It is really very simple.
Some very savvy medical people from around the world have come up with guidelines that have been deemed to keep you and others around you safe(r).

Setting race, religion or what ever other distraction one wants to argue about aside.

Can you do what you used to do or would like to do before the order and comply? No? Then no matter who or what you are or where.......to keep yourself and those around you safe..DO NOT DO IT OR PARTICIPATE.

Factor out the religious, political, special interest bias....help yourself and others get through this.

Argue Later!

Fred,
As I've tried to make clear, I do not think the govenor should or can close churches. When I first saw the Tampa church open, disregarding the health and well being of their congregation, I thought it disgusting. Churches and church goers need to heed the call and stay home. BUT, and for all the posters who want to quote the Florida Constitution, and think that just because it or the US Constitution doesn't fit their morality, we don't have to abide by what's in it. I'm saying that just isn't so.
On the internet, some or most meanings of what people write can and most often is grossly misinterpreted. I'm in agreement with almost 100% of the sentiments in this thread. And maybe we can legally disregard the Constitution. Though I doubt seriously what is being called at Florida constitution can do that.
My saying close them if you wish is me throwing up my hands and saying "enough". Not interested in arguing about this, especially since I'm trying to agree with most.

I will not be surprised if/when a person attending a religious service dies due to catching the virus there, that institution or its representatives will be prosecuted for murder.

Not unless the Governor of Florida invokes a Closure order including church services. If the Governor would , in fact, include churches in his order, the path might be opened for civil suits against non compliant groups.

Sorry Fred, but you are not only so wrong, your view puts people at risk of getting ill and dying. By going to church with dozens or hundreds of others, not puts just your fellow worshippers at risk, it puts everyone at risk who subsequently comes into contact with them, and those who come into contact with those people, and so on. As a Christian, maybe one of the judgement day questions is, "Did you, in trying to honor Me by attending church during the coronavirus epidemic, cause others to get sick or die?" This is not about if loving God He will protect you, it is about science and contagious diseases.

It's people like you, with your "entitled" attitude, who are causing the continued spread of this virus and the deaths of many.

You don't appear to have any empathy or compassion for your fellow human beings Fred. That is sad. I hope if anyone knows who you really are they will stay away from you because they will probably catch the virus.

Shutting down churches is not a freeze ban or pause on freedom of religion. You can pray to your chosen deity at home, in your back yard, online at a streaming church service conducted by the pastor, who is in isolation at the church itself. You can go to a park bench and worship your chosen deity there. You can worship your chosen deity while in your car - stationary or driving.

There is nothing about a church that facilitates your ability - or inability - to worship your chosen deity. It's function is to provide a building for people to congregate and worship together.

It's the congregating part that's the problem, during an epidemic. Not the worshiping. Go, worship. You have my blessings. If your deity is anything like the traditional biblical christian god, then your deity already knows what you want, what you're thankful for, and that you are devoted to it.

If you need a congregation and a building with all the trappings in order to worship, I would sincerely suggest you look into the opportunity to worship a more understanding, generous, loving, and humane deity.

NO, sorry but my viewpoint puts no one at risk. I am not ordering people to go to church or do anything else to their potential peril; that is the call for the individual to make, not me. On the other hand, I am not clamoring for the STATE to quash all civil liberties and FORCE people to comply with what I feel they should do. I am not calling for people to "write to the governor and demand he close the churches", ad nauseum. People who are very afraid of the current situation can, as I suggested in another post, remain in lockdown until this passes, order in all of your meals, and you'll probably be safe from Corona. But let others, including myself, go about our business, perhaps, at our own peril, just as we do every day, Corona or not. That's our/my choice to make and I don't want you to make it for me (or call the governor and say, "did you see what Fred is doing"). :shocked:

Fred

REALLY … how so? Now I'm responsible for the "deaths of many". GET A GRIP; your fear is causing you to lose all perspective.

Entitled … I'm only shocked that you didn't call me a racist. I know you meant to use the term in the most pejorative sense but, analytically speaking, I do suppose that I feel entitled - to my Constitutional Rights.

And, to be frank, it's people such as yourself who can TRULY be counted among the clueless.

Fred

"Ad Nauseum" here. To all who care , please email the Governor's office and ask that he include churches in his "temporary" closure order.

governorRon.Desantis@eog.myflorida.com

Ahhh you got me there, Challenger, you da man! You got the last word

Churches must touch a nerve, huh?

Fred

Only fundamentalist charlatans . Pastors should "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil" Leading us into arrogant disregard for the health and safety of the community , does touch a nerve. and does not honor the admonition of Christ in the prayer that he allegedly gave his followers.

Thanks for asking

You are so misguided Fred. The Constitution be damned at this point. We all need to do our part for the greater good. Not just in our community, or our country, but the world. This pandemic will not "pass" while people like you chose to be selfish and not help stop the spread. Oh but wait, I forgot, it's about YOU and what YOU want. Who cares about anyone else.

Therein lies your misconception. Unless you are completely isolated from any human contact, your desire to continue your normal activities puts not only yourself (which is certainly your prerogative), but puts any person you have any contact with directly or indirectly at risk, which is definitely not your prerogative.

How do you not get that each of our individual actions can affect someone else in a negative way. Most who live here are in the older category that can be most susceptible to whatever is floating around. You do not have the right to thumb your nose at conventional wisdom and experience. Talk about nasty entitled Villager. Wow!

First, let me say that I am always amused by folks, such as yourself, who levy ad hominem attacks against others who disagree with their opinions. Likewise, attributing traits, such as selfish, to someone whom you never met or talked to is presumptuous, at the very least. Now, having stated the glaringly obvious, allow me to state the following:

If a spark was lit in the mind of someone who read something I have written over the last couple of days, then, it was not wasted time on my part. If you actually read everything I've posted over the last few days, without allowing your own narrow-mindedness and debilitating prejudices from overwhelming your ability to read for comprehension, you would see that nowhere did I demand anyone to do anything against his will or good common sense. You are the one who is consumed with fear, to the extent that your discernment is compromised. I am not on this forum to convince anyone to do or not do anything in particular. I have merely attempted, in good faith, to caution against casting aside Constitutional safeguards, while clamoring for government to tell you what to do or not to do; perhaps you should, however! As Benjamin Franklin so wisely cautioned us:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".

My cause was not to pontificate but to resurrect that wise admonition.

For anyone who may have been somehow convinced of that cause, I say GOOD. For anyone else who has remained intransigent toward that end, I say CARRY ON. I never try to convince steadfast believers about anything - life is too short. And, God willing I still will have one to live. I'm through with this thread. :spoken:

Fred

I know god hears our prayers. Do you believe he needs you to draw a crowd. Most likely if a minister is guided by God's hand he will go to the hospital not the church and give guidance in this time of need. God places professionals in place on the earth to help us. CDC says no social gathering. The minister should be preaching about that through a news letter to your home. Ministers and churches cannot heal you but can help other professionals that can. Has the church thought of giving money or time to making mask, or ventilators, or setting up space for hospital patients. I see beautiful churches all around me. Not a social event..........

If you think you have the "right" to put yourself and those around you at risk of illness and death by ignoring social distancing, do the rest of us have the "right" to know who you are, your church, and other members of your congregation so we can stay away from all of you?

We are not giving up our liberties to pursue "a little temporary safety", you idiot. We're talking about LIFE and DEATH here. You're the one who doesn't get it. No one cares about the Constitution right now except selfish minded people like you. You don't get the fact that it's people like you who have caused our "rights" to be taken away to begin with, because you won't stay home and help stop the spread so we can get things back to normal.

Fred is ok with endangering others, but he has the right to hide behind the anonymity these blogs provide. He has stated he can go about his business without concern for anyone else......he's not alone, there are others with the same ignorant and selfish attitudes on here....if we all observe social distancing and do what we can to encourage others Fred and the like will become a non-factor. He can pontificate, get on his soap box, spew his opinion....that is his right, but we have the ability to marginalize him. Do what's right.....then ignore Fred.