[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

No need to demonize anyone cgilcreast. But it is still important for "people who don't live in poverty" to stop saying "just get a better job." Not everyone has that opportunity. Not everyone can. Even if you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and sold widgets door to door until you scraped up enough money for your first widget store - that doesn't mean everyone can do that. Some people are just flat out not capable of it. Has nothing to do with laziness (though sure there are plenty of lazy people - including those who have inherited daddy's money and don't HAVE to work for a living).

And that's not even just retail. How much do you think the average produce-farm worker gets paid per hour? Do you think if they COULD do better, they probably would? If you think that's someone being lazy, I challenge you to try working for one some time. Spend 7 hours a day starting at 4 in the morning, hunched over on your knees pulling up cabbages.

Meanwhile, all those wealthier people get their services, and produce, and cereal, and underwear from - someone. Someone has to do all those low-paying jobs, because all those people who can afford to patronize those stores and companies, need someone to actually perform the tasks those people are paying for.

When you say "if you don't like a low paying job, get a better one" - well if everyone followed that advice, all of those places you spend your money at - will close. They would have no employees left to do all those things that customers need done.

So basically that kind of attitude is shooting yourself in the foot. You rely on low-paying low-skilled workers, whether you want to admit it or prefer to pretend it's not a HUGE part of your life.

The Villages is crawling through Central Florida at a pretty quick rate. And you're not seeing a whole lot of people moving to Central Florida in the hopes of getting a swanky gig at the local Target.

It is called the FREE MARKET.

[Carla B]

On the other hand, there are many self-employed workers here who are pushing the limits of what they charge or think they can charge due to the population explosion. The last time we hired a company to trim our shrubs two men worked four hours. They charged $400, or $50 per man per hour. They started out working for us more reasonably at a property outside of TV a few years ago and we, in a sense, introduced them to the bonanza of TV.

I called a carpet cleaner we had used several times and asked what the charge would be to steam clean the tile floors only, without having to treat the grout. He replied $400. If he spent four hours running his machine around, and it shouldn't take that long, that's $100 per hour.

I realize that these people have overhead, mainly their vehicles, cell phones and a few tools, but those jobs are unskilled labor. My husband balked at the thought that they are earning more per hour than he did as a highly-skilled self-employed individual in a dangerous job.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

No need to demonize anyone cgilcreast. But it is still important for "people who don't live in poverty" to stop saying "just get a better job." Not everyone has that opportunity. Not everyone can. Even if you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and sold widgets door to door until you scraped up enough money for your first widget store - that doesn't mean everyone can do that. Some people are just flat out not capable of it. Has nothing to do with laziness (though sure there are plenty of lazy people - including those who have inherited daddy's money and don't HAVE to work for a living).

And that's not even just retail. How much do you think the average produce-farm worker gets paid per hour? Do you think if they COULD do better, they probably would? If you think that's someone being lazy, I challenge you to try working for one some time. Spend 7 hours a day starting at 4 in the morning, hunched over on your knees pulling up cabbages.

Meanwhile, all those wealthier people get their services, and produce, and cereal, and underwear from - someone. Someone has to do all those low-paying jobs, because all those people who can afford to patronize those stores and companies, need someone to actually perform the tasks those people are paying for.

When you say "if you don't like a low paying job, get a better one" - well if everyone followed that advice, all of those places you spend your money at - will close. They would have no employees left to do all those things that customers need done.

So basically that kind of attitude is shooting yourself in the foot. You rely on low-paying low-skilled workers, whether you want to admit it or prefer to pretend it's not a HUGE part of your life.

The Villages is crawling through Central Florida at a pretty quick rate. And you're not seeing a whole lot of people moving to Central Florida in the hopes of getting a swanky gig at the local Target.

Most thinking people do not move here in hopes of securing a job, and most people do not retire and move unless they are secure financially. Most people continue to work as long as it is needed to save enough money and see a secure means not to go under. If a person moves to another area before retirement age, without a substantial cushion, and without selling their home first, without enough money in the bank, I question their reasoning and if they struggle, I am not surprised.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Most thinking people do not move here in hopes of securing a job, and most people do not retire and move unless they are secure financially. Most people continue to work as long as it is needed to save enough money and see a secure means not to go under. If a person moves to another area before retirement age, without a substantial cushion, and without selling their home first, without enough money in the bank, I question their reasoning and if they struggle, I am not surprised.

I'm not talking about people moving to the Villages. This thread has *nothing* to do with people moving to the Villages.

It has to do with people living in the counties, towns, neighborhoods that surround the Villages. It has to do with the EMPLOYEES of all those stores, shops, services, food products, that you buy from, or consume.

I'm talking about the "support workers," not the CEOs or lawyers. I'm talking about the part-time receptionist at the local car dealership. Or the cashier at the supermarket. The oil-change employee at the gas station. The people who wash your car at the car-wash. Most of those people aren't Villagers. They are locals who live in the area.

If you need more of those people to support the population in the Villages - if you need more locals - NON-Villagers - to do the jobs you need done, because there are more Villagers that need things done - where will those non-villagers come from, if the jobs available are low-earning jobs?

[John_W]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

I'm not talking about people moving to the Villages. This thread has *nothing* to do with people moving to the Villages...

Actually the OP's opening statement is about moving families here.

Originally Posted by thomp679

As TV grows, if you were still working, why would you move your family here for a job?...Stick your head in the sand and hope your gone before it impacts you, but this disparity will not just magically disappear.

As far as this topic, when Walmart worries about finding new people, they'll quit opening new stores. Until then, I'll stick my head in the sand and enjoy The Villages and all that it offers. Happy Retirement!! I think I'll go see Joker today at the $5 movies.

[billethkid]

How about we dial the calendar back about 20 or so years when TV population was 20,000 or less.

That timing would be before CR 466 was a 4 lane road....before Lake Sumter landing, Arnold Palmer CC, the Target and Kohls shopping centers, Home Depot and on and on and on.

Somehow as TV continued to grow significantly since then where did the thousands and thousands of new workers all come from? (Rhetorical question).

The above holds true for every sub metropolitan area that has grown and flourished during the current century!

And yes, those who work at serving by working at all these places have always earned less than the next economic group above them.

It seems in recent years with the advent of special interest groups getting undue attention that the issue of living wage and concern for the "poor" attempts to get to center stage.

I see politics as the main driver of the current 'Quest"!

In my humble opinion.

[seoulbrooks]

Just look at who owns the Orlando paper and what political party they push, then you will understand the reporting coming out concerning The Villages. Nuff said...

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by seoulbrooks

Just look at who owns the Orlando paper and what political party they push, then you will understand the reporting coming out concerning The Villages. Nuff said...

Bee-eye-en-gee-oh!!!

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

I'm not talking about people moving to the Villages. This thread has *nothing* to do with people moving to the Villages.

It has to do with people living in the counties, towns, neighborhoods that surround the Villages. It has to do with the EMPLOYEES of all those stores, shops, services, food products, that you buy from, or consume.

I'm talking about the "support workers," not the CEOs or lawyers. I'm talking about the part-time receptionist at the local car dealership. Or the cashier at the supermarket. The oil-change employee at the gas station. The people who wash your car at the car-wash. Most of those people aren't Villagers. They are locals who live in the area.

If you need more of those people to support the population in the Villages - if you need more locals - NON-Villagers - to do the jobs you need done, because there are more Villagers that need things done - where will those non-villagers come from, if the jobs available are low-earning jobs?

Jazuela,

I get it and for what it’s worth, I think TV is now “too big for its britches.” Various ratios are already out of sync.

But you are in debate here with what is mostly a narrow demographic whose perspective comes only from their own place and time in the big picture. Within that narrow perspective, there is a spectrum ranging from, “Such is Life” to “Let them eat cake.”

While I seem to be awash in a sea of old sayings this morning, I might as well throw in another one: “When you find yourself banging your head against a brick wall, it feels so good when you stop.”

Sincerely,
Boomer

[bilcon]

Great job concerning the critique of the Orlando article.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Jazuela,

I get it and for what it’s worth, I think TV is now “too big for its britches.” Various ratios are already out of sync.

But you are in debate here with what is mostly a narrow demographic whose perspective comes only from their own place and time in the big picture. Within that narrow perspective, there is a spectrum ranging from, “Such is Life” to “Let them eat cake.”

While I seem to be awash in a sea of old sayings this morning, I might as well throw in another one: “When you find yourself banging your head against a brick wall, it feels so good when you stop.”

Sincerely,
Boomer

Here is an old saying I like.
You cannot bring prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
You cannot further brotherhood of men by inciting class hatred.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by John_W

Actually the OP's opening statement is about moving families here.



As far as this topic, when Walmart worries about finding new people, they'll quit opening new stores. Until then, I'll stick my head in the sand and enjoy The Villages and all that it offers. Happy Retirement!! I think I'll go see Joker today at the $5 movies.

It isn't about families moving here - to the Villages. It is about drawing families to Sumter, Marion, and Lake counties, thus providing new blood to support the Villages via employees working in places that hire them.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by billethkid

How about we dial the calendar back about 20 or so years when TV population was 20,000 or less.

That timing would be before CR 466 was a 4 lane road....before Lake Sumter landing, Arnold Palmer CC, the Target and Kohls shopping centers, Home Depot and on and on and on.

Somehow as TV continued to grow significantly since then where did the thousands and thousands of new workers all come from? (Rhetorical question).

The above holds true for every sub metropolitan area that has grown and flourished during the current century!

And yes, those who work at serving by working at all these places have always earned less than the next economic group above them.

It seems in recent years with the advent of special interest groups getting undue attention that the issue of living wage and concern for the "poor" attempts to get to center stage.

I see politics as the main driver of the current 'Quest"!

In my humble opinion.

The question remains: where will these new employees and their families live, when the Villages is gobbling up all the real estate?

[Packer Fan]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

No need to demonize anyone cgilcreast. But it is still important for "people who don't live in poverty" to stop saying "just get a better job." Not everyone has that opportunity. Not everyone can. Even if you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and sold widgets door to door until you scraped up enough money for your first widget store - that doesn't mean everyone can do that. Some people are just flat out not capable of it. Has nothing to do with laziness (though sure there are plenty of lazy people - including those who have inherited daddy's money and don't HAVE to work for a living).

And that's not even just retail. How much do you think the average produce-farm worker gets paid per hour? Do you think if they COULD do better, they probably would? If you think that's someone being lazy, I challenge you to try working for one some time. Spend 7 hours a day starting at 4 in the morning, hunched over on your knees pulling up cabbages.

Meanwhile, all those wealthier people get their services, and produce, and cereal, and underwear from - someone. Someone has to do all those low-paying jobs, because all those people who can afford to patronize those stores and companies, need someone to actually perform the tasks those people are paying for.

When you say "if you don't like a low paying job, get a better one" - well if everyone followed that advice, all of those places you spend your money at - will close. They would have no employees left to do all those things that customers need done.

So basically that kind of attitude is shooting yourself in the foot. You rely on low-paying low-skilled workers, whether you want to admit it or prefer to pretend it's not a HUGE part of your life.

The Villages is crawling through Central Florida at a pretty quick rate. And you're not seeing a whole lot of people moving to Central Florida in the hopes of getting a swanky gig at the local Target.

I had to respond to this, as much as I was trying to just read this thread and laugh. A few notes:

1. I think many of us here, including myself, came from Poverty. I left home with $200 in my pocket in 1981 and now most would consider me rich (I have 2 homes in TV, both currently rentals until I move in a few years).

2. Since many of us came from poverty and are now not in poverty, we have the opinion you can get out of it if you want to. Let me say IT IS NOT EVEN THAT HARD! There are jobs going unfilled everywhere right now that pay great wages - maybe not around TV but around the country. If you have not noticed there is a help wanted banner in front of every business right now.

3. We have all seen that most are in poverty because of bad choices - they get pregnant at 19, before they are married. They do not get educated, they won't move to get a better life, they do drugs, they have 3 baby dadies for 3 kids, they don't show up for work. They don't learn english. they are lazy. You get the point.

4. Simple economics will fix this and is fixing it around the country. I saw a target DC with a sign saying they were paying $19 an hour for workers(in Wisconsin). Around TV, wages will increase to bring in workers, and we will all pay more. I know I am paying more for lawn service, house cleaners, and golf cart repair than 5-6 years ago, and this is also why rents go up every year. There was a post contrasting 20 years ago with today- the point being there are 10s of thousands of jobs now that were not here 20 years ago - they people came to fill them. BTW - I notice that a lot of the workers in the new build areas down south are driving $60,000 trucks - they are obviously making a nice wage.

The article is a hit piece on TV, plain and simple. Stupid Lies mostly. Most of us moved or are moving to TV because the stupid way things up north are run with high taxes and too much regulation, along with huge wealth transfers to those who won't work. Even with the Sumter county tax increase the area has a very low cost of living and low taxes. Yes, prices will rise, but they are everywhere. This crap about less than 2% inflation is bull, but that is for another post.

Packer Fan.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

Number 10 GI your post has literally nothing to do with the topic. The concern of this topic is the NEED for lower-paid workers in an area that doesn't really support lower-paid workers anymore. As the Villages expands, its population increases. A bigger population needs more restaurants, more gas stations, more grocery stores, more handymen, more clothing stores, etc. And as that need grows, so does the need for employees to work in all of those places. All of those places are minimum-wage or close to it.

Who do you suppose should fill these open positions? Where do you feel those people will come from? They won't be in your neighborhood - your neighborhood is mostly retired people who have no interest in working anywhere at all, and don't have to, and have already earned their retirement.

You'll need younger folks, high school and college students, 20-somethings, to fill these positions. What pool of workers will they come from, if the Villages occupies most of the liveable real estate?

In my northern home in the suburbs we have public transit. Someone living on the same main street that crosses my neighborhood, but one town away, has to take TWO buses just to get to the Burger King in my town. That's a 1.5 hour bus trip, one way, to get to a part time job with zero benefits.

Meanwhile in the greater Boston area, you can buy a T pass and be at work within 20 minutes for the same mileage as in my suburban home, after a 2-block walk to the T station.

The Villages doesn't have any public transportation at all. There's no public bus, or public shuttle, or public tram. There's no way to get from Ocala or Leesburg to the Spanish Springs Win Dixie if you don't have a car, or pay for an Uber/Lyft driver.

Proximity to work is really important if you are a young person trying to earn money for college, or trying to stay in college, or trying to start out your working life and needing something to pay the bills while you persue your career.

Sounds like to me that you are more worried about somebody serving you a cheap burger or getting your grass mowed. If there is a labor shortage the employers will have to increase the wages to attract employees. As mentioned in this or another thread about the new Wendy's restaurant being unable to open because they can't get employees. The owner is going to have to offer a wage that will entice other companies employees to come work for Wendy's. If you think this is a problem that only TV faces I have news for you, it is in every city in the country.
If you want a good wage you have to have marketable skills. Minimum to no skills gets you minimum wage. Flipping a hamburger requires no skill. My nephew is a mechanic, he makes $100K a year because he has a needed skill, shows up on time every day for work and is good at his job.