[NotGolfer]

Most of the nay-sayers may not attend a "Night with the Developer" or even read The Daily Sun (if I can go by the comments on social media against the Morse family). Thank you Don for your information----it 'should' shed some light on how our community works. I agree with you about business, though we've never owned one. From what I've gathered there has been many years of a business plan in place---even when Mr. Swartz was still living. From what I see, they've done a great job! What I don't "get" is how folks come, buy a place "because they wanted the life-style" then complain about every.single.thing!! It's a NIMBY mentality. Moving from "there" to bring the "there" they were moving from to "here" just doesn't make sense! Keep us informed and updated, as you so aptly do Mr. Wiley!!

[Garywt]

We first started looking when Labelle was just being built and Pine Hiils and Pine Ridge was just dirt as far as you could see. We would drive by often and on every ride we would drive by the completed mail stations and pools all ready to go. There were golf courses being built in the area as well. Shopping was already in the area and a few places were under construction. Everything was ready to go when they started the first house in the area.

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

I'll find my spreadsheet and update it and run the numbers again to get some exact figures, but basically, the numbers/rations overall haven't varied much.

The championship courses need to be able to financially sustain themselves in any particular area - so there need to be enough bodies to pay greens fees. Sure people will travel to golf, but not many are traveling from north of 466 to golf south of the turnpike 3 days a week. On the other hand, I live north of 44 and golf at the 3 championship there.3 times a week

Same with the executives, need enough houses paying amenity fees to support the operation. Plenty of holes are coming south of turnpike (between 44 and turnpike, isn’t wide enough for many courses).

I would guess, if not now, in 12 months, the ratio of roofs to holes will be back to where its traditionally been

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

Plenty of holes are coming south of turnpike (between 44 and turnpike, isn’t wide enough for many courses).

The area between 44 and the turnpike is plenty wide for golf courses. It was clearly wide enough to build a championship course there.
They just didn’t put them in. The houses along the turnpike are too close to the turnpike. They could have put several executive courses right next to the turnpike as a buffer from 44 down to 470. Or they could have built executive courses instead of Richmond P&P and Mickylee P&P. An 18 hole P&P takes up almost as much space as a 9 hole executive if not more.

[FromDC]

Originally Posted by Laker14

.......

Don's collection of fly-overs will truly be (and already is) a treasure trove of Villages history.

Maybe there should be a Don Wiley Regional Rec Center to store and display this memorabilia.

[NoMo50]

I was wondering why some of the new Villages do not have neighborhood (adult) pools. In the recent past, when a new Village was started, (think Chitty Chatty, Bradford, Hawkins, St. Catherine, Citrus Grove), the first things built were the postal station and the adult pool. However, the two newest Villages, Newell and Lake Denham, do not have an adult pool. Why is that? They are certainly large Villages, with around 2,000 homes between them.

Recently, my wife and I went through a few new open houses in Newell (she just likes to do that!). At one of the open houses, I asked the Sales Associate why Newell did not have a neighborhood pool. She told me, "it has not been built yet." When I asked if a pool would be built in Newell, she said, "absolutely." I then pointed to the development map on the kitchen counter, and asked her, "where?"

Obviously, there are no plans for an adult pool in either Newell or Lake Denham. Misinformation like that alluded to by the salesperson could lead unsuspecting or uninformed buyers to expect something that will never come. But...the question remains: why are some Villages being developed without a neighborhood pool?

[Veracity]

Originally Posted by NoMo50

I was wondering why some of the new Villages do not have neighborhood (adult) pools. In the recent past, when a new Village was started, (think Chitty Chatty, Bradford, Hawkins, St. Catherine, Citrus Grove), the first things built were the postal station and the adult pool. However, the two newest Villages, Newell and Lake Denham, do not have an adult pool. Why is that? They are certainly large Villages, with around 2,000 homes between them.

Recently, my wife and I went through a few new open houses in Newell (she just likes to do that!). At one of the open houses, I asked the Sales Associate why Newell did not have a neighborhood pool. She told me, "it has not been built yet." When I asked if a pool would be built in Newell, she said, "absolutely." I then pointed to the development map on the kitchen counter, and asked her, "where?"

Obviously, there are no plans for an adult pool in either Newell or Lake Denham. Misinformation like that alluded to by the salesperson could lead unsuspecting or uninformed buyers to expect something that will never come. But...the question remains: why are some Villages being developed without a neighborhood pool?

This is not unique to some of the new villages. The Village of Osceola Hills at Soaring Eagle (located north of 44) does not have a neighborhood pool either.

[mkjelenbaas]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

“They used to build the amenities first”, I’ve seen this posted many times on this and other web sites, but is it true, or is it a perception, or is it misinformation? After lots of digging into this, looking at historical photos, and having watched closely the building of The Villages for the last nine years, I can say without a doubt that all three conclusions are in fact, correct.

Before I jump into this topic, we need to clear the air on what is an “Amenity” and what is not. An “Amenity” here in The Villages is a facility, building, or area that is built for the enjoyment of residents or that is provided to improve the quality of the experience of living here in The Villages. These would include pools, executive golf courses, recreation centers, postal stations, various sports courts, pitches, and fields, and the gates and gate houses. What is not an “Amenity” is just about everything else: businesses, grocery stores, restaurants, shopping areas, town squares, championship golf courses, medical facilities, and much much more.

Of all these non-Amenities, only the championship courses and the town squares are built before and during the construction of the surrounding homes. The rest only come after there is a sufficient population and customer base to ensure a profitable business. There I go again, using that word that has had many of my posts deleted from other web sites, profit, because I do not see evil in a business making a profit. It’s the only reason why people go into business, to make a profit. Many living in our little bubble have forgotten that it is and always has been “profit” that makes our world go around. “If you build it, they will come” is a great movie theme but a poor business plan destined for failure. Without an adequate customer base, a business fails, this is why Magnolia Plaza took so long to open.

Does the developer build the amenities before the homes? Some of them yes, and some of them as homes are being built. For example, the neighborhood pools, postal stations, and gate houses are being built before the first homes are started in an areas. Executive golf courses are also started early in the development of an area, they are however much more time intensive due to the growing cycle of the grass and sometimes are not quite ready to open when the homes start to become available. The village and regional recreation centers area also being built starting in advance of and then at the same time as the homes in an area. Recent examples of this are the Aviary, Homestead, and Ezell Rec Centers, Clifton Cove putting course. For the golf courses the Mickylee and Jubilee courses open shortly after occupancy started in Newell. Franklin Recreation Center is nearing completion and will be opening soon as the homes around it in Newell and Lake Denham start to become occupied. Down in Dabney, the pool and postal station are under construction, before any homes have been built. Surely, this readily disproves the myth that they no longer build the amenities first, the empirical data speaks for itself.

There is however a perception that in recent years amenities were not built first. To understand this perception, one needs to look at how building has progressed over the years here in The Villages. There is no better place for this than the main ballroom of the Rohan Rec Center. Rohan chronicles the growth and milestones of The Villages development over the years with lots of memorabilia, newspaper articles, and advertisement material that has been produced over the year in each of the room. In the main ballroom there are aerial shots of the community dating back to 1984 when the community was first started. Most of the photos not only show when the photo was taken but also the number of dwelling units (D.U.) I’ve included a link to copies of the pictures I took of most of these below – the files are big and very detailed, about 20Mb each, they were shot with a 33MP camera and have a resolution of 3944x7008 or over 3 times the total resolution of a 4K TV, so seeing the details is pretty easy when you blow them up.

Looking at these photos, in every case where homes are being built, there are amenities – golf courses and rec centers – under construction in addition to the homes. In looking at these pictures if one assumes an imaginary line where the newest homes for sale are on one side and the ones under construction on the other. If you were looking for a new home, you’d be looking on the completed side of the line and if you looked over your shoulder you would see completed amenities, that may only be a few months old, but behind you none the less. Those amenities were built before the home you are looking at was built. But just beyond our imaginary line, both homes and amenities are under construction.

Now come back and look at the area again in three months. Our line has advanced revealing new homes and perhaps some new amenities, and still again, newly completed amenities over your shoulder. And so, this line and perception of amenities before homes progressed for about 30 years. When I moved to the Village of Hillsborough nine years ago, Lake Deaton was under construction as was Dunedin and the Manatee Rec Center, but already completed was Big Cypress and Bradenton, both close by and built before my home was built. Over the next few years, I watched the line move forward and the Burnsed, Moyer, and Rohan Rec Center being built as new homes continued to be built, always with the same pattern that I mentioned above. Look carefully at the pictures and you’ll see this happening year after year in each successive picture.

Then something different happened in 2016, the Wildwood Springs development after sitting idly for nearly a decade decided it was time to move forward with building new homes and got the approvals from the city of Wildwood to move ahead. They moved ahead with a new partner to build their homes, The Villages. Wildwood Springs is no more, it is now known as the Villages of Fenney and DeSoto. By early 2017 homes were being built and the Fenney Rec Center was under construction to open in June, new homes previewed in February and March of 2017 in Fenney. Now the mold is broken, let the complaining begin. Things started anew and they had some catching up to do, and they did so quickly, and they re-established that imaginary line that continued to be pushed back with new homes and new amenities.

But with the advent of Fenney came new perceptions. First up was that they were building homes before the amenities. False. They were building as they always had with amenities and homes at the same time, the difference was that now, you had to drive through the construction areas to get to the new homes, something previously not done. The grand scale of the efforts that had gone on beyond the imaginary “Construction Zone, Do Not Enter” line for over two decades was now on full display. Kind of like doing a backstage tour of Disney, the magic is go afterwards. Next was that they were building too fast. Nope. They were and still are building at pretty much the same pace that they have for the last 20 years; once again, the cat was out of the bag, and everyone could finally see what was happening. Adding to their headaches was some clown flying a drone over the new areas giving everyone a bird's eye view of what was happening and posting it on the internet. Despite their many efforts to stop this flow of information, it continues to this day, but that’s all a story for a different post.

Had they not acquired the Wildwood Springs development in a ready to move forward condition, they would have probably moved forward with the work in the Cresswind development that they had acquired, and work would have moved forward as it always had with few seeing past the imaginary line to see what was coming from behind the curtain. You are probably asking yourself where the heck is Cresswind? We now know Cresswind as the villages of Richmond and St. Johns. Early Cresswind drawings even show a path crossing the turnpike at about the same location as the Water Lilly bridge. Remember in my last posting where I said that Brownwood was planned to be surrounded by its primary customers, here you have it, Cresswind. Things went a little out of order because of Wildwood Springs but they are back on track for the most part, moving south now from Newell and Monarch Grove the new lines are being drawn.

For the most part, things are as they always have been, amenities are being built with the homes and communities. A few perceptions of what is happening have changed and the typical wealth of misinformation continues to surface.

Some will say I’m Monday morning quarterbacking this topic, hardly so, I’ve been watching, tracking, and collecting data for the last nine years, and literally have thousands of documents, photos, and maps that I’ve collected over the years on what is happening and how they are building The Villages. It’s easy to see the puzzle pieces come together when you have some many in front of you.

One last thing, going back to the business being built. Take a look at the photos showing the early 2000’s and late 90’s. The huge commercial development on 466 west of Buena Vista didn’t exist even after homes were being built south of 466. Even as late as 2008, much of the building there was mainly the new District offices that they didn’t move out of until about 2015. There was not the plethora of business supporting the new homes in the area for the first few years. Much like things are South of 44 today.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.

Link to historical maps of The Villages
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ms9b1nsoy...XzpfnWm7a?dl=0

WOW - that’s a lot of typing!!!

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

The area between 44 and the turnpike is plenty wide for golf courses. It was clearly wide enough to build a championship course there.
They just didn’t put them in. The houses along the turnpike are too close to the turnpike. They could have put several executive courses right next to the turnpike as a buffer from 44 down to 470. Or they could have built executive courses instead of Richmond P&P and Mickylee P&P. An 18 hole P&P takes up almost as much space as a 9 hole executive if not more.

Pretend the Turnpike isn't there.

McNeil will be the main 4 lane thoroughfare south starting at Sawgrass, similar to Morse/Buena Vista.

Megason becomes a two lane 25 mph neighborhood connection south of Sawgrass.

So it makes more sense to develop the courses on the same side of the Turnpike as NcNeil, with all the other development.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by NoMo50

I was wondering why some of the new Villages do not have neighborhood (adult) pools. In the recent past, when a new Village was started, (think Chitty Chatty, Bradford, Hawkins, St. Catherine, Citrus Grove), the first things built were the postal station and the adult pool. However, the two newest Villages, Newell and Lake Denham, do not have an adult pool. Why is that? They are certainly large Villages, with around 2,000 homes between them.

Recently, my wife and I went through a few new open houses in Newell (she just likes to do that!). At one of the open houses, I asked the Sales Associate why Newell did not have a neighborhood pool. She told me, "it has not been built yet." When I asked if a pool would be built in Newell, she said, "absolutely." I then pointed to the development map on the kitchen counter, and asked her, "where?"

Obviously, there are no plans for an adult pool in either Newell or Lake Denham. Misinformation like that alluded to by the salesperson could lead unsuspecting or uninformed buyers to expect something that will never come. But...the question remains: why are some Villages being developed without a neighborhood pool?

Just a guess but with all the private pools being put in, even in areas that do have an adult pool, it may have been determined that there isn't enough demand to justify two pools in a neighborhood. I don't have a private pool so I wouldn't feel that way but there is some logic to it.

As for misinformation by the salesperson: This wouldn't be the first time and probably won't be the last.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by mkjelenbaas

wow - that’s a lot of typing!!!

[kayak]

In Georgia there was a big problem with amenities. A developer would develop a swim tennis community sell all the houses and then go out of business and never build the swim or the tennis.
The law was changed and now the amenities have to go in first before any house is sold.

When they told us on the trolley tour of The Villages that the amenities are built before the houses are sold I wondered if they do that voluntarily or if it's actually a requirement in Florida.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

The area between 44 and the turnpike is plenty wide for golf courses. It was clearly wide enough to build a championship course there.

Then, you'd complain that there were no Championship courses south of 44...

Yes, they fit in Southern Oaks. But they couldn't fit in Southern Oaks AND an exec course...

They just didn’t put them in. The houses along the turnpike are too close to the turnpike. They could have put several executive courses right next to the turnpike as a buffer from 44 down to 470. Or they could have built executive courses instead of Richmond P&P and Mickylee P&P. An 18 hole P&P takes up almost as much space as a 9 hole executive if not more.

Nothing could be further from the truth...

[HoosierPa]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

“They used to build the amenities first”, I’ve seen this posted many times on this and other web sites, but is it true, or is it a perception, or is it misinformation? After lots of digging into this, looking at historical photos, and having watched closely the building of The Villages for the last nine years, I can say without a doubt that all three conclusions are in fact, correct.

Before I jump into this topic, we need to clear the air on what is an “Amenity” and what is not. An “Amenity” here in The Villages is a facility, building, or area that is built for the enjoyment of residents or that is provided to improve the quality of the experience of living here in The Villages. These would include pools, executive golf courses, recreation centers, postal stations, various sports courts, pitches, and fields, and the gates and gate houses. What is not an “Amenity” is just about everything else: businesses, grocery stores, restaurants, shopping areas, town squares, championship golf courses, medical facilities, and much much more.

Of all these non-Amenities, only the championship courses and the town squares are built before and during the construction of the surrounding homes. The rest only come after there is a sufficient population and customer base to ensure a profitable business. There I go again, using that word that has had many of my posts deleted from other web sites, profit, because I do not see evil in a business making a profit. It’s the only reason why people go into business, to make a profit. Many living in our little bubble have forgotten that it is and always has been “profit” that makes our world go around. “If you build it, they will come” is a great movie theme but a poor business plan destined for failure. Without an adequate customer base, a business fails, this is why Magnolia Plaza took so long to open.

Does the developer build the amenities before the homes? Some of them yes, and some of them as homes are being built. For example, the neighborhood pools, postal stations, and gate houses are being built before the first homes are started in an areas. Executive golf courses are also started early in the development of an area, they are however much more time intensive due to the growing cycle of the grass and sometimes are not quite ready to open when the homes start to become available. The village and regional recreation centers area also being built starting in advance of and then at the same time as the homes in an area. Recent examples of this are the Aviary, Homestead, and Ezell Rec Centers, Clifton Cove putting course. For the golf courses the Mickylee and Jubilee courses open shortly after occupancy started in Newell. Franklin Recreation Center is nearing completion and will be opening soon as the homes around it in Newell and Lake Denham start to become occupied. Down in Dabney, the pool and postal station are under construction, before any homes have been built. Surely, this readily disproves the myth that they no longer build the amenities first, the empirical data speaks for itself.

There is however a perception that in recent years amenities were not built first. To understand this perception, one needs to look at how building has progressed over the years here in The Villages. There is no better place for this than the main ballroom of the Rohan Rec Center. Rohan chronicles the growth and milestones of The Villages development over the years with lots of memorabilia, newspaper articles, and advertisement material that has been produced over the year in each of the room. In the main ballroom there are aerial shots of the community dating back to 1984 when the community was first started. Most of the photos not only show when the photo was taken but also the number of dwelling units (D.U.) I’ve included a link to copies of the pictures I took of most of these below – the files are big and very detailed, about 20Mb each, they were shot with a 33MP camera and have a resolution of 3944x7008 or over 3 times the total resolution of a 4K TV, so seeing the details is pretty easy when you blow them up.

Looking at these photos, in every case where homes are being built, there are amenities – golf courses and rec centers – under construction in addition to the homes. In looking at these pictures if one assumes an imaginary line where the newest homes for sale are on one side and the ones under construction on the other. If you were looking for a new home, you’d be looking on the completed side of the line and if you looked over your shoulder you would see completed amenities, that may only be a few months old, but behind you none the less. Those amenities were built before the home you are looking at was built. But just beyond our imaginary line, both homes and amenities are under construction.

Now come back and look at the area again in three months. Our line has advanced revealing new homes and perhaps some new amenities, and still again, newly completed amenities over your shoulder. And so, this line and perception of amenities before homes progressed for about 30 years. When I moved to the Village of Hillsborough nine years ago, Lake Deaton was under construction as was Dunedin and the Manatee Rec Center, but already completed was Big Cypress and Bradenton, both close by and built before my home was built. Over the next few years, I watched the line move forward and the Burnsed, Moyer, and Rohan Rec Center being built as new homes continued to be built, always with the same pattern that I mentioned above. Look carefully at the pictures and you’ll see this happening year after year in each successive picture.

Then something different happened in 2016, the Wildwood Springs development after sitting idly for nearly a decade decided it was time to move forward with building new homes and got the approvals from the city of Wildwood to move ahead. They moved ahead with a new partner to build their homes, The Villages. Wildwood Springs is no more, it is now known as the Villages of Fenney and DeSoto. By early 2017 homes were being built and the Fenney Rec Center was under construction to open in June, new homes previewed in February and March of 2017 in Fenney. Now the mold is broken, let the complaining begin. Things started anew and they had some catching up to do, and they did so quickly, and they re-established that imaginary line that continued to be pushed back with new homes and new amenities.

But with the advent of Fenney came new perceptions. First up was that they were building homes before the amenities. False. They were building as they always had with amenities and homes at the same time, the difference was that now, you had to drive through the construction areas to get to the new homes, something previously not done. The grand scale of the efforts that had gone on beyond the imaginary “Construction Zone, Do Not Enter” line for over two decades was now on full display. Kind of like doing a backstage tour of Disney, the magic is go afterwards. Next was that they were building too fast. Nope. They were and still are building at pretty much the same pace that they have for the last 20 years; once again, the cat was out of the bag, and everyone could finally see what was happening. Adding to their headaches was some clown flying a drone over the new areas giving everyone a bird's eye view of what was happening and posting it on the internet. Despite their many efforts to stop this flow of information, it continues to this day, but that’s all a story for a different post.

Had they not acquired the Wildwood Springs development in a ready to move forward condition, they would have probably moved forward with the work in the Cresswind development that they had acquired, and work would have moved forward as it always had with few seeing past the imaginary line to see what was coming from behind the curtain. You are probably asking yourself where the heck is Cresswind? We now know Cresswind as the villages of Richmond and St. Johns. Early Cresswind drawings even show a path crossing the turnpike at about the same location as the Water Lilly bridge. Remember in my last posting where I said that Brownwood was planned to be surrounded by its primary customers, here you have it, Cresswind. Things went a little out of order because of Wildwood Springs but they are back on track for the most part, moving south now from Newell and Monarch Grove the new lines are being drawn.

For the most part, things are as they always have been, amenities are being built with the homes and communities. A few perceptions of what is happening have changed and the typical wealth of misinformation continues to surface.

Some will say I’m Monday morning quarterbacking this topic, hardly so, I’ve been watching, tracking, and collecting data for the last nine years, and literally have thousands of documents, photos, and maps that I’ve collected over the years on what is happening and how they are building The Villages. It’s easy to see the puzzle pieces come together when you have some many in front of you.

One last thing, going back to the business being built. Take a look at the photos showing the early 2000’s and late 90’s. The huge commercial development on 466 west of Buena Vista didn’t exist even after homes were being built south of 466. Even as late as 2008, much of the building there was mainly the new District offices that they didn’t move out of until about 2015. There was not the plethora of business supporting the new homes in the area for the first few years. Much like things are South of 44 today.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.

Link to historical maps of The Villages
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ms9b1nsoy...XzpfnWm7a?dl=0

I got a chuckle from you mentioning the importance of complying with the Sunshine Laws.
We don’t need any more of that drama!

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

An “Amenity” here in The Villages is a facility, building, or area that is built for the enjoyment of residents or that is provided to improve the quality of the experience of living here in The Villages. These would include pools, executive golf courses, recreation centers, postal stations, various sports courts, pitches, and fields, and the gates and gate houses.

I agree with most of your list but I am not sure if I would consider a postal station as an amenity. In my old house, they delivered the mail to my house - I didn't have to drive a mile to pick up my mail. Having to drive a mile to pick up my mail does not seem like an amenity. The only person that seems to benefit is the US Post Office - the mailman doesn't have to deliver the mail to people's houses.