Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Unbelievable - AAC vote on Hacienda (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/unbelievable-aac-vote-hacienda-310014/)

graciegirl 08-13-2020 08:21 AM
https://esarch.com/content/uploads/f...villages01.jpg

Here is a picture of the much larger Freedom Pointe as seen from The Golf Course.

The Assisted Living Facilities are built adjacent to area homes on 466 and 466A.

Jayhawk 08-13-2020 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1816730)
Those tax incentives create businesses that area residents can enjoy in the long run. Increased population and strain on the amenities without financial support enhances no ones life.
Actually most TIF financing pays for infrastructure and tax abatement "hoping" to create businesses and services to support the general area or town. In a successful project, it pays back greatly.

Nothing in The Villages proposal mentions property tax abatement, so there is city and county revenue that DOES support the residents.

Too many are jumping to conclusions without facts.

Aces4 08-13-2020 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 1816738)
Actually most TIF financing pays for infrastructure and tax abatement "hoping" to create businesses and services to support the general area or town. In a successful project, it pays back greatly.

Nothing in The Villages proposal mentions property tax abatement, so there is city and county revenue that DOES support the residents.

Too many are jumping to conclusions without facts.
All of this really has nothing to do with with that analogy, the issue is overcrowded amenities created by the apartments for which amenity fees are paid and pocketed by the developers. Simple resolution would be to have apartment dwellers pay amenity fees to the AAC, easy peasy.

Villagesgal 08-13-2020 08:33 AM
I really don't see a problem here. Villagers will be able to use the pool, which will be beautiful, only priority members could use the old one; apartment residents will pay amenity fees, just like the rest of us, but will probably be older and not use most, and even if they do, they pay for them so they should have the same right to use them. There will be a new restaurant for all to enjoy. Before someone says I must be new here and don't know what I'm talking about, I retired at 45 and have been living here for 20 years. This place has grown from 28,000 with no shopping and limited dining to 120,000 and everything you could ever need right here now. The Developer has done wonderful things; beautiful amenities, beautiful downtown areas, plenty of restaurants and shopping, a hospital that thank God they sold to people who actually know how to run one. My point is, yes there are growing pains, yes they will make mistakes, but overall anything they do, they do beautifully which means we live in a beautiful place and our home values continue to go up. Sure, we could use more pools north of 466, but overall, they've done well. You can't please everyone, but they do please the majority which you can see by who makes negative comments here - the same small group over and over again. No place is perfect for everyone, but this place continues to grow because it is perfect for so many to enjoy their
hard earned retirement.

merrymini 08-13-2020 08:36 AM
New commissioners
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1816488)
Hopefully next week that will not be the case in Sumter county.

Than again what would stop them from buying any new commissioners?
Your vote

Jayhawk 08-13-2020 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1816743)
All of this really has nothing to do with with that analogy, the issue is overcrowded amenities created by the apartments for which amenity fees are paid and pocketed by the developers. Simple resolution would be to have apartment dwellers pay amenity fees to the AAC, easy peasy.
I get it. You don't understand the concept of concessions in order to get an expensive project to completion. Not your fault.

In one breath you say your concern is "overcrowded amenities created by the apartments" and in the very same statement you claim the "Simple resolution would be to have apartment dwellers pay amenity fees to the AAC, easy peasy." Surely you can see the falacy of your argument.

Maybe you just want to vent and not really just about this issue, since your positions are in total conflict with each other.

ProfessorDave 08-13-2020 08:46 AM
The Developer clearly plays HARDBALL. And - that doesn't fit culturally with what The Villages was as a perception.
Question: how many of you - were told by The Villages real estate person - that their was only enough land for X amount of houses left, so that when that is completed - the property values will rise. A lie.
Why I ask? Hardball - would be a "class action suit" - because the agents I believe used that story over and over for years. Regardless if the community won the suit or not - it would hurt the developer on expansion - and maybe he'd think twice before his making decisions that absolutely change the dream we bought into. No mistake. I still love it here - and with the flaws - still love it. BUT, I don't like the trend - and don't know how Mr. Morse sleeps at night. I've worked directly for two billionaires in my life; Morse may have money to support his ego - but - he is not a decent man.

Aces4 08-13-2020 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 1816749)
I get it. You don't understand the concept of concessions in order to get an expensive project to completion. Not your fault.

In one breath you say your concern is "overcrowded amenities created by the apartments" and in the very same statement you claim the "Simple resolution would be to have apartment dwellers pay amenity fees to the AAC, easy peasy." Surely you can see the falacy of your argument.

Maybe you just want to vent and not really just about this issue, since your positions are in total conflict ywith each other.

And you don’t believe the AAC couldn’t make improvements and upgrades with those fees being pocketed by the developers?

I prefer to stick with the facts and not personal suppositions.

Aces4 08-13-2020 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharrisoncmo@gmail.com (Post 1816756)
The Developer clearly plays HARDBALL. And - that doesn't fit culturally with what The Villages was as a perception.
Question: how many of you - were told by The Villages real estate person - that their was only enough land for X amount of houses left, so that when that is completed - the property values will rise. A lie.
Why I ask? Hardball - would be a "class action suit" - because the agents I believe used that story over and over for years. Regardless if the community won the suit or not - it would hurt the developer on expansion - and maybe he'd think twice before his making decisions that absolutely change the dream we bought into. No mistake. I still love it here - and with the flaws - still love it. BUT, I don't like the trend - and don't know how Mr. Morse sleeps at night. I've worked directly for two billionaires in my life; Morse may have money to support his ego - but - he is not a decent man.
Just to clarify, there are three developers at his point, not only Mark Morse.

charlieo1126@gmail.com 08-13-2020 09:06 AM
Oh my the sky is falling, possibly 300 people using amenities, I wonder how many will take full use and do we forget the many months when it’s slow here? I’ll be 82 in December, I’ve bought 5 new homes here and I’m very athletic, but I’m happy the family is giving us more options to stay in villages , for many and maybE even myself it’s cheaper then independent living and for many less lonely then maybe an empty home. As far as the family making money I can’t help but laugh at so many who complain about socialism, but complain that all the family thinks about is making money

charlieo1126@gmail.com 08-13-2020 09:10 AM
Looks to me
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonGee (Post 1816640)
If I wanted to see a 2 or 3 story building in the quite residential area I could have stayed in NYC
like a very busy street with no houses around it

seoulbrooks 08-13-2020 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 1816425)
The Villages is not a town. It is a business development that sits inside several towns and counties. The developer is the only one who made a business investment in this entity. I'd even bet a majority of the people bitching about it never ONCE went to the old dump they just leveled. For too many, it's just something else to kill time complaining about.
Spot on. Thanks for a real life comment.

Jayhawk 08-13-2020 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1816763)
And you don’t believe the AAC couldn’t make improvements and upgrades with those fees being pocketed by the developers?

I prefer to stick with the facts and not personal suppositions.
Has nothing to do with over-crowding, which is what YOU said was your concern.

graciegirl 08-13-2020 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1816762)
I was considering they could buy new commissioners like they bought the old ones.
HEY. To posters who are relatively new here. Many of us are very happy with the incumbent commissioners. I have NO problem with the commissioners working well with the developer. The amenities fees paid go for all amenities. We all pay them. We all get the amenities. They don't "go" to the developer. Horse Manure. I like a big business run well.

Be very wary of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Aces4 08-13-2020 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 1816780)
Has nothing to do with over-crowding, which is what YOU said was your concern.
YOU need to read carefully, overcrowding of amenities... With the extra change the developer will be socking away, much could be done for the amenities. That money will be missing.

The younger crowd may have the most angst. The older crowd doesn’t want the younger crowd looking around and thinking, no way, I’ll pass on The Villages or I’m out of here. They want home values stable for their estate so they will poo-poo any angst.

As I stated earlier, people should do what makes them happy. The decision is theirs, this is only a discussion.:ho:

charlieo1126@gmail.com 08-13-2020 09:48 AM
In regards to being told that there would be a stop in growth of villages, I’ve bought 5 homes starting in Springdale and ending in Fenney never once was I told they were finished building and each stop my home went up in value

Aces4 08-13-2020 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1816797)
HEY. To posters who are relatively new here. Many of us are very happy with the incumbent commissioners. My opinion is that the ones running for office are heavily favored by the POA. I don't like the POA and I don't like the ones running for office. I have NO problem with the commissioners working well with the developer. The amenities fees paid go for all amenities. We all pay them. We all get the amenities. They don't "go" to the developer. Horse Manure. I like a big business run well.

Be very wary of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Suggest reading the meeting conversation. The amenity fees will be paid to the developers, period.

I think you’re talking about adults in that bath water, not a baby. :icon_wink:

Jayhawk 08-13-2020 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1816803)
Suggest reading the meeting conversation. The amenity fees will be paid to the developers, period.
Who do you think is going to make the INVESTMENT that pays for building these same amenities that YOU and I will have access to?

Get over hating (or more likely jealousy of) the developers.

Aces4 08-13-2020 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 1816810)
Who do you think is going to make the INVESTMENT that pays for building these same amenities that YOU and I will have access to?

Get over hating (or more likely jealousy of) the developers.
That’s funny, you are aware the developers aren’t broke, aren’t you. This is a discussion of plans for the removal of amenities in an area where more people will be housed with fees not shared with residents of that AAC.

I don’t waste my time being “jealous or hating the developers”. I wish them well as I do my children but that doesn’t mean I don’t have opinions as to what they do.

I must say though, you’re working diligently to make this personal, not interested.

LuvtheVillages 08-13-2020 10:26 AM
Similar to the Brownwood Lofts, these apartment amenities will be open to all Villagers.

I have seen the video about the Brownwood Lofts' amenities. They are beautiful. A dog park. Resort style pool. Service kitchen with serving bar. Large social room with comfy chairs and large screen TV's. Perfect for a party or for watching sports events.

I think all Villagers should personally check out the Loft's amenities and use them frequently. There is plenty of parking for your golf carts.

And after its built, let's all use the new apartment's amenities frequently also. This will take some of the crowding away from our current facilities. And if the apartment dwellers get crowded out, they have other places they can use.

Two Bills 08-13-2020 10:40 AM
Have you noticed that as you get older, you look at the guarantees on goods, and think, "$£**&!! things will last longer than me, I'm not paying for that!"
Just thought I would throw that in during interound:boxing2: breaks!

CWGUY 08-13-2020 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1816811)
That’s funny, you are aware the developers aren’t broke, aren’t you. This is a discussion of plans for the removal of amenities in an area where more people will be housed with fees not shared with residents of that AAC.

I don’t waste my time being “jealous or hating the developers”. I wish them well as I do my children but that doesn’t mean I don’t have opinions as to what they do.

I must say though, you’re working diligently to make this personal, not interested.
:confused: Isn't this actually a discussion on adding amenities? :oops:

Topspinmo 08-13-2020 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvtheVillages (Post 1816822)
Similar to the Brownwood Lofts, these apartment amenities will be open to all Villagers.

I have seen the video about the Brownwood Lofts' amenities. They are beautiful. A dog park. Resort style pool. Service kitchen with serving bar. Large social room with comfy chairs and large screen TV's. Perfect for a party or for watching sports events.

I think all Villagers should personally check out the Loft's amenities and use them frequently. There is plenty of parking for your golf carts.

And after its built, let's all use the new apartment's amenities frequently also. This will take some of the crowding away from our current facilities. And if the apartment dwellers get crowded out, they have other places they can use.
Brownwood lofts amenities are not open to outsider villagers, but apartments dwellers have full access to district amenities. So, unless you are resident of the Brownwood lofts only ones using their amenities. But, if it’s like district amenities nobody watching to pot boiling anyway.

Topspinmo 08-13-2020 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWGUY (Post 1816847)
:confused: Isn't this actually a discussion on adding amenities? :oops:
No it’s adding apartments

Aces4 08-13-2020 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWGUY (Post 1816847)
:confused: Isn't this actually a discussion on adding amenities? :oops:

I believe, CW, that amenities were removed when Hacienda was torn down such as tennis courts, swimming pool and I don’t know of others. Those amenities removed, even if they required membership, leaves less for area residents to utilize and thus, more use of amenities that remain.

graciegirl 08-13-2020 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1816859)
I believe, CW, that amenities were removed when Hacienda was torn down such as tennis courts, swimming pool and I don’t know of others. Those amenities removed, even if they required membership, leaves less for area residents to utilize and thus, more use of amenities that remain.
Are you familiar with just how the AAC was formed? The AAC is made up of districts 1-4.

No one can openly discuss the "lawsuit". But many of us have views. My opinion is that the area got "control" of that area as a result of winning a lawsuit against the Developer.

I always think of that area sort of running it's own railroad since then. Keeping it's dollars separate, making it's own decision about how the roadways are maintained etc. Maybe I am wrong to connect the area with the POA but for a long time the governing folks lived in that area. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I am not a HUGE fan of the VHA either. So many times you see people wanting to run things that have not much experience in running things.

Marathon Man 08-13-2020 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1816858)
I’ve
I believe, CW, that amenities were removed when Havienda was torn down such as tennis courts, swimming pool and I don’t know of others. Those amenities removed, even if they required membership, leaves less for area residents to utilize and thus, more use of amenities that are left.
The championship courses, clubs, restaurants and pools are privately owned businesses. They are not amenities.

Smalley 08-13-2020 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 1816438)
The AAC by default voted on building the apartments, because without amenity privileges it would be very difficult to rent out the apartments so they would most likely not have been built. That is why the developer threatened (or should I say bullied) the AAC members into approving the apartments, or they would build something even less desirable.
If they are well built and well designed, I would favor apartments (or condos) over a parking lot or a big box store. They would be useful for residents who are too old to maintain a house.

graciegirl 08-13-2020 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1816811)
That’s funny, you are aware the developers aren’t broke, aren’t you. This is a discussion of plans for the removal of amenities in an area where more people will be housed with fees not shared with residents of that AAC.

I don’t waste my time being “jealous or hating the developers”. I wish them well as I do my children but that doesn’t mean I don’t have opinions as to what they do.

I must say though, you’re working diligently to make this personal, not interested.

We have lived in 11 different home in three states in our lifetime. This is the best run area of them all. Because of the deed restrictions and the maintenance by the developers this area is absolutely beautiful and well run. I don't know these people, but I would love to shake their hand some day and thank them. I feel as safe as I did as a child walking around this wonderful place. I LOVE that they have made it so that ALMOST anyone can afford to live here. You may be at the square and sit next to a person who ran a billion dollar company and also one who worked hard and diligently as a waitress. One would never know or care about your past and I love that about this place.

npwalters 08-13-2020 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 1816391)
The head of "the other news source" worked for The Villages several years ago and has an axe to grind. Most stories have a negative color towards The Villages.
And the Village Sun is all unicorns and flowers

npwalters 08-13-2020 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim 9922 (Post 1816493)
Looks like the camel is now almost fully in the tent. First a whisker (never completing a grill and bar room at Glenview Tennis Club, now an investment planner's office) then a nose (conversion of Silver Lake restaurant to a pool hall), then a foot (conversion of Chula Vista Country Club to a pool hall and a couple of meeting rooms), then another foot (El Santiago Country Club" sold but had to be torn down) then another foot (conversion of Terra Del Sol Country Club into a "theater toy" for "family members"), and the fourth foot (modification and eventual closing of Katie Belle's), now conversion of a country club (and maybe possibly part of a golf course) into apartments. What comes next?: All country clubs go, championship courses converted to more apartments, villas, homes, etc. By then the whole herd of camels is in the tent and we will be outside looking in. And maybe eventually Spanish Springs is torn down to be replace by a Costco, now the whole herd is reproducing!!

It is a shame that approval of such a significant change to an existing residential neighborhood area is allowed to proceed in less time than than it took to remove a few useless speed bumps on the golf cart paths or the in depth studies and engineering surveys done to stripe and reflectorize the cart paths. Of course, I am sure a few votes from current lame duck representatives played into the necessary speed of it. Now, just think what will happen in Sumter County as a whole if the Developer's apparent minions are voted out in the primaries.

The threat to put up a "big parking structure" to me is a joke unless there is a big nearby building to utilize it; and such a building, I would think, would require significant rezoning from recreational or residential use to commercial use.
good post

npwalters 08-13-2020 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1816737)
https://esarch.com/content/uploads/f...villages01.jpg

Here is a picture of the much larger Freedom Pointe as seen from The Golf Course.

The Assisted Living Facilities are built adjacent to area homes on 466 and 466A.
Neither of those facilities is built in the middle of a residential area. They are both north of the housing areas and south of the commercial district.

npwalters 08-13-2020 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1816797)
HEY. To posters who are relatively new here. Many of us are very happy with the incumbent commissioners. I have NO problem with the commissioners working well with the developer. The amenities fees paid go for all amenities. We all pay them. We all get the amenities. They don't "go" to the developer. Horse Manure. I like a big business run well.

Be very wary of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Many of us are not. I suspect they will be tossed to the wayside following this election.

Aces4 08-13-2020 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1816878)
We have lived in 11 different home in three states in our lifetime. This is the best run area of them all. Because of the deed restrictions and the maintenance by the developers this area is absolutely beautiful and well run. I don't know these people, but I would love to shake their hand some day and thank them. I feel as safe as I did as a child walking around this wonderful place. I LOVE that they have made it so that ALMOST anyone can afford to live here. You may be at the square and sit next to a person who ran a billion dollar company and also one who worked hard and diligently as a waitress. One would never know or care about your past and I love that about this place.
We have had over 20 closings in our life and this, in our experience, not the best run. Good, but not the best. That is our experience and does not dismiss your experiences.

That’s the point isn’t it? Why is everyone required to love everything about TheVillages? What floats your boat doesn’t float everyone else’s. You’re not being requested to dislike TheVillages. Repeating, people should do what makes them happy.

New Englander 08-13-2020 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1816797)
HEY. To posters who are relatively new here. Many of us are very happy with the incumbent commissioners. I have NO problem with the commissioners working well with the developer. The amenities fees paid go for all amenities. We all pay them. We all get the amenities. They don't "go" to the developer. Horse Manure. I like a big business run well.

Be very wary of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
It's more like the Commissioners working well FOR the developer.

Cbriggi 08-13-2020 12:47 PM
Hmmm...
 
So living in a house where we viewed the old club house and dealing with the traffic and lack of our own Rec Center - my major concerns are around the potential drop in value of my house, additional traffic on Morse, loss of local golf, and lack of a voice in the governance of the development.
One of the reasons we bought here was the “mature” development - we knew what we were getting for views and resources.
Allow those in the direct vicinity have their concerns heard and addressed - prior to just a rubber stamp of approval.

Aces4 08-13-2020 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 1816869)
The championship courses, clubs, restaurants and pools are privately owned businesses. They are not amenities.
You misread my post. I acknowledged that even if it required a membership at Hacienda, those people weren’t using the other amenities allowing a better occupancy level for residents.

npwalters 08-13-2020 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbriggi (Post 1816906)
So living in a house where we viewed the old club house and dealing with the traffic and lack of our own Rec Center - my major concerns are around the potential drop in value of my house, additional traffic on Morse, loss of local golf, and lack of a voice in the governance of the development.
One of the reasons we bought here was the “mature” development - we knew what we were getting for views and resources.
Allow those in the direct vicinity have their concerns heard and addressed - prior to just a rubber stamp of approval.
exactly

Mleeja 08-13-2020 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1816724)
I think the point is being missed in that the developers will charge for the amenity fees and pocket the profits. There will be no additional financial support to the apartments AAC for maintenance of said amenities.
At this point in time, the amenities associated with the apartments will be owned and maintained by the developer.

Mleeja 08-13-2020 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by npwalters (Post 1816894)
Neither of those facilities is built in the middle of a residential area. They are both north of the housing areas and south of the commercial district.
The houses that border holes 3, 4, 5, and maybe 6 of the Palms Course can all see Freedom Point when looking out over the golf course.


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