we know:
there are reported accidents

there are so few reported accidents that making a change is unwarranted according to the engineering report

elected officials make the decision on striping

if agreed it becomes a RFP [line item]

if i understand it correctly the extra estimated cost amounts to less than a dollar per villager

What we don't know:
the number unreported accidents there are----not reporting an accident is not a crime

how many people will feel safe with the extra visibility of lines at night or during a storm

how many people for whatever reason use the golf cart as there only means of transportation

Yesterday I played in the men's tournament at Turtle Mound. A police car was hiding in the lot watching golf cart and parking lot car traffic. Everyone spread the word as best they could of their presence. I guess that's a more effective, more expensive solution.

In my opinion forget the stripes. Get those little speed bump reflectors and put them on each side and in the center. When you are driving a car and you hear and feel that little thump before a toll booth it's a wake up call if you are in a blinding rainstorm or a little bit sleepy.

Quite an impressive company and it isn't their first rodeo;

Kimley-Horn

Procter& Gamble is also an impressive company yet I am still upset about the incorrect picture on the packaging of their Gillette blades. I was hoping that Kimley-Horn would collect and analyze new data. However, I should not have expected much from a $6,500 study.

the Gillette story ->

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...tatoes-154631/

I find this comparison very hard to understand.


I don't understand what you want to happen here in The Villages.

aka Botts' Dots.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botts'_dots

this is a WASTE of money. Only been here 2 months, hope this doesn't keep happening, throwing money away, if you cant see the path, stay off it. We drove at night in pouring down rain and had no problem, drive slow and cautious and you wont have a problem. We are adults, lets use some sense here.

I don't understand the resistance to striping. public roads are striped for safety and traffic control, who is naive enough to NOT believe that MMPs are roads? why wouldn't you want that same level of safety? people want to flaunt a flawed study that was written to back up an engineering firms original recommendation. As soon as a cost was mentioned suddenly it was a bad idea, well just remember that your car has airbags and other safety equipment and yet the roads for them are still striped...your golf cart has none of those features yet you are against at least improving the roads?? I treasure the safety of my friends and family and value their safety enough to spend ONE LOUSY DOLLAR to enhance our MMPs, if that's not worth a buck to you then go 'have a nice day'.

It is STRIPING not stripping

Its also about adding improvements which make our drive easier and help us to relax while driving our golf carts. I understand that some people continue to point out that this is a want of people who could solve the problem by not driving at night. We are a golf cart community and anything that adds to our safety or makes us feel safer driving golf carts should be a priority.

Should we also stop providing chairs at evening town square events. They aren't a necessity, but they do make our life easier and more enjoyable. Should we take the stance that if people want to sit, they can bring their own chairs. How about if they can't carry a chair they should just stay home.

Just for the record, I would never suggest we eliminate chairs at the squares. Activities at the square should also be a priority of our community.

It's a fact that, entertainment and the ability get around town by golf cart, are two big reasons many of us moved to the Villages. It is also what sets us apart from other retirement communities. We don't need a study to verify this fact; the size of our great community proves it.

How did anybody who used the MMP North of 466 before they were improved....SURVIVE???

How did the subject of striping never come up the many years on the north of 466 section of the MMP? If there was ever an opportunity for mishap it was there.

After putting in the much improved MMP south of 466, the planners and engineers and the developer elected to spend big $$$ to improve the MMP north of 466.

I would remind some who continue to refer to the MMP as cart paths, hence the tendency to have the priority be what the cart drivers "think" would be an improvement. How much thought has gone into how the stripping may affect walkers, bikers, etc?

The easiest, least/no cost fix is to drive safely and defensively. There is more to driving a cart on the MMP than pedal to the metal and stop.

thank goodness

I SO wish OP or Admin would get in there and fix the spelling.

Yeah. We don't need to consider any projects that might improve safety for the safe, defensive driver.

we're talking about striping not stripping? well then never mind. if you are going to correct spelling here your work hasn't even started.

Ok, guys and girls, we might as well get over it and let the 3 stooges that started this in CDD 8 go ahead and finish it. The sides of the mmp's will have to be pressure washed before this happens and this will more than likely be done with reclaimed water, which is dirty water, to save money, . The sides with then be painted and in about a year or so, with the combination of the dirty surface and maintenance workers not having the time to take it slow when working around the new stripes, the stripes will look like s**t. The stripes will then have to be ground down to keep the paint from building up and making it unsafe (after all, this is about safety) and the process will start all over again.

Just remember "The CDD 3" when election time rolls around. People in America are getting tired of politicians who want to wastefully spend money and do things just because they can.

If we do something, let’s do it right. In my opinion, this low cost study was preformed to be able to say that we have looked at the issue. I am not accusing KImley-Horn of not doing more because we probably received what we paid them to do. We paid them very little and received very little in return.

their report -> http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/P...20150706pa0201

Questions that I can’t find any data, only guesses are as follows:

How many and what type of carts are in use in the Villages?

The percentage of carts being used at night and the age of those users.

A traffic count of cart use on the multi-modal trails to highlight areas of high use.

I could go on and on. How can we and our leaders make accurate judgements on how to do things in the Villages as a whole when we only look to our own personal experience which may or not be the norm? Too many questions are answered by personal assessments. I am sure that the Developers have collected reams of data on us to ensure that they are offering the correct products and the best prices to current and future villagers. Where is the data on golf carts and multi-modal trails in the Villages? Data analysis isn’t everything but it is a good starting point.

Pretty harsh for those who have trouble driving at night. As I've already posted, IMHO, it is not about YOU--I'm glad you have no trouble seeing the path. It is not about ME---I can drive a dark, unmarked country road at 75 mph. It is about what is best for the community as a WHOLE. As a whole, a community spends money on lots of things that do not benefit every single individual. I don't see why a group within the community should dictate use of a resource, such as the MMPs, to another group with somewhat lesser driving ability or visual acuity.
Do you play golf? I think if you cannot consistently break 80 from the black tees, you should stay off MY golf course. Stay home and watch the golf channel. You may argue the analogy does not hold, since the pro-striping group is asking everyone to pay for an accommodation that benefits a minority. But it does hold. I, me, myself, I am perfectly happy with only one set of black tees. Yet part of my greens fee pays to maintain 5 other sets of tees that I do not personally use. But those of us who golf are a part of the "golfing community" , and as such pay to enhance the course so that it is enjoyable to as many of the golfers as possible. What about those few golfers that walk the championship courses--why should they pay to maintain cart paths?
Like I said, I do not have a dog in this hunt. I only raise the issue to make a distinction between having a sense of community versus a sense of what benefits the individual.

I agree with your comments about sense of community. But there is always going to be a cutoff point financially, over spending money on a minority of community members. The numbers of people that drive carts at night are a fraction of those that drive during the day. And of those that drive at night, what percentage have trouble navigating the recreational trails? And most importantly, do we have a high accident rate attributable to poor night time visibility? I suspect not. I have not seen the engineering study, but I know of the engineering firm and it is a good one. If there is doubt about the results of the study, more accident data should be collected and the matter can be looked at in a few years down the road.

How many and what type of carts are in use in the Villages?

Each household has one or two carts. I think it safe to say there are 120,000 residents x 50% to 75% = 60 to 90,000 carts.
That why I think it's ludicrous to believe there are only a handful of accidents per year as the engineers reported.

The percentage of carts being used at night and the age of those users.

Suppose you found out that it was 10%, 20%, 80% were used at night----What difference would it make.
As far as age, just about 100% of the drivers are over the age of 55.


A traffic count of cart use on the multi-modal trails to highlight areas of high use.

I don't know how to do this, since no one is recording all the accidents but knowing where accidents occur most often would be helpful. If an ambulance is called is the accident recorded? Maybe someone knows.

Repeatedly bringing this same point up in this forum will accomplish nothing. You should direct your concerns to the CDD representatives, if you have not done so already.

I would encourage others to speak with their representatives about the need for collection of data on golf cart use in the Villages.

As I grow older, I sometimes do repeat myself and sometimes for good reason. Enough said today! :icon_wink:

I don't know how to do a poll but I think it's a great idea.

Wouldn't it be even more scientific to put the striping in a confined area and then poll the drivers at the end of the road at a poll booth?

You would swipe your ID like a credit card on a ATM kind of machine, so you couldn't vote twice at the poll booth. The question on the screen would read:

True or False

Does striping improve safety?

We could use a poll booth like that for all kinds of questions.

There are always financial constraints to be considered. The number stated in the thread, accurate or not, was $300,000 to install striping and $100,000 per year maintenance. Divide by about 50,000 homes and this is 50 cents/ month for 1 year and 17 cents/ month thereafter.

Now consider this:
Ever notice those little highway millage markers every 1/10 mile on interstates, US highways, and most state highways?
There are 46,876 miles of interstates, with signs in both directions every 1/10 mile, for a total of 937,520 of them
There are an additional 175,514 miles in the National Highway system= another 3,510,280 signs
There are 780,000 miles of state highways = another 15,600,000 signs
Total 20,047,800 of these little markers

According to the Illinois Dept of highways, it costs $125 to MANUFACTURE each of the signs and more to install them, so lets assume a low number 0f $300/sign. This makes a total cost for these signs, installed, of 6.014 BILLION dollars. God only knows the yearly maintenance cost.

According to the IRS, there are 243 million adult Americans, of which 122 million pay federal income tax (which in and of itself is a different problem). Just under 1/2 of the returns are joint filings, so let's assume 80 million distinct 1040's that actually pay tax. Dividing into the 6 billion cost = $75.18 per tax return over however many years it took to put these signs up.

So, as far as cost benefit goes, what would you rather have---striping for $3 or little signs for $75??? I'm sure the maintenance on these little signs is more than that of the striping as well

And now for the coup de gras: The stated purpose of these markers, according to the US Highway Dept, is "to aid tow truck operators in locating disabled vehicles"
Now, if a professional tow truck operator cannot see a disabled vehicle from far further away than 1/10 mile, he certainly cannot read those little signs. And despite what I already posted , HE should be the one to stay off our MMPs