[Ron G.]

I spent only a few hours looking at TV a few weeks ago and came away very impressed and excited about the physical set-up of the place, as well as the lifestyle.

I was put off by a couple things, though. When I asked our sales guy (who I liked, by the way) if there was room for negotiation in the price or terms, he said flatly, "it is what it is". (We were just looking at new construction.) No negotiation on price. No modifications to the houses. (I couldn't even choose to upgrade the carpet, which hadn't been installed yet.) If I was interested in a house, I had to put down a 20% deposit....immediately (or put $2,500 on my credit card to be soon followed up by the full 20% deposit.) Non-refundable. Period.

I read the thread about vinyl siding problems. I'm in the real estate business in Baltimore and I know that an improper installation of vinyl siding can create serious long-term problems. As someone mentioned, if they put the nails in too tight, the siding cannot flex with the outside temperatures and it buckles. I don't think a home inspector is gonna catch this. Even if he does, I don't think TV is gonna remedy it before settlement. They are gonna say, "we'll warranty it for a year". Problem is, the problems can become serious after a year.

Personally, I'm not real concerned about the siding issue, 'cause I was leaning toward stucco, anyway. More importantly, I was put off by the "take it or leave it" business model of TV. I understand that that makes their operation simpler (and more profitable). Making custom changes for individual customers is a pain (again, something I'm well aware of from my business). However, I was looking at $500,000 houses....that weren't even completed yet, and it's hard to accept that you can't choose to upgrade the carpet, select the granite counter-top color, etc.

I was looking at new construction 'cause our last several houses have been new construction. I came away thinking that TV new construction loses much of the benefit of most. My wife likes it because everything is brand new, but also that she has some say in at least the finishing touches.

I noticed TV because of the mega-bucks they're spending on national advertising. Cable tv, magazines, etc. I'm sure that it's driving quite a bit of traffic to your wonderful community. I gotta wonder, though, if TV is trying to operate as if the market hasn't slowed. I'm sure that in recent years they were selling as fast as they could build, but I suspect that has slowed dramatically.

As for us, I'm now thinking that if we buy in TV (which I would like to do), that it is far more likely that we'll buy resale. When we sell our house in Baltimore, we aren't gonna be able to dictate price and terms to our buyer. We're going to have to accept that it's a cooler market. Accordingly, when I buy a replacement house, I want to buy from someone who acknowledges that same reality. I'm not sure TV development does.

(Having said all this, I haven't looked at any TV resales. It may be that their new houses are, in fact, priced to reflect the current market and are very competitive compared to resales. I doubt it, though.)

Ron

[fraurauch]

We just talked to our real estate agent this week. She told us that TV is now willing to let the buyer have some options. She didn't say exactly what that meant or in what price range. We're not looking to buy, so we didn't pursue it. But if you are, you should ask.

[Barefoot]

Ron, re buying new versus buying a resale. I've also been in the real estate business for a long time (in Canada). My practice was to always put all costs on paper for my clients .. open book approach, nothing hidden ... so they would see the whole cost picture, including closing costs.

I checked out our options in TV carefully. One of the first things that struck me was that when looking at new houses or resale houses, our Village agent would never voluntarily mention the bond. Also, he did not want to detail closing costs. I found the agents will only give "list price" unless pressed. The bond and closing costs can add on huge amounts. Our agent would give me verbal, sporadic information, but never the whole cost picture; and never in writing! He actually informed us that the National Real Estate market has no bearing on TV since this is a very unique "niche" market. Yeah, right. We can all see that prices have been decreasing in TV.

Some resales are overpriced, it is true. But there are also some real bargains out there, and I found MLS agents were much more responsive to negotiation than VLS agents. I also found some resale neighbourhoods to be more appealing than new as residents had done lots of landscaping.

Good luck with your search, you'll love living in TV!

[JohnN]

We're looking to buy within a year and have visited once with a second trip planned soon enough.
My observations.

1- yeah, the lack of customization does bother me some , but.. I guess I can get past it
2- same on TV attitude on prices "it is what it is" though they sometimes discount homes
3- resales are almost always priced higher than new, which I don't really understand and wish someone could explain it other than the seller is trying to get back anything and everything
4- the lifestyle is what sells to us

[Frangyomory]

Resales might be higher than new if the Bond is already paid in full. While we bought at approximately $172k we would have to add to our sell price the over $10k Bond we paid off. So to a buyer, we would be selling at an "inflated" price.

Thinking back over the last two years we have lived here and LOVING my home and neighborhood, if I were to start all over with no history, I would likely buy a previously owned place.

You can negotiate the price if you believe carpet needs to be replaced or painting needs to be done. You will benefit from any upgrades done by the owner. You will know the facts about the Bond and other hidden costs about which you will NOT be told until you go to closing when they give you the 100 page booklet and tell you to read every line as it is IMPORTANT as a Villages home owner. I don't many who have read everything and only find out their obligations after something happens.

Buying from the Villages the closing costs are astronomical. We have talked to folks who had bought and sold several homes in other locations and even they were shocked at the cost of closing with the Villages.

When we were looking we were never told about resales and in fact, our sales person whoom we really liked, brushed aside my inquiry about resales. A separate group of sales people handle resales.

Yes, this is a niche market and MAYBE, just maybe, it doesn't suffer the same consequences as the national market, but new owners are coming from NON NICHE markets and are suffering the consequences.

The developer has a very cavalier attitude about almost everything that owners question. I have been there and done that. We even joined the VHA in the first month and all I got from them was lip service and the developers position on any question I had.

Just means that as a potential buyer of a wonderful lifestyle you must remember:
CAVEAT EMPTOR....from grade school. Let the buyer beware.

I love the Villages; love my home; love my neighborhood. The people who live near us are very much in the same stage of life that we are and have similar morales, etc. It is wonderful to have neighbors that you thoroughly enjoy being around. A largegroup of us actually get together once a month to celebrate birthdays falling in that month and the ladies have a once a month breakfast just to catch up on what we are doing.

You can buy a house anywhere but in the Villages you truly are buying a wonderful lifestyle for the rest of your life.

This is, of course, MHO. :bigthumbsup:

[JohnN]

Recent talks with my new (and very nice) Villages sales rep indicates closing costs are very low now (though they used to be high) and yes, one does have to acknowledge and know the bond cost. I still think resales are way overpriced, IMHO

For example, new CBS courtyard villa, $173K + 13K bond,
resales start in the 190's for those that are mostly not very attractive

I see the same across the board for other home styles

[gfmucci]

Originally Posted by JohnN

Recent talks with my new (and very nice) Villages sales rep indicates closing costs are very low now (though they used to be high) and yes, one does have to acknowledge and know the bond cost.* I still think resales are way overpriced, IMHO

For example, new CBS courtyard villa, $173K + 13K bond,
resales start in the 190's for those that are mostly not very attractive

I see the same across the board for other home styles

* My experience in TV when we visited for 4 days in late December, looking at courtyard villas in the $210,000 price range, was this:*

• New is a better buy than used, unless you come across the one in fifty desperation sale.* Most owner/sellers have not grasped the nature of the current real estate market yet.* The developer has.
• Those who claim that new house closing costs are "incredibly high" are basing their current opinion on old facts.* Closing costs are now fairly reasonable.
• Perhaps you need to seek a different sales person who does not put you off with the "take it or leave it" attitude.* While that is apparently the company policy (maybe loosening up a bit) you were obviously put off by the manner the sales rep. expressed it.* I found our sales person, John Stamper, to have a very mild and acceptable manner in this regard.

[Frangyomory]

Factually, the costs that are being reduced are for the higher priced homes. If you want a premier or designer, the developer will make you a great deal. They don't make deals on any of the Villas.

Don't speak for all of us in saying that we are "depending" on old facts. You don't have a clue what we are using for our comments. Speak for yourself and don't make accusations.

As for closing costs being fairly reasonable, what is reasonable to you might not be reasonable to me.

[billethkid]

If you are looking at homes in the $500,000 price range, be sure to consider the Premier homes TV has to offer. When we bought ours 3 years ago we chose everything including the color of the hinges! We also were able to move walls as well as add square footage, pools, summer kitchen's....almost anything your wallet could stand. Then early 2007 the demand was so high that TV went to building spec Premiers only....very, very well appointed, but still nothing like choosing your own. That did not go over very well for homes above $500,000 and some approaching a million.
I understand Premiers now once again allow choices and modifications.....I do not know that for a certainty...only what I have heard.
The best bang for the $$$ is to get the basics you want if allowed to choose and or make basic changes. Get the layout and square footage you desire. Do the upgrading adding pools , kitchens etc after you close. There are many very good contractors specializing in these upgrades and expansions and the net result will be a better product for less $$$.

Supply and demand dictate the sellers behavior whether it is TV or us as individuals. Some how a very large number of us seem to have survived the so called take it or leave it approach....getting what we chose...where we wanted to be...here in TV.
I would do it again. Nothings perfect.

As for the bond...it is very clearly stated up front what it is about and the different ways to pay it. Again a lot of us evaluated it and said...OK!! No matter where the retirement location is, if there is not a bond there is a significant monthly assessment. You want amenities, you must pay!

We looked at and lived in some very exclusive....TV is a good deal....for 98% of us that is!!!

BTK

[gfmucci]

I was not "accusing" anyone.* I was stating a set of facts.* Reading this and other threads about what closing costs were 2 or 3 or 4 years ago (old facts) compared to my analysis of closing costs one month ago (current facts) reveal a wide disparity, with the most recent closing costs being SUBSTANTIALLY less than they were before.* For example, in the past, the buyer had to pay several thousand dollars in impact fees as part of closing costs.* That is not the case as of December 23rd. I have more than "a clue."

[Frangyomory]

You are right Barb. For example, we added ceiling lights to the ceiling fans in each of our bedrooms and the living room. There were no lights in these rooms before. We added a water filtration system. We added an air purefier system as well. We also redid the ladscapiing to be much more suitable for our villa. We paid our bond off immediately.

Sometimes a preowned place will give you much more for your dollar.

Of course, we are frogs...here until we croak....so our family will be the ones to worry about selling. We are here for good!!!

[gfmucci]

* I agree, Fran.* It will be nice knowing our place will be "our final resting place," so to speak, so we can fix it up the way WE want it this time and not have to decorate it to satisfy some future generic buyer after we croak.* (I've watched way too much Home and Garden TV!)

However, there is "down side" to this from the resale buyers perspective. Since many retiree homeowners do have fewer inhibitions in their decorating tastes, there may be "too many" personal touches.* For the buyer of a resale, it costs money to undo some seller's unique decorator tastes :: that may be inconsistent with or even objectionable to the buyers'.

[lm01]

As a general rule I believe that the Villages new homes are a better bargain Looking at their several times a year closeout sales.

http://www.thevillages.com/specialof...ngs-200801.htm

It is hard to compete with a big corporate machine like the Villages. And, its hard to compete with everything being new.

Sorry but I say that about my current home also. Seems like I can't sell it for more than new or for new.

Seems like we need to wait for the upward swing in the market to get close to what we put into our homes

[JohnN]

lm01, you're exactly right.

I cannot and will not pay more for a resale than a new home (adjusting for upgrades, bonds and the wear/tear on the resale)

[Muncle]

There are several diverse issues being discussed here. First, the closing costs ~~ Assuming circumstances are similar, the closing costs today are virtually the same as a few years ago. The difference today is that the seller, the developer, is paying much of those costs as a purchase incentive. Recently, he was providing substantial credits for purchase of furniture from the company store and/or a golf cart from TV Golf Carts. Other times, a price reduction was used instead of the incentive.

Re making changes in a new home, it completely depends on the market. Before I moved in, they had the Street of Dreams where buyers virtually designed their own homes. Then they found they could not keep up with the buyers. In theory, they incorporated design ideas and upgrades and produced spec homes to meet the demand. When I bought in summer, '05, there were no options, it was definitely take it or leave it. And there was very, very little choice and almost no time to make a decision. You snoozed, you losed. :yikes: Now I understand not all homes are being built on spec, that some flexibility is available in some models. Market forces at work.

Re new v. resales, to many it is a matter of taste. Do you want to move into an established neighborhood with an existing social environment or do you want to be one of many newcomers starting a new neighborhood? Do you want to take a fairly blank slate and put in your own landscaping, interior paint decor, etc., etc., or do you want to take a completed home for which someone else has done the spade work? You've already got a mature landscape. There are fans and lights, garage door openers, washing machines in place. Somebody else has done the punch list and the 1 year warranty checks.