Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
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Bill14564 06-09-2023 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2225141)
The Developer is not making laws. They're making rules. It's not against the law to rent property in the Villages. And your Florida law, above, will support that. But the law doesn't prohibit owners of private property from allowing or forbidding rentals on their own property. The law can't force me to rent my property out, and the law can't prevent me from renting it if I want to. The rules of this community, however, can. It doesn't prohibit it in my part of the Villages, but it might in others. And it can be prohibited in new construction, if the Developer wanted to prohibit it.

Don't know how the statute might apply to deed restrictions on homes that are not yet built. It certainly seems to apply to any attempt to affect rentals.

On the other hand, this discussion is moot if no one attempts to enforce a restriction. If the Developer cannot or will not and if no homeowner attempts to then effectively there are no restrictions against rentals.

OrangeBlossomBaby 06-09-2023 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2225147)
Don't know how the statute might apply to deed restrictions on homes that are not yet built. It certainly seems to apply to any attempt to affect rentals.

On the other hand, this discussion is moot if no one attempts to enforce a restriction. If the Developer cannot or will not and if no homeowner attempts to then effectively there are no restrictions against rentals.

The statute doesn't apply to deed restrictions at all. It applies only to local governments making laws about rentals. The Developer isn't a government and the deed restrictions are made on the Developer's private property. And no - it doesn't matter, since the Developer doesn't make much effort to enforce their own rules.

Bill14564 06-09-2023 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2225148)
The statute doesn't apply to deed restrictions at all. It applies only to local governments making laws about rentals. The Developer isn't a government and the deed restrictions are made on the Developer's private property. And no - it doesn't matter, since the Developer doesn't make much effort to enforce their own rules.

That is really something for a court to decide, which isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

dougawhite 06-09-2023 10:26 PM

Restriction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2224489)
Simple English comprehension.

What do you base your disagreement on? Do you have deed restriction wording that specifically prohibits rentals? Have you read the Florida law concerning short-term rentals? Do you know of a case where a rental in the Villages was found to be a violation of the deed restrictions?

Deed restricts running a business ftom your home where customers have to drive to your home. So, by definition, if your renters drive to your home, it is a business in violation.

Bill14564 06-10-2023 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougawhite (Post 2225150)
Deed restricts running a business ftom your home where customers have to drive to your home. So, by definition, if your renters drive to your home, it is a business in violation.

I suspect renters are not customers in the sense that the deed restrictions use the term. But again, that is up to a court to decide. If you have any examples where the Villages restrictions have been upheld in that way, please share.

BrianL99 06-10-2023 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2225064)
That would require a change in deed restrictions. People buy properties here intentionally as rental investments. A deed restriction would need to grandfather them in, otherwise they'd be looking at a LOT of lawsuits. They were ALLOWED to do this, because there was no restriction forbidding it, when they purchased the properties.

They could make no-rental restrictions on future development but - then they'd also have to eliminate their own Lifestyle visits because those are short-term rentals for up to 7 days each, in those new development areas.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2225074)
My belief is that most of the properties being rented are through a service like AirBnB, ****, The Villages Hometown Properties, or something like that. I would have thought that these services would help the homeowner/landlord to stay legal. It's certainly possible that I am wrong and rentals aren't through a service or that the service doesn't help the homeowners in this way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2225134)
Florida law 509.032(7)(b) appears to prohibit any post-2011 local laws attempting to affect rentals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2225141)
The Developer is not making laws. They're making rules. It's not against the law to rent property in the Villages. And your Florida law, above, will support that. But the law doesn't prohibit owners of private property from allowing or forbidding rentals on their own property. The law can't force me to rent my property out, and the law can't prevent me from renting it if I want to. The rules of this community, however, can. It doesn't prohibit it in my part of the Villages, but it might in others. And it can be prohibited in new construction, if the Developer wanted to prohibit it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2225147)
Don't know how the statute might apply to deed restrictions on homes that are not yet built. It certainly seems to apply to any attempt to affect rentals.

On the other hand, this discussion is moot if no one attempts to enforce a restriction. If the Developer cannot or will not and if no homeowner attempts to then effectively there are no restrictions against rentals.

No offense intended gentlemen, but Mr. Bill & OrangeBlossomBaby, you have little or no understanding of real estate law, zoning and restrictive covenants.

Real Estate ownership in most countries is based on a "Bundle of Rights". Those rights can be transferred, sold or withheld, almost at will. The Developer can sell some lots with "restrictions", yet not restrict others. (Bundle of rights - Wikipedia)

The "Law" can effect real estate in general and can limit or control almost anything and can tell you, your home can't be rented or painted purple.

The "Law" in Florida regarding prohibiting regulation of STR's, applies to communities and counties, not individual land owners. Land owners selling property, can "retain" the right to restrict the use of properties they sell. They are only selling the part of the "bundle" they want to sell.

About the only right a Seller can't retain, is a "right" which offends public sensibilities (i.e., prohibiting a certain race or religion from buying or living on the property).

The Developer can reserved the right not to enforce some restrictions (within reason), but that generally doesn't prevent a 3rd Party Beneficiary from seeking to enforced those restrictions (either within the framework of the restrictive scheme or perhaps under the theory of Detrimental Reliance).

Before you go much further down the road of what's legal, what the developer can do or not do and how Florida law effects individual landowners, you should acquaint yourself with the how property rights work.

Restrictive Covenants – Everything You Need to Know

Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions | Attorneys' Title Guaranty Fund, Inc.

Can a Restrictive Covenant Be Removed From a Property? | HowStuffWorks

Restrictive Covenants: Definition, How They Work, and Examples

Land Use 101 is dismissed for the day.

Papa_lecki 06-10-2023 05:49 AM

I would be surprised if the covenants are EVER enforced.

First, for short term rentals - it will negatively impact market value. Many buyers rely on the STR income to either afford the house as a snow bird or buy as an investment. Less demand = lower price. Not only for developer, but for us, in the resale market.

Second, MANY people run a business out of their home. Just look at the market events at the square. The guy selling golf cart screens, the embroidery people, the sign people - probably all keep inventory at their house, do their books out of the house.

I am glad I don’t like near a STR, I think the stability of owner occupants is important, but I just don’t think it will be addressed.

GizmoWhiskers 06-10-2023 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2224804)
Can you cite the wording that says the Developer is to enforce the deed restrictions? (HINT: I haven't found it in any of the restrictions I have read)

Right. After each "village" is completed and the 1 year "warrenty" is up on the property/village, T V takes control of the "Village" and ARC plus the CCD has the approval and deed restriction compliance control.

Bill14564 06-10-2023 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2225156)
No offense intended gentlemen, but Mr. Bill & OrangeBlossomBaby, you have little or no understanding of real estate law, zoning and restrictive covenants.

Real Estate ownership in most countries is based on a "Bundle of Rights". Those rights can be transferred, sold or withheld, almost at will. The Developer can sell some lots with "restrictions", yet not restrict others. (Bundle of rights - Wikipedia)

The "Law" can effect real estate in general and can limit or control almost anything and can tell you, your home can't be rented or painted purple.

The "Law" in Florida regarding prohibiting regulation of STR's, applies to communities and counties, not individual land owners. Land owners selling property, can "retain" the right to restrict the use of properties they sell. They are only selling the part of the "bundle" they want to sell.

About the only right a Seller can't retain, is a "right" which offends public sensibilities (i.e., prohibiting a certain race or religion from buying or living on the property).

The Developer can reserved the right not to enforce some restrictions (within reason), but that generally doesn't prevent a 3rd Party Beneficiary from seeking to enforced those restrictions (either within the framework of the restrictive scheme or perhaps under the theory of Detrimental Reliance).

Before you go much further down the road of what's legal, what the developer can do or not do and how Florida law effects individual landowners, you should acquaint yourself with the how property rights work.

Restrictive Covenants – Everything You Need to Know

Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions | Attorneys' Title Guaranty Fund, Inc.

Can a Restrictive Covenant Be Removed From a Property? | HowStuffWorks

Restrictive Covenants: Definition, How They Work, and Examples

Land Use 101 is dismissed for the day.

So where does that leave us....

Most deed restrictions do not mention rentals at all. When businesses are mentioned in the deed restrictions, most specify maintaining an inventory or customer visits, neither of which likely apply to rentals.

The Florida law 509.032 mentions law, ordinance, or regulation but does not mention deed restriction. This likely means it would not invalidate a Villages deed restriction (but that would be up to a court to decide).

No one has yet cited a case ruling against renting in the Villages.

Thank you for doing some research and providing links but I'm still feeling pretty good about my understanding of things.

wawriwwawriw 06-10-2023 06:21 AM

There is no HOA BUT here is a Property Owners Association. Not that it makes a difference it is not their responsibility. This matter probably fall under the CDD, using his Distric representative to see if there is any violation.

golfing eagles 06-10-2023 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2225167)
So where does that leave us....

Most deed restrictions do not mention rentals at all. When businesses are mentioned in the deed restrictions, most specify maintaining an inventory or customer visits, neither of which likely apply to rentals.

The Florida law 509.032 mentions law, ordinance, or regulation but does not mention deed restriction. This likely means it would not invalidate a Villages deed restriction (but that would be up to a court to decide).

No one has yet cited a case ruling against renting in the Villages.

Thank you for doing some research and providing links but I'm still feeling pretty good about my understanding of things.

I'm confused about the whole issue, but then again I have no specific real estate or restrictive covenant knowledge, so this may be a stupid question: Isn't TV primarily zoned for single family residences, so how does 6 unrelated individuals fall into that category? Does zoning only apply to the owner and not to whomever they rent to? Isn't there some sort of remedy for this?

Which leads to the question of what's next. Section 8 housing???? Halfway houses? Homeless shelters??? Bronx style high rise tenements? Are we primarily a 55+ retirement community or a 1 week vacation destination and flop house for illegal aliens?

retiredguy123 06-10-2023 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2225170)
I'm confused about the whole issue, but then again I have no specific real estate or restrictive covenant knowledge, so this may be a stupid question: Isn't TV primarily zoned for single family residences, so how does 6 unrelated individuals fall into that category? Does zoning only apply to the owner and not to whomever they rent to? Isn't there some sort of remedy for this?

Which leads to the question of what's next. Section 8 housing???? Halfway houses? Homeless shelters??? Bronx style high rise tenements? Are we primarily a 55+ retirement community or a 1 week vacation destination and flop house for illegal aliens?

When I lived in Virginia, 20 or more immigrant construction workers would stay in a rented house. When questioned about the law regarding single family members, they would say that they were all "cousins".

Bill14564 06-10-2023 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2225170)
I'm confused about the whole issue, but then again I have no specific real estate or restrictive covenant knowledge, so this may be a stupid question: Isn't TV primarily zoned for single family residences, so how does 6 unrelated individuals fall into that category? Does zoning only apply to the owner and not to whomever they rent to? Isn't there some sort of remedy for this?

Which leads to the question of what's next. Section 8 housing???? Halfway houses? Homeless shelters??? Bronx style high rise tenements? Are we primarily a 55+ retirement community or a 1 week vacation destination and flop house for illegal aliens?

Singe-family zoning likely means no apartment buildings and maybe no duplexes though the existence of the lofts at Brownwood would argue against that. I did not find any mention of single-family in my restrictions. I may have missed it and most restrictions differ in some way so maybe that is a requirement in others.

I have to believe that I am allowed to have friends visit so single-family cannot prohibit overnight guests who are not related. At some point an extended stay becomes a residency but my guess is that anything less than 30 days (maybe even 90 days) would not be an issue.

My restrictions have a long paragraph on at least one resident being 55 years of age. Within that paragraph there are exceptions for ages 19-55 residing in a home without one resident over 55 as long as the number of these homes does not exceed 20% of all homes. 20% of all homes is a very large number and a renter is likely not considered a resident.

All the above and the section 8 or flop house question depend on enforcement. The Developer should be able to enforce the rules at the time of sale (keeping 55+ owners in 80% or more of all homes) and they certainly have the right to enforce the deed restrictions after the sale. However, either the restrictions do not prohibit rentals or no one, including the Developer, is sufficiently interested to attempt to enforce a rental prohibition.

Note: IANAL (as has been point out), these are just my thoughts after reading the restrictions and observing what is happening

bogmonster 06-10-2023 07:03 AM

Do what most Yankees would do, put a sign out demanding $15/hr minimum wage and then walk over and offer them $1/hr to mow your yard, trim the bushes and clean your house.

Normal 06-10-2023 07:28 AM

Mention
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2225170)
I'm confused about the whole issue, but then again I have no specific real estate or restrictive covenant knowledge, so this may be a stupid question: Isn't TV primarily zoned for single family residences, so how does 6 unrelated individuals fall into that category? Does zoning only apply to the owner and not to whomever they rent to? Isn't there some sort of remedy for this?

Which leads to the question of what's next. Section 8 housing???? Halfway houses? Homeless shelters??? Bronx style high rise tenements? Are we primarily a 55+ retirement community or a 1 week vacation destination and flop house for illegal aliens?

Rentals aren’t necessarily permissible in The Villages, but are done. If I were in the OP’s position, I’d gladly dish out 10 to 20K (Would probably be a lot less in cost) get something moving through the courts. Just nuke the situation before it gets out of hand. You would save that just in property value. There are 6 paying customers living next door violate the spirit and intent of purchasing a retirement community home. I’m sure there are more than a few investigative reporters who would love to cover this too.

asianthree 06-10-2023 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEXJK (Post 2224387)
Hello,
Recently moved into the villages fantastic experience so far.
Question is it common practice for villas to be rented for a week or less to day workers? One currently rented to 6 non English speaking day workers.
What is the HOA policy for renting?
Thanks

The developer rents out villas for lifestyle visits. 2-10 days depends on the time of year. In 2010, Our first home in TV had a rental on the corner, one of the four spoke minimal English. They rented for 3 months, working construction in TV.

Always friendly bringing great food to driveway parties. I am totally against ABnB short term rentals, I definitely am not against renters that English is not first language. Our children & grands can speak, read and write, French, German, Russian, Spanish, Vietnamese.

My granddaughter will switch to Cantonese with her fiancé when she visits TV, especially at the pools.

Her quote “sometimes older generations don’t feel comfortable when she visits”. Her ethnicity is hard to determine, she is Vietnamese, native American, Swedish, Celtic.

RedChariot 06-10-2023 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2225170)
I'm confused about the whole issue, but then again I have no specific real estate or restrictive covenant knowledge, so this may be a stupid question: Isn't TV primarily zoned for single family residences, so how does 6 unrelated individuals fall into that category? Does zoning only apply to the owner and not to whomever they rent to? Isn't there some sort of remedy for this?

Which leads to the question of what's next. Section 8 housing???? Halfway houses? Homeless shelters??? Bronx style high rise tenements? Are we primarily a 55+ retirement community or a 1 week vacation destination and flop house for illegal aliens?

Well said. You state our fears exactly after seeing over 11 years the changes here. Don't think it can't happen here. It can!! Your final sentence I want to scream it out loud. Please listen folks!

JGibson 06-10-2023 08:39 AM

Does anyone know how far a barbecue grill has to be from your exterior wall?

The next-door CYV which turned into a monthly rental has the barbeque grill right up against my wall in a CYV.

I’m gonna tell the owner when I can locate her to move it to her side of the wall.
The smoke and grease are getting all over my wall.

I said on page 2 I will be the biggest PITA if her tenants turn this into some timeshare/college dormitory kind of thing.

Especially after she said she doesn't care about neighbors who don't like the rentals.

Her first tenant I had to chase away from my window because he was smoking and coughing his brains out at 5 am with the smoke coming into my window.

As someone with COPD, I don't need this.

This CYV design of curved driveways and having to go into the neighbor's backyard to clean my exterior wall is starting to become a headache.

I’m glad I didn't invest a lot into the inside of the house because it seems like the renters are gonna win and I may have to move.

BrianL99 06-10-2023 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2225184)
Singe-family zoning likely means no apartment buildings and maybe no duplexes though the existence of the lofts at Brownwood would argue against that. I did not find any mention of single-family in my restrictions. I may have missed it and most restrictions differ in some way so maybe that is a requirement in others.


My restrictions have a long paragraph on at least one resident being 55 years of age. Within that paragraph there are exceptions for ages 19-55 residing in a home without one resident over 55 as long as the number of these homes does not exceed 20% of all homes. 20% of all homes is a very large number and a renter is likely not considered a resident.

All the above and the section 8 or flop house question depend on enforcement. The Developer should be able to enforce the rules at the time of sale (keeping 55+ owners in 80% or more of all homes) and they certainly have the right to enforce the deed restrictions after the sale. However, either the restrictions do not prohibit rentals or no one, including the Developer, is sufficiently interested to attempt to enforce a rental prohibition.

Note: IANAL (as has been point out), these are just my thoughts after reading the restrictions and observing what is happening

Most "anal" folks would be more sure of their facts.

Age Restricted Housing is regulated (primarily) by the Federal Government.

The standard is NOT 20% owned by someone over 55.

The standard is NOT 20% of the residents must be over 55.

The standards IS, 20% of the OCCUPANTS must be over 55.

The Villages has an obligation under HUD regulations, to insure that housing constructed as "Age Restricted" always remains in compliance. The methodology developers use to maintain compliance, varies.

"Single-family zoning" is designation, without specificity. It means only what that particular City/Town/County/State has defined it as and it can be modified on an ad hoc basis, by a plethora of exceptions (notably, affordable housing, special use housing, age restricted housing, etc.).

BrianL99 06-10-2023 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2225167)
I'm still feeling pretty good about my understanding of things.


On the Internet Discussion Boards, facts don't matter ... only one's confidence level.

(You probably should have read the links and been educated)

oldtimes 06-10-2023 09:18 AM

This is the law:
The Fair Housing Act: Housing for Older Persons


What Are the Fair Housing Act’s "Housing for Older Persons" Exemptions?

The Fair Housing Act specifically exempts three types of housing for older persons from liability for familial status discrimination. Such exempt housing facilities or communities can lawfully refuse to sell or rent dwellings to families with minor children only if they qualify for the exemption. In order to qualify for the "housing for older persons" exemption, a facility or community must comply with all the requirements of the exemption.

The Housing for Older Persons exemptions apply to the following housing:

Provided under any state or federal program that the Secretary of HUD has determined to be specifically designed and operated to assist elderly persons (as defined in the state or federal program);
Intended for, and solely occupied by persons 62 years of age or older; or
Intended and operated for occupancy by persons 55 years of age or older.

The 55 or older exemption is the most common of the three.
How to Qualify for the “55 or Older” Exemption

In order to qualify for the "55 or older" housing exemption, a facility or community must satisfy each of the following requirements:

At least 80 percent of the units must have at least one occupant who is 55 years of age or older; and
The facility or community must publish and adhere to policies and procedures that demonstrate the intent to operate as "55 or older" housing
; and
The facility or community must comply with HUD's regulatory requirements for age verification of residents.

The "housing for older persons" exemption does not protect such housing facilities or communities from liability for housing discrimination because of race, color, religion, sex, disability, or national origin.

justjim 06-10-2023 09:34 AM

Deed restrictions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JGibson (Post 2224480)
I would’ve believed the post if you didn't put in the non-English speaking bit.

The Villa next to me has turned into a monthly rental. I’ve seen in 4 months 4 different sets of renters.

The Owner who lives around the corner and I quote “I know people don't like it but I don't care”

She is not going to like me as a neighbor if she turns into a timeshare.

Deed restrictions might be slightly different depending which CDD district you live in. Knowing your districts deed restrictions is important but another districts deed restrictions not so much unless you plan to purchase real estate within that district. I understand there is a “process” to make changes though your district board. I’m not aware of any district attempting to change deed restrictions on length of time you can rent out your property. We own a condo outside of TV, and there is a minimum 3 month restriction on rentals. It’s a restriction put in place to keep a neighbor from turning their place into a motel/hotel. In CDD 10, (my CDD) there are no such limits on rentals. I have no knowledge of other CDD rental restrictions but suspect they are likely the same. No problem unless a house or villa in your back yard is turned into a motel/hotel.

Bill14564 06-10-2023 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2225217)
Most "anal" folks would be more sure of their facts.

....



Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2225221)
On the Internet Discussion Boards, facts don't matter ... only one's confidence level.

(You probably should have read the links and been educated)

I know it is exciting to argue on social media but when you are done schooling me and the adrenaline wears off you should go back and read what I wrote. You will find that it is consistent with the deed restrictions which appear to be consistent with the HUD rules.

In case it confused you, I used the word "resident" to mean an individual occupying the home over a period of time and not just the body within the home at a specific moment.

OrangeBlossomBaby 06-10-2023 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2225217)
Most "anal" folks would be more sure of their facts.

Age Restricted Housing is regulated (primarily) by the Federal Government.

The standard is NOT 20% owned by someone over 55.

The standard is NOT 20% of the residents must be over 55.

The standards IS, 20% of the OCCUPANTS must be over 55.

The Villages has an obligation under HUD regulations, to insure that housing constructed as "Age Restricted" always remains in compliance. The methodology developers use to maintain compliance, varies.

"Single-family zoning" is designation, without specificity. It means only what that particular City/Town/County/State has defined it as and it can be modified on an ad hoc basis, by a plethora of exceptions (notably, affordable housing, special use housing, age restricted housing, etc.).

No the standard is not the bold underlined area. In fact it's not even a standard. It's an actual law. The law is as follows:

Quote:

Federal Register 24 CFR Part 100; section 760.24-760.37 (4a), Florida Statutes

For a community to be considered "housing for older persons" as a 55+ community, the housing must be intended and operated for occupancy by persons 55 years of age or older and meet the following requirements:

At least 80% of the occupied units are occupied by at least one person 55 years of age or older.

The facility or community publishes and adheres to policies and procedures that demonstrate its intent to in fact be a provider of housing for older persons.

The facility or community complies with rules established by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) for verification of occupancy.
So at least 80% must be occupied by at least one person 55 or older. The other 20% may, or may not, depending on the community's decisions. They MAY make it 100% must be at least 55 or older. They can be more restrictive if they want. But they may not be less restrictive.

However, the Villages has not enforced this in many years. They are selling new construction, as far as I can tell, according to the law. But resales sold by non-Villages MLS realtors don't really care who lives in the house they're selling. And the Developer doesn't ask the age of the resident until AFTER the house has sold and the residents apply for their Villages ID. By that point it's too late.

tophcfa 06-10-2023 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2225170)
I'm confused about the whole issue, but then again I have no specific real estate or restrictive covenant knowledge, so this may be a stupid question: Isn't TV primarily zoned for single family residences, so how does 6 unrelated individuals fall into that category? Does zoning only apply to the owner and not to whomever they rent to? Isn't there some sort of remedy for this?

Which leads to the question of what's next. Section 8 housing???? Halfway houses? Homeless shelters??? Bronx style high rise tenements? Are we primarily a 55+ retirement community or a 1 week vacation destination and flop house for illegal aliens?

I’ll answer this the best I can, addressing deed restrictions only but not local, state, or federal law. Unfortunately, I felt a need to learn about this because a very poorly run AIRBnB was being operated in close proximity to our home (fortunately the woman running the neighborhood disrupting operation has moved away).

First, let’s talk rentals where the owner of the home is not concurrently living there. There are no restrictions, even for renting by the hour. If you live next to one of these, you are basically SOL. The only protection you have is the hope that the homeowner wants to be a good neighbor, carefully screens their tenants, and rents longer term.

Second, let’s talk rentals where the homeowner rents out space in their home while simultaneously living there. Two deed restrictions come into play in this scenario. A home shall be used as a single family residence and a business shall not be run out of the home. Both of these deed restrictions do not specifically refer to rentals, so an interpretation of the intent of the restrictions is required.

Let’s discuss each restriction:

The intent of single family use is to insure exactly that. It is entirely reasonable for homeowners to have non family member guests visit and stay in their homes. I have some golf buddies that visit for a few days once or twice a year. They are not paying to stay there and are not a revolving door of non stop customers with no other connection to the homeowners other than an income source. Most importantly, occasional visiting guests are not detrimental to the neighborhood and the quality of the neighbor’s lifestyle.

The intent of restricting running a business from one’s home is also an attempt to insure an operation is not detrimental to the neighborhood and the quality of the neighbor’s lifestyle. Someone working from their home on line, who does not carry business inventories or have customers coming and going from their home clearly doesn’t fall within the intent of the restriction. On the other hand, someone running a revolving door rental operation, for profit, with renters (paid business customers) constantly coming and going, creating parking issues, and making excessive noise, certainly does fall within the intent of the restriction.

I get it that both of these deed restrictions are subject to reasonable interpretation of their intent. Given that, I couple years ago I calling community standards to report a poorly run AIRBnB operation in my neighborhood. They informed me that they do not enforce deed restriction violations that are considered internal to the home. I asked who did and they told me it’s the developers responsibility. I asked who I could contact and they transferred me. I asked the individual I was transferred to if he was a representative of the developer, and his response was I am the developer. I then explained the situation in our neighborhood and referenced the two deed restrictions I believed were being violated. He responded that based on my description two deed restrictions were in fact being violated. I then asked what steps were necessary to have the operation shut down. That’s when the backpedaling began. I was told how difficult it is to gather proof of violations and enforce internal deed restrictions as homeowners typically don’t respond to inquiries or aren’t truthful in their responses. It’s easy to see a little white cross on someone’s property, but difficult to prove they are running a rental operation inside the home while simultaneously living there. I mentioned that it’s easy to identify an AirBnB, simply go the the website and see the listing. As I talked with this individual it became very clear that pursuing this any further was an effort in futility as they have made a conscious effort not to enforce these deed restriction violations. As has been previously stated in this thread, the deed restrictions say that violations may be enforced, not that they shall be or are required to be enforced. One can speculate about the motives behind the developer’s decision to not enforce these violations, but they clearly acknowledged the violations and have chosen to exercise their right to not enforce them. In my opinion, selective enforcement totally discredits the whole intent of having deed restrictions at all.

So anyone living in close proximity to one of these poorly run businesses has two hopes. First, the homeowner suddenly decides being a good neighbor is more important than generating income from their home, or they have a conscience and don’t want to knowingly violate deed restrictions even though said violations are not enforced. Second, the deed restrictions are enforced, which appears won’t happen. The only way I can reasonably see the deed restriction violations possibly being enforced would be if another third party is charged with the responsibility of enforcement, or if new homebuyers, in large numbers, express hesitation of purchasing new homes to their Villages sales representatives because of the out of control short term rental situation.

Hopefully this information will shed some light on the situation : )

ton80 06-10-2023 10:16 AM

How Far Must an LPG Fired Grille be Located from a Wall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JGibson (Post 2225214)
Does anyone know how far a barbecue grill has to be from your exterior wall?

The next-door CYV which turned into a monthly rental has the barbeque grill right up against my wall in a CYV.

I’m gonna tell the owner when I can locate her to move it to her side of the wall.
The smoke and grease are getting all over my wall.

I said on page 2 I will be the biggest PITA if her tenants turn this into some timeshare/college dormitory kind of thing.

Especially after she said she doesn't care about neighbors who don't like the rentals.

Her first tenant I had to chase away from my window because he was smoking and coughing his brains out at 5 am with the smoke coming into my window.

As someone with COPD, I don't need this.

This CYV design of curved driveways and having to go into the neighbor's backyard to clean my exterior wall is starting to become a headache.

I’m glad I didn't invest a lot into the inside of the house because it seems like the renters are gonna win and I may have to move.

I would suggest you request that the Fire COmpany come out and examine the situation and get their advice. General recommendations (NFPA) are 3 ft from a wall presumably fireproof and 10 ft from combustible materials. Once you get this information and there is a presumed violation, I suggest you go to CDD community standards and submit a violation. They should contact the Owner and address the issue.

Good Luck

OrangeBlossomBaby 06-10-2023 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2225241)
I’ll answer this the best I can, addressing deed restrictions only but not local, state, or federal law. Unfortunately, I felt a need to learn about this because a very poorly run AIRBnB was being operated in close proximity to our home (fortunately the woman running the neighborhood disrupting operation has moved away).

First, let’s talk rentals where the owner of the home is not concurrently living there. There are no restrictions, even for renting by the hour. If you live next to one of these, you are basically SOL. The only protection you have is the hope that the homeowner wants to be a good neighbor, carefully screens their tenants, and rents longer term.

Second, let’s talk rentals where the homeowner rents out space in their home while simultaneously living there. Two deed restrictions come into play in this scenario. A home shall be used as a single family residence and a business shall not be run out of the home. Both of these deed restrictions do not specifically refer to rentals, so an interpretation of the intent of the restrictions is required.

Let’s discuss each restriction:

The intent of single family use is to insure exactly that. It is entirely reasonable for homeowners to have non family member guests visit and stay in their homes. I have some golf buddies that visit for a few days once or twice a year. They are not paying to stay there and are not a revolving door of non stop customers with no other connection to the homeowners other than an income source. Most importantly, occasional visiting guests are not detrimental to the neighborhood and the quality of the neighbor’s lifestyle.

The intent of restricting running a business from one’s home is also an attempt to insure an operation is not detrimental to the neighborhood and the quality of the neighbor’s lifestyle. Someone working from their home on line, who does not carry business inventories or have customers coming and going from their home clearly doesn’t fall within the intent of the restriction. On the other hand, someone running a revolving door rental operation, for profit, with renters (paid business customers) constantly coming and going, creating parking issues, and making excessive noise, certainly does fall within the intent of the restriction.

I get it that both of these deed restrictions are subject to reasonable interpretation of their intent. Given that, I couple years ago I calling community standards to report a poorly run AIRBnB operation in my neighborhood. They informed me that they do not enforce deed restriction violations that are considered internal to the home. I asked who did and they told me it’s the developers responsibility. I asked who I could contact and they transferred me. I asked the individual I was transferred to if he was a representative of the developer, and his response was I am the developer. I then explained the situation in our neighborhood and referenced the two deed restrictions I believed were being violated. He responded that based on my description two deed restrictions were in fact being violated. I then asked what steps were necessary to have the operation shut down. That’s when the backpedaling began. I was told how difficult it is to gather proof of violations and enforce internal deed restrictions as homeowners typically don’t respond to inquiries or aren’t truthful in their responses. It’s easy to see a little white cross on someone’s property, but difficult to prove they are running a rental operation inside the home while simultaneously living there. I mentioned that it’s easy to identify an AirBnB, simply go the the website and see the listing. As I talked with this individual it became very clear that pursuing this any further was an effort in futility as they have made a conscious effort not to enforce these deed restriction violations. As has been previously stated in this thread, the deed restrictions say that violations may be enforced, not that they shall be or are required to be enforced. One can speculate about the motives behind the developer’s decision to not enforce these violations, but they clearly acknowledged the violations and have chosen to exercise their right to not enforce them. In my opinion, selective enforcement totally discredits the whole intent of having deed restrictions at all.

So anyone living in close proximity to one of these poorly run businesses has two hopes. First, the homeowner suddenly decides being a good neighbor is more important than generating income from their home, or they have a conscience and don’t want to knowingly violate deed restrictions even though said violations are not enforced. Second, the deed restrictions are enforced, which appears won’t happen. The only way I can reasonably see the deed restriction violations possibly being enforced would be if another third party is charged with the responsibility of enforcement, or if new homebuyers, in large numbers, express hesitation of purchasing new homes to their Villages sales representatives because of the out of control short term rental situation.

Hopefully this information will shed some light on the situation : )

There are other ways to curtail the revolving door tenancy, as I mentioned. TAXES. Anyone renting a property MUST pay tourism taxes to the county. In addition, ZONING. If it's assessed as a single-family residential property, and it's being used as a vacation rental property, then it needs to be reassessed as such. This also affects Property Taxes, not merely tourism taxes. Once it's assessed as a vacation rental property, it falls under a different category for property taxes.

You can call the county and/or town to find out the details, but that would be the first stop, in my opinion.

A little more digging could get you more relief: if the person who owns the house, has their vehicle registered in Florida. but you know they are hardly ever here and is using this property as their excuse to have the lower taxes and insurance costs for their vehicle - a phone call to the local DMV and/or tax office could give the homeowner a nudge in the right direction.

Lastly, peaceful protest is a thing. It has been for many years. As long as you are on public property and not private property and (thanks Florida government) not in front of someone's house, you can picket. You could go to the Sumter County courthouse or other public property, and protest the Villages LLC (the responsible party with regards to internal deed restrictions) refusing to enforce the deed restrictions. You can also bring it up with the CDD, since they are the go-betweens between the residents of a district and the Villages LLC (the ones who are supposed to be enforcing the deed restrictions).

You could protest financially too - refuse to pay your amenity fees, or reduce the payment. A final way to protest, the most drastic, would be to gather all like-minded people together, who are in a financially sound position, and sell all your OWN homes for $1 to homeless people.

And then move somewhere else. That would likely cause the rest of the community to force change. Or turn The Villages into a dump. Either way, you wouldn't be there anymore so it would no longer matter to you.

Happydaz 06-10-2023 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justjim (Post 2225233)
No problem unless a house or villa in your back yard is turned into a motel/hotel.

Daily rentals are a fact in The Villages. This is what a motel/hotel used to be for. I see realtors in The Villages buying up Villas and even designer homes to rent out. Over the ten years we have been here it seems as though the number of rentals in the area has increased. The number of one day or multiple day rentals appears to make up the largest part of this trend. A 3 month rental to a retired couple from Nebraska is not a problem. It is the 3 day rental to three families on vacation. The reports from South of 44 seem to indicate that real estate investors may be buying a larger share of Village homes. Just look at all the out of state, large real estate developers who are building high rise (5+stories) apartment complexes and large tracts of small rental homes. The market has changed and different people are buying property here, in my observation. Someone with more information may be aware of the percentage of short term rentals today compared to prior years.

Normal 06-10-2023 11:02 AM

Simple Answer
 
Just pass a comprehensive rental law like other Florida communities have. Get rid of short term rentals. It can and has been done in several cities. Wildwood would benefit from restrictions anyway. Several developments are popping up and would benefit from new laws in Sumter County.

blueash 06-10-2023 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2224880)
Of course all US citizens must be able to read and write in English.

Of course this is wrong like so many other statements of "facts" on this website. We have certainly well over several millions of US citizens who are neither able to read nor write English. Some cannot read nor write any language.

But we have suggestions that if people speak Spanish they must not be US citizens and a way to handle the Spanish speaking renters is to call ICE and the news media. I do wonder where all this hate of immigrants comes from... nah, I know where.

When all the undocumented workers leave Florida, I don't want to see you all whining about how much food costs and how impossible it has become to get workers in essential industries like construction and farming and restaurants and roofing and yard care and .....

Normal 06-10-2023 11:22 AM

Thank You
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2225262)
Of course this is wrong like so many other statements of "facts" on this website. We have certainly well over several millions of US citizens who are neither able to read nor write English. Some cannot read nor write any language.

But we have suggestions that if people speak Spanish they must not be US citizens and a way to handle the Spanish speaking renters is to call ICE and the news media. I do wonder where all this hate of immigrants comes from... nah, I know where.

When all the undocumented workers leave Florida, I don't want to see you all whining about how much food costs and how impossible it has become to get workers in essential industries like construction and farming and restaurants and roofing and yard care and .....

Thanks for clearing that up!

It should be phrased as All “naturalized “ US citizens (exception special needs, physically impaired or over 55) must be able to read and write in English. 😀

BrianL99 06-10-2023 11:40 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2225260)
Just pass a comprehensive rental law like other Florida communities have. Get rid of short term rentals. It can and has been done in several cities. Wildwood would benefit from restrictions anyway. Several developments are popping up and would benefit from new laws in Sumter County.

That would work great, other than Florida has a Statute that prevents Cities and Towns from prohibiting STR's, unless it was already done 11-12 years ago.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine

BrianL99 06-10-2023 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2225236)
In case it confused you, I used the word "resident" to mean an individual occupying the home over a period of time and not just the body within the home at a specific moment.


I'm not confused, I've been doing it for a living for 35 years.

"Resident" and "Occupant" are 2 different animals.

& since this thread started, you've changed your position at least 3 times. Perhaps it would behoove you to use the links I provided you with, to become familiar with how land use regulations, restrictions and covenants work, as well as who can enforced them.

Just trying to be helpful, but you can only lead a horse to water ...

Escape Artist 06-10-2023 11:50 AM

Has the OP chimed in again or did they just throw it out there like chum in the water to watch the feeding frenzy ensue? I wish we had more details and clarification on this story because it does have a potential impact on all who live in TV.

There’s been many threads recently on what is allowed in terms of renting out homes to those who are not 55+ or rentals with a high turnover rate. When I rented, which I did on several occasions, the homeowner or property manager wanted occupants renting for at least a week or more typically, a month.

No one wants to live next door to a motel, that’s not why we reside in TV. It’s ironic that there are so many strict rules about guests or those who are not residents using amenities like golf courses or the pools, yet provisions have not been made for things like this which can negatively affect affect quality of life and home values.

oldtimes 06-10-2023 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2225277)
That would work great, other than Florida has a Statute that prevents Cities and Towns from prohibiting STR's, unless it was already done 11-12 years ago.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine

Revised in 2014 to restore power to regulate, but not power to prohibit.

golfing eagles 06-10-2023 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2225184)
Singe-family zoning likely means no apartment buildings and maybe no duplexes though the existence of the lofts at Brownwood would argue against that. I did not find any mention of single-family in my restrictions. I may have missed it and most restrictions differ in some way so maybe that is a requirement in others.

I have to believe that I am allowed to have friends visit so single-family cannot prohibit overnight guests who are not related. At some point an extended stay becomes a residency but my guess is that anything less than 30 days (maybe even 90 days) would not be an issue.

My restrictions have a long paragraph on at least one resident being 55 years of age. Within that paragraph there are exceptions for ages 19-55 residing in a home without one resident over 55 as long as the number of these homes does not exceed 20% of all homes. 20% of all homes is a very large number and a renter is likely not considered a resident.

All the above and the section 8 or flop house question depend on enforcement. The Developer should be able to enforce the rules at the time of sale (keeping 55+ owners in 80% or more of all homes) and they certainly have the right to enforce the deed restrictions after the sale. However, either the restrictions do not prohibit rentals or no one, including the Developer, is sufficiently interested to attempt to enforce a rental prohibition.

Note: IANAL (as has been point out), these are just my thoughts after reading the restrictions and observing what is happening

Again, this is not my field of expertise, but I think that zoning is not something in deed compliance, it is determined by the county/city. And "single family" doesn't mean no guests, but once money is exchanged, I think the narrative changes.

Normal 06-10-2023 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2225289)
Again, this is not my field of expertise, but I think that zoning is not something in deed compliance, it is determined by the county/city. And "single family" doesn't mean no guests, but once money is exchanged, I think the narrative changes.

Once money is exchanged the recipient is termed a customer by law. It is a legal business transaction. In addition, if any contract is signed with a mediating authority or is established, the contract signifies a completed business transaction. This can be done on paper or through electronic communication. Oral or verbal contracts are tougher to enforce if they aren’t witnessed. Yes, you are correct.

tophcfa 06-10-2023 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happydaz (Post 2225249)
The reports from South of 44 seem to indicate that real estate investors may be buying a larger share of Village homes.

Ding, ding, ding, bingo! The double jeopardy question that corresponds to the above answer is: Why has the developer made a conscious decision to not enforce deed restrictions regarding rentals?

Bill14564 06-10-2023 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2225309)
Ding, ding, ding, bingo! The double jeopardy question that corresponds to the above answer is: Why has the developer made a conscious decision to not enforce deed restrictions regarding rentals?

choose any/all that may apply:
  • difficult
  • expensive
  • time conuming
  • bad for business
  • not prohibited by the restrictions
  • unenforceable

The Developer is in the business of selling houses, not making it harder for himself by chasing away potential buyers.

JMintzer 06-10-2023 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2225262)
Of course this is wrong like so many other statements of "facts" on this website. We have certainly well over several millions of US citizens who are neither able to read nor write English. Some cannot read nor write any language.

But we have suggestions that if people speak Spanish they must not be US citizens and a way to handle the Spanish speaking renters is to call ICE and the news media. I do wonder where all this hate of immigrants comes from... nah, I know where.

When all the undocumented workers leave Florida, I don't want to see you all whining about how much food costs and how impossible it has become to get workers in essential industries like construction and farming and restaurants and roofing and yard care and .....

You're right. OBB should never have made those assumptions... Very hateful...

As to the point you made about workers... Maybe if we had some sort of "Temporary Worker Visa Program"... Oh, wait...


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