The "Stay Home Order"

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  #16  
Old 04-04-2020, 12:29 PM
ffresh ffresh is offline
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Originally Posted by Challenger View Post
And the Governor exempted Churches. Unfortunate Malfeasence

Email him and demand that he close churches

governorRon.Desantis@eog.myflorida.com

give you name and indicate that you live in TV.
You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion

Fred
  #17  
Old 04-04-2020, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ffresh View Post
You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion

Fred
I meant every word that I posted- Check with any of the Main line church groups. Catholic, Methodists, Presbyterian, Lutheran Episcopal , and you will find that their leaders have closed their churches while the Stay at Home orders are in force. Get on you knees , at home , or in your yard and pray to the God that serves you, I will defend that right to my death.

"None are so blind as those who WiLL not see"
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  #18  
Old 04-04-2020, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bagboy View Post
Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.
There is no constitutional violation if the governor closes churches temporarily. He would not be banning a religion or establishing a state religion. He is using his authority to stop groups of more than a certain number from gathering in order to stop the spread of the virus as much as possible.

There is a current situation in CA where parishioners of a church have an inordinate number of positive virus tests due to assembling for worship and bible study. Who knows how many friends and neighbors they may have infected.

There is another thread on TOTV that describes the loss of a relative and illness of a spouse and nephew due to contracting the virus perhaps from a shopping trip.

It is for the good of all of us to not gather in groups, maintain social distancing, and sanitize ourselves and our environment as much as possible.
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2020, 12:42 PM
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As I stated, I disagree with people gathering, but a politician can't disregard the Constitution. I'm as compassionate and caring as alot of people. I'm just not willing to throw our govenor under the bus for not doing what you ask of him, because he cant. And I will add, because I see it coming, we stay home, we protect ourselves and others, we do not have the right to endanger anyone with our actions.
He most certainly can
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2020, 12:44 PM
sdedes sdedes is offline
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I responded to Your request to close the churches. This is not MY reasoning, this is a Constitutional right that should it be modified as you say, the consequences will be a years if not decades long court battle. You are going off half cocked by changing this one thing to speeding, dui, reckless endangerment, etc. Totally off point. If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them.
Seriously? This is not just happening to this country (where we have a written constitution). It's happening to the whole WORLD! The Constitution should morally be modified in situations such as this pandemic. I really don't believe GOD will mind if I worship him at home for a while in order to save my fellow brothers and sisters lives!
  #21  
Old 04-04-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by junction29 View Post
People who go on about their constitutional rights are totally, but totally missing the point! 👿

These measures are not about YOU, they are to protect everyone and no one, rights or not, has the right to threaten the lives of their fellow citizens. 👿
Agreed
  #22  
Old 04-04-2020, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bagboy View Post
Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.
In case you have missed it, a majority of the Governors have already suspended a Constitutional Right . -- Lawful Assembly . They can and should in cases affecting the health and even the life of citizens . Death Toll this noon in US = 8000 and climbing.
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  #23  
Old 04-04-2020, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sdedes View Post
Seriously? This is not just happening to this country (where we have a written constitution). It's happening to the whole WORLD! The Constitution should morally be modified in situations such as this pandemic. I really don't believe GOD will mind if I worship him at home for a while in order to save my fellow brothers and sisters lives!
My understanding is that the Creator does not need a special building for anything in particular. It is people who take comfort from each other. The Creator is quite capable of helping you at home or anywhere else. Right now the only comfort you get from each other is that you can go in mass to the hospital.
  #24  
Old 04-04-2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ffresh View Post
You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion

Fred
You can be passionate about your viewpoint without calling people names! Yes, we need all need God right now, but I don't think he will ind if we worship him from HOME for a while.
  #25  
Old 04-04-2020, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ffresh View Post
You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion

Fred
Your God caused all this if you are a believer, so what the heck are you praying for now?
  #26  
Old 04-04-2020, 01:27 PM
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You can be passionate about your viewpoint without calling people names! Yes, we need all need God right now, but I don't think he will ind if we worship him from HOME for a while.
I really don't mind being called Atheist, Secular Humanist, or Agnostic. Puts me in the same boat with Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, Isaac Asimov, Johannes Brahms, and many millions more. The poster probably meant these terms to be pajorative digs , but I'm sure that his/her God will forgive .
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  #27  
Old 04-04-2020, 01:57 PM
Inexes@aol.com Inexes@aol.com is offline
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Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter View Post
Simple enough. Look at pictures of Florida beaches before orders were issued.
And therein, the problem.... if they were too stupid to stay home prior to the order..... they are most likely not going to obey the order....
  #28  
Old 04-04-2020, 02:01 PM
ffresh ffresh is offline
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Originally Posted by bagboy View Post
I responded to Your request to close the churches. This is not MY reasoning, this is a Constitutional right that should it be modified as you say, the consequences will be a years if not decades long court battle. You are going off half cocked by changing this one thing to speeding, dui, reckless endangerment, etc. Totally off point. If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them.
Bagboy, I agree with your sentiments, however, we part "ways" when you say, "If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them." Rather, IMO, … fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

Fred
  #29  
Old 04-04-2020, 02:02 PM
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“Your God caused all this....” there is a difference between what God causes, and what He allows. That is a teaching. The teaching also says God (I hope you will allow me this reference) is the source of all good. So evil cannot emanate from Him.
But perhaps you know something the rest of us don’t.
  #30  
Old 04-04-2020, 02:11 PM
ffresh ffresh is offline
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In case you have missed it, a majority of the Governors have already suspended a Constitutional Right . -- Lawful Assembly . They can and should in cases affecting the health and even the life of citizens . Death Toll this noon in US = 8000 and climbing.
NO, you're wrong … only when Marshal Law has been declared - last I heard, it hasn't. And, even then, most Constitutional scholars would argue that declaration to be unconstitutional! Most would argue that Constitutional Rights cannot be suspended - and I would agree most fervently! Even if all 50 governors and POTUS were in alignment with that action, it would not necessarily make it constitutional … whether you believe it keeps you safe or not.

Fred
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