Talk of The Villages Florida

Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Significant financial distress (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/significant-financial-distress-360297/)

Worldseries27 07-29-2025 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2449121)
overbilling is a "criminal operation"????

There have been posts that indicate a complete lack of understanding of the situation, but this one has taken over first place.

i agree. Too many hanging judges in the world. Mistakes are not crimes. If it can be saved, do so, if not, replace with better options. Let the courts decide the merits later. Patients need help not turmoil

bmcgowan13 07-29-2025 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2449122)
Equally ridiculous. I own stock in General Motors. As a part owner, if GM goes bankrupt, I should be forced to use my retirement funds to pay off their debts??? That idea would go over like a lead balloon.

But didn't you kind of already use your own retirement funds to pay off their debits? If you bought 100 shares of stock at $300--and the stock craters to $2 per share....They used $29,800 of *your* money to pay off their debts.

I understand publicly traded companies may be a bit different-stockholders enjoy the profits and suffer the losses. A private company the owner (be it one person or a family trust) enjoys *all* the profits.

If the Suleiman family (a private company) decides to experiment and go "outside the bubble" and they purchase land beyond Eastport--build (and finance) a new restaurant--and the restaurant goes bust because of their unlucky decision; should we still expect the family to make good on payments to builder, bank, suppliers, contractors, and employees?

Or can they just say "Sorry-soft opening. We are declaring bankruptcy for *that* restaurant." Our would we expect them to step up and do the right thing and use family money to pay off their debt?

It would be opportune to borrow money and keep just the profits but declare bankruptcy anytime you have losses.

I wish Vegas casinos operated like that...LOL

golfing eagles 07-29-2025 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmcgowan13 (Post 2449310)
But didn't you kind of already use your own retirement funds to pay off their debits? If you bought 100 shares of stock at $300--and the stock craters to $2 per share....They used $29,800 of *your* money to pay off their debts.

I understand publicly traded companies may be a bit different-stockholders enjoy the profits and suffer the losses. A private company the owner (be it one person or a family trust) enjoys *all* the profits.

If the Suleiman family (a private company) decides to experiment and go "outside the bubble" and they purchase land beyond Eastport--build (and finance) a new restaurant--and the restaurant goes bust because of their unlucky decision; should we still expect the family to make good on payments to builder, bank, suppliers, contractors, and employees?

Or can they just say "Sorry-soft opening. We are declaring bankruptcy for *that* restaurant." Our would we expect them to step up and do the right thing and use family money to pay off their debt?

It would be opportune to borrow money and keep just the profits but declare bankruptcy anytime you have losses.

I wish Vegas casinos operated like that...LOL

Totally depends on whether they started a separate corporation for their new restaurant. I am, however, at a loss to understand how putting up personal assets for a business venture is "doing the right thing". If it worked that way, no one would ever open a new restaurant or other business. Would you??????

BillyGrown 07-29-2025 06:06 AM

Audit
 
An independent audit of the corporation needs to be done and those receiving income through IRS filings need to be tagged for paying off the bills of this bankruptcy filing.

We know for sure Humana is doing an audit before spending their money and closing. They will identify the leaks and any misspent funds.

eeroger 07-29-2025 06:27 AM

Tvh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainger99 (Post 2449139)
This year's open enrollment period will be interesting. Do you want to sign up for a plan in which you really don't know what is happening to the doctors in the plan?

It would be nice if they had an open forum to explain what is going on and to reassure patients that TVH will be there in 2026. But I doubt they will start being open and transparent now.

What will happen to those who were grandfathered into TVH without signing up for an advantage plan. My husband was over 65 when TVH switched to the advantage plan, so he was allowed to stay in the system with std Medicare and Tricare.

Altavia 07-29-2025 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.R.I.T.S. (Post 2449298)
I’m not very bright but I could not navigate the medicare/insurance business with all the constant changes every year. I’m surprised there are not more instances like the VHC all over the country.

Given the complexity and ambiguities coding a patient, is it likely most any medical facility would have similar audit results under the same level of scrutiny?

oldtimes 07-29-2025 06:38 AM

All I know is that my doctor has already “retired “

Pat2015 07-29-2025 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROCKETMAN (Post 2449080)
The words used by the person in put in charge of villages health system. He said they need to borrow 24 million to sustain operations, which I assume to pay employees and leases on 10 buildings. By his comments the only way out of this situation is to be taken over by Humana, but I assume the bankruptcy judge would have to approve this. Still not clear on the overbilling. Does that mean Medicare was over billed but the money was never actually paid. Going back as long as it has, I would think they received some of that $350 billion.

They were overpaid that money based on claims that they submitted. It will be interesting to see if this was up coding, services not rendered, falsification of medical conditions for higher payments, etc. United Healthcare seems to be holding the sale which is definitely an issue. Not sure as to who is lending them $24 million dollars, as how can that be repaid? Also, are they even getting money from Medicare at this point given the huge overpayment; what’s going to happen when vendors who haven’t been paid stop servicing them; and what happens when they ultimately go through the $24 million? Is there a chance that the clinics will end up having to shutdown for some period of time?

Haggar 07-29-2025 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2449226)
There are no owners of a corporation. A corporation is a separate and distinct taxable entity. That is why people form a corporation in the first place. If you eliminate the corporate veil, no one would ever form a corporation.

Please explain why you say there are no owners of a corporation. Who are the shareholders if not the owners?

Rainger99 07-29-2025 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat2015 (Post 2449358)
Is there a chance that the clinics will end up having to shutdown for some period of time?

Great question.

It would be nice if the owner gave us some answers.

Haggar 07-29-2025 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhoward (Post 2449235)
Most privately held corporations are small businesses (less the 500 employees). There are some exceptions, Mars, Publix, and Cargill come to mind, but most are small. Often times the personal assets of the owners in those small companies are pledged against corporate debt.

In the case of Villages Health, its not even a corporation it an LLC. Now if you want to talk LLCs I think there is a argument to be made concerning assets of owners. There the owners are getting the benefit of liability protection, but without incurring the cost of double taxation, and with lower cost of administration. That seems like too good a deal.

There is no federal income tax return.

Single member LLC's can be disregarded for tax purposes and the income or the loss reported on their personal return. Multiple member LLC's are reported as either partnerships or corporations. If they have less than 100 members they can elect to taxes as a S Corp avoiding double taxation. Most large LLC's are taxed as C Corporations..

Most small business are able to avoid double taxation. Most large businesses don't.

There is no lower administrative cost because they are a LLC.

The concept of not being able to pierce the corporate veil is what protects investors and allows them to be able to invest in small businesses which may grow larger. Remove the corporate veil and you can say goodbye to many corporate startups and the economy

retiredguy123 07-29-2025 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggar (Post 2449360)
Please explain why you say there are no owners of a corporation. Who are the shareholders if not the owners?

It may be mostly semantics, but according to LegalZoom:

"A corporation is a legal entity that exists independently of its owners. This corporate structure protects shareholders from being held personally liable for business debts. Corporate status also means that the company can, on its own behalf, enter into and enforce contracts, buy and sell property and own assets, and make political contributions."

Joecooool 07-29-2025 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 2449294)
To make matters worse United Healthcare has filed an objections over the sale. They feel their contracture obligation should have put them first on the list to buy..plus they believe they are the largest creditor.

So yes it is time to look for alternative health care

Awesome. They are also charged with overcharging Medicare.

UnitedHealth Doctored Medicare Records, Overbilled U.S. By $1 Billion, Feds Claim - KFF Health News

kingofbeer 07-29-2025 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROCKETMAN (Post 2449080)
The words used by the person in put in charge of villages health system. He said they need to borrow 24 million to sustain operations, which I assume to pay employees and leases on 10 buildings. By his comments the only way out of this situation is to be taken over by Humana, but I assume the bankruptcy judge would have to approve this. Still not clear on the overbilling. Does that mean Medicare was over billed but the money was never actually paid. Going back as long as it has, I would think they received some of that $350 billion.

350 million. not billion!

Stu from NYC 07-29-2025 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altavia (Post 2449325)
Given the complexity and ambiguities coding a patient, is it likely most any medical facility would have similar audit results under the same level of scrutiny?

For a small sum can see that happening but when we are talking about hundreds of millions seems unlikely.


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