It makes me so sad that this unexpected fee has ruined your beginning here. I hope that time will heal this experience and that you will find that almost any event is worth the transition to living here.

What a good place this is to share both good and bad events. Welcome from my heart.

If you pay off your bond, and you do not market your home indicating to the potential buyer that they would save money compared to a house that does have a bond you, you should make sure your real estate agent makes that very clear in the listing. Also, I think it's foolish to pay 7% interest on a loan you cannot take off your taxes that is so much higher than current rates.

In an earlier comment you mentioned people investing in the bonds deserve to make their 7%. These bonds are marketable and as abuyer of the bond you should no the risk. If I'm not mistaken, this is a tax free rate.
If you buy now a long term rate it is much lower than 7 %. The neighborhood you are paying for is supposed to be new. Thus the bonds should be a recent issue. I guess, I must be missing something on this.

I have 31 months to figure this out I guess....

I should stay out of the discussion but I just can't. Are you sure the rate is 7%? I find that hard to believe. I would check with the district office to get the facts on the rate.

as coach said above, you're paying a very low property tax rate for the remainder of this year, basically as undeveloped property. you'll save about $2,000 this year. Are you also unhappy that you're not paying your fair share of property taxes?

I considered it a wash.

31 months till you retire or you move here? Time will pass quickly...at least I hope it does for you. Being able to plan your time as you wish is really all it's cracked up to be... ;)

When homes here are sold and there is no bond remaining, it is stated in the description, at least I've seen it written. Having the bond paid off doesn't mean I can sell my house for more, it just means that the new buyers won't have an additional payment each year.

I don't know for certain that the bond is 7%. Maybe, maybe not. It wasn't that high in past years.
I'm not sure if you've read about people doing a bit of moving in this community. Seems many do. Some move to new homes, homes that now have a bond and that has to be paid off? When someone buys a home here, it isn't necessarily the home they'll stay in. Circumstances and conditions can change and a larger or smaller dwelling is needed. If I move a few times, why am I paying off bonds for others. People have differing views on this and must do what they feel is correct for them.

I can't speak knowledgeably enough about the ins and outs of the tax free bonds and the developer so I won't. I will watch with interest what transpires between the IRS and this community's developer.

My point was, why take $10,000 to $50,000 out of savings or an IRA, lose interest or have to pay taxes, for a home when you might just buy another...and then have to do the same thing all over again. This is just my personal feeling about the matter. Some feel very differently about their bond....they'd rather not have that "debt" out there and are more comfortable paying it off. I feel much better just making a payment once a year and having the funds available for use if needed or wanted. As they say, "Your mileage may vary.".... ;)

Kinda like Florida sales tax for me. We are from Delaware--no sales tax.

When something costs $2.99, you pay $2.99!!

The bond issue has always been hard to understand for alot of Villagers. Hope you can come to terms with it and have fun here.

I hope it's 31 months for both. My wife isn't working so we hope to buy and settle in befoe. Timing on selling our house etc. I really don't expect to buy more than once. Paying off the bond is a financial thing and you have to be comfortable with your own decisions. There are pros and cons for both. You know which way I'm leaning though...:icon_wink:

Bond
 

I got a closing statement estimate prior to my closing showing my bond payment amount due at closing. I was also informed I could pay the balance the following year in July.I'm sorry you feel the way you do. Probably someone didn't explain it to you or you were so happy with your decission to move into TV you over looked it. As another poster said wait a year and pay it next year. By then you'll know alot more about TV.It's water under the bridge at this point. Don't let it spoil the ride of a life time. Consider it a small bump in the road. Welcome to TV.:BigApplause:

You might want to take a middle road and if you can take enough out in the mortgage to pay the bond and make the yearly payments at a lower rate then the 7% ,and it will also be deductable. It does not solve the initial back interest owed question but it makes more sense to me if you are staying.

I will try to do that ---by taking some mortgage cash and holding off for a year to see if we are staying put --Then using it to pay off the bond or buy a couple of golf carts with deductable dollars .

You can get many opinions, remember everyone has one ---what ever works for you--but I think the move to TV is the main thing ..
The Bond issue really bothered me when I first learned of it but the more I thought about it the less it mattered in the overall picture of where we want to live ... I think of it now as a part of the price of the home

Good luck

I am of the pay it off school of thought. While you might not get dollar for dollar back should you move, you will get much of it back. Having no Bond makes the house more marketable; able to command a higher selling price. At 6 or 7%, non tax deductible, it is pretty expensive money. Prime is currently 3.25%!

I'd really like to know, someday, who The Shadow is. I really want to know the story behind the story. Why is he/she so fixated on the IRS bond issue that even the IRS isn't really pushing? Hmmmm,

I hope you have the opportunity to get here sooner, also. You'll really love the place.

Here's hoping all works out well for you and your wife.

Makes one wonder, doesn't it Russ. Maybe one day we'll know just what "The Shadow Knows."..... ;)

Probably viewing TV from afar. Envy takes on different forms.

Long story short, a couple things I am really afraid of, fire and the IRS. I quit playing with matches when I was a kid after I darn near burned the house down. I have scary memories of people being destroyed by the IRS. I have made it a practice to do my own income tax after my first year of filing was screwed up by a paid tax person three times and it was me that found the mistakes. I learned the IRS rules as they pertained to me and followed them to the letter and used them to my advantage.

Why am I fixated on it? I did not cause the problem and I can not fix the problem and in my estimation the IRS could bring dire consequence to the home owners. I think the IRS will demand money, the CDD will not have money so the IRS will take the assets. What assets? Think about it.

“the IRS isn't really pushing” my words would be the IRS does not telegraphy its moves and they have just been silent for 6 months.

I am not trying to sell anyone on what I think but I think that everyone that has a finical interest in the outcome should be aware of the problem and the information available to make an informed decision.

“who The Shadow is” We will go into that another day.

That’s my story Mr. Russ

Dear Soon2be,

My heart goes out to you. Your username speaks to your excitement about moving to TV. Buyer's remorse is stressful, as is a sense that your bubble has been burst. (I mean this in more ways than one as many of us TV'ers think of TV as a bubble.)

I hope that you would not have changed your mind about living in TV had you known that homeowners have only a once-a-year option, in July, to payoff the bond. It would make me sad if you just feel stuck and don't still want to be here.

When we asked about paying off the bond, both our Villages and MLS agents told us that the bond could be paid off only in July each year.
We asked if we could pay down the bond. Both agents told us that the only two choices are to pay the amount that is due each year, or to pay the bond in full in July. Homeowners receive a reminder each year in advance of the July payoff period.

Sometimes it is difficult to know the right questions to ask. (I could understand if you just assumed you could pay off the bond at closing.) However, if you were told you could pay off the bond without penalty at closing, then you were indeed wronged.

I think what you have decided to do-- wait until next July to pay off the bond-- is the most sensible course under the circumstances. I don't know what else you could do at this point, other than perhaps report your agent, if he/she gave you misinformation, to either Villages mgm. or to the agent's Broker's office and the Florida Board of Realtors.

I hope you can put this behind you and enjoy the people, amenities and beauty that make TV a wonderful place to live.

I'm sending a virtual hug.

???????????????????????????
 

I absolutely love the residents of TV, you live in this bubble, free from the outside world. Ben Bernanke says the economy is "unusally uncertain" and is weakening. But inside TV everything is just swell, i hope you are right and everybody else is just wrong.We should all have your postive outlook, living in the world of Disney and Mary Poppins. All i can say is...................... supercalifragilisticeexpialidocious, and hope reality never reaches TV.:confused:

Your consistent...are you sure you want to move to the Villages? Just curious.

TV Land
 

I would love to live in TV, but unlike many, who buy on there first visit, i want to know EVERYTHING about the entire community before i invest.I KNOW the people of TV are terrific,but a community without representation is eventually in serious trouble, just look at history.The residents of TV need not to get sooooooooo defensive EVERYTIME somebody questions their "kool aid, disney, stepford" existence. TV needs residents who will question the policy of the leadership, and i see very little of that presently.THE SHADOW KNOWS :duck:

One more option....Buy in Lake County...NO bond

Do you have any idea how many governmental boards and committees hold meetings in TV that fall under state open meeting laws where public input is allowed? I'm not defending anything just putting out facts.

In many areas around the US, numerous decision making town and county boards and committees are appointed by elected council members and supervisors who represent certain areas of the county. Town managers, police chiefs, fire chiefs, recreation dept. supervisors, judges, county administrators, PSA administrators, landfill administrators, et al, are generally not elected positions. The same goes for the state and federal positions.

If someone is elected to a position in government you didn't vote to put into office, do you throw up your hands in dispair and walk away, work the whole term to get them ousted or let your voice be heard either for or against decisions and policy?

Remember people - we have a political forum for a reason. Let's keep this thread to bond talk.

The original poster already talked politics in his post????

Kentucky blue,

One of my favorite stories about TV people, a story that demonstrates what kind of people that live in TV is about. A tornado that went thru the area of Mallory Hills County Club, homes were destroyed, SUVs blown about, Club house closed for repairs for the better part of a year, the Red Cross came to the rescue to provide food and shelter to the homeless people. What happened next was one of the most fantastic things I have ever witnessed humans do, the Red Cross was not needed, other than handing out a few sandwiches TV people took care and provide for their neighbors. Cleanup started when the rain stopped.

I agree TV is a bubble all right.

And I would be remiss if I did not point out that contrary to what Kentucky Blue would have you believe, the homeowners in TV most certainly DO have representation through their elected officials on the Board of Directors of their respective CDDs.

North of 466, all of the Directors are elected by the homeowners. South of 466, while the build out continues, some of the directors are homeowner elected and some are Developer appointed. And all of this is done in accordance with Florida’s Chapter 190 which the CDDs are organized under.

Kentucky Blue.

The people who live in The Villages for the most part represent a group that were a little more careful with their money than younger people are today. They also have many among them whose parents lived through the depression and who learned to be frugal and "green" before that term was used. They worked harder and sacrificed more than younger people do today. They weren't impulsive and their financial situations now reflect that. Many people buy their homes outright and furnish them with money they have saved. They have lived long enough that most do not throw their money away and they give a lot of thought to a large financial decision.

It hurts me when you seem to group us all together as unrealistic. I am sure you didn't mean to give that impression. Many of us feel that this is a place that we would like to live and enjoy this part of our life. A good many do not live in "this bubble" full time and still continue to function doing useful and sometimes important things in the "outside world'.

I think that we take a risk buying any kind of home anywhere in this economy. The value may go down. As for the infrastructure,and governance here, most of us know how it is run and agree with the benefits and restrictions. The rules are like those in a restrictive housing development in any number of places. Someday the power to decide day to day issues will be placed completely in the hands of the homeowners. I don't even want to think about that time. I have lived through the power struggles and ego trips, the posturing and bad decisions of homeowners associations run by people whose main job is not that kind of management. People who can't keep their own finances or affairs in order. It makes me shiver to think about it.

Now that two years have passed with our half time occupation, we are doing what I thought we'd never do and are putting things in place live in TV full time. We are leaving a place that we were comfortable for a place that we enjoy immensely. We are being completely selfish, something new to us. There are no words to describe how much we love this atmosphere.
It occupies our time, there is something new to see and do every day, but most of all we are surrounded by wonderful people who make us laugh, make us think and surprise us.

It works for us.

Meaning no harm, and hoping that you will understand what I am trying to say.

Kindest wishes,
Gracie

I think we are getting the bonds mixed up again.. the bond on your home is not the ones challenged by the IRS and the CDD directors have nothing to do with them.

But although this is off the main point of the thread, the statement about the directors needs to be clarified. Someone help with letting us know when those directors became elected positions vs appointed by the developer as it pertains to the IRS bonds.
How many of those directors were elected at the time that the CDDs agreed to purchase property from the Director at prices the IRS "claims" were excessive and then sell the tax free bonds that were used to pay for those purchases that the IRS is going after the CDDs for which the homeowners in their amenities fee or reduced amenities, not the developer, will be financially responsible?
I sincerely want to know: did democracy come to those CDDS before or after the financial decisions now being challenged by the IRS were made by directors appointed by the developer? If those directors were elected before those purchases from the developer were made and the tax free bonds were sold to finance the purchases then homeowners have no gripe.. they elected those directors so they are responsible for the decisions..
BUT if the directors that made those decisions were not elected but instead appointed, it is NOT fair for the homeowners to be responsible for the IRS costs.... just as simple as that.
So which is it?

Check this out.....

CDDs suggest format to elect council
Staff Report
Published: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 6:30 a.m.
Last Modified: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 4:52 p.m.

( page of 5 )

THE VILLAGES - Supervisory board chairmen of community development districts 1-4, representing all Villages residents north of County Road 466, met last week to hammer out a common format for electing members of the soon-to-be created Resident Advisory Council - a group intended to provide homeowners with greater and more effective input regarding the use of amenity fees and other issues of concern.
Snip......
http://www.ocala.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a.../1131/REPORTER

How many times am I going to have to repeat this before it finally sinks into some of you that no homeowner in The Villages has, nor ever will own so much as one blade of grass or one brick of the executive golf courses, recreation centers, and community pools. Those were built by the Developer and remained his property and were not conveyed to anyone that purchased a home in TV. And that fact is made very clear in the closing documents and contract that each homeowner signed.

So why some of you insist on thinking that homeowners in TV should have a vote on something that they don’t own (in whole or in part) is beyond me.

All of the recreation facilities north of 466 were place under control of the special Village Center Community Development District (VCDDD) and all of the recreation facilities south of 466 were placed under control of the special Sumter Landing Community Development District (SLCDD). And since The Developer owns all of the recreation facilities in those two CDDs he has and will continue to excersise his right to appoint the members of the board of those two communities now and for the foreseeable future, and they will continue to vote the way he wants them to.

Now when you buy a home in TV, you are entitled to vote for membership of the board for the numbered CDD (1 through 10) in which you reside. That board will make decisions about maintenance of the common grounds (but not the recreation facilities because they are not part of that CDD) and will set the annual maintenance fee that you will be charged to replace all those flowers, mow and beautify the beltways, dredge the retention ponds of algae, etc. and do all the other things that make TV such a beautiful place to live.

And no amount of complaining or flag waving is going to change that because that’s just the way it is.

EdV.... your facts are correct. I've studied this setup and it sure took awhile to comprehend it. It is neither simple nor straightforward. The types of CDDs (numbered residential vs central) and types of bonds (residential infrastructure vs recreation/amenity vs utility) are easily confused and interchanged when they shouldn't be.

Amenities (pools, exec golf, rec centers) are managed by the central CDDs. These CDDs are run by commercial landowners, which, in essence, is the Developer. Residents have some input into projects and priorities via various community improvement councils and amenity authority committee, but, it is input only and non-binding. The central CDDs will own the amenities as they are purchased from the Developer. We, the residents, pay an amenity fee to the central CDD for the right to use the amenity facilities.

Everyone should attend the CDD orientation class put on by the Villages. It is a good overview on our form of government and the amenity structure.

For a non-villager this guy sure know a lot.

Not necessarily a bad thing, if it's accurate...

Thank you for making the point. Democracy NEVER came to the villagers even as they pay the bills for maintenance, and the amenities are bought using the villagers money.
I think the villagers deserve a vote and voice.

Having been involved with the management of 1,700 condominium units, encompassing 7 separate associations, you really don't want to go there.

I was well aware of the central CDD situation. That's why we pay an amenities fee every month. Don't think it makes much difference who really owns the facilities as long as we pay, and get to use them. Seems to have worked well so far.

Paying off the Bond
 

My wife and i waited 4 years before deciding we were going to stay put so i paid off the bond. The interest charged is not deductible and what i was getting for the money in the bank was minimal (1%).

Not the same decision everyone makes but it was a joint decision and we are happy with it.

Huh? Apples and oranges. Weird logic but then again that may be the crux of the problem you have with the bond. You are comparing a situation where the terms of a contract were changed after it was signed to our bond situation which is what it is and not going to change after you sign your contract. No I would not accept an unlawful change to a binding contract so how in your mind is this the same as the bond situation here? I can tell already that you will end up unhappy because there are other issues besides the bond that would drive you crazy here. You cannot desire something and then mold it to your tastes without changing that which you first desired. Enough time wasted on this. Good luck.

How many Bonds are there?
 

I'm confused. How many bonds are there? The original poster was annoyed to pay interest on a "bond" that he was going to pay off on day one.
Not so illogical. He is buying a home and this is strictly business. This has nothing to do with how much he loves TV. It was the developer who decided to market their properties this way, not the buyers. The developer could have simply added the "bond" cost to the cost of each house. Therefore the developer should eat the interst cost. (Please don't tar and feather me) I've been reading threads on the IRS issue and bonds for months. Am I wrong in simply saying the bond is covering amenities and the infrastructure surrounding TV homes? In my simple mind, the developer came up with a method using Florida law to finance these amenities utilizing tax free bonds. (The IRS seems not to be in agreement) Therefore reducing the cost to his customers. Please let me know which statements of mine are incorrect. I'm sure there are lot's of TOTVers out there who are confused as well. thanks!

Not really.

e


Yes, Really!!!