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  #1  
Old 02-27-2011, 08:41 AM
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Default What we can and can't do?

I got to thinking this morning about the relay for life being banned from The Villages.

I'm not accusing, I'm just asking.

What exactly is the form of governance and authority that the developer has? True enough, they developed 12 X 12 miles of residential lots and facilities. Residents purchased their own property and they own it. Indeed we all signed and agreed to certain covenants. The various buildings are owned and operated by various developer companies or districts. Most of the streets are public property. The Villages is located in three separate Florida counties, those counties are located in a bonafied state, all of which are in The United States of America.

As American citizens, have residents of the Villages given up any of their rights of freedom of expression? I'm serious here, do the developers have the legal or moral right to tell residents what charity they can support in and around their homes? If Relay for Life had gotten a parade permit for one of the county roads inside The Villages, could the Developer have blocked it? If a whole neighborhood had banned together and said, "use our street and our homes and property for the Relay for Life," could it still have been banned.

I'm not speaking against the Moffitt Cancer Center, I'm talking about the right of Americans to support what they choose to support. If anybody knows what authority there is to mandate or forbid certain charitable activities, I am curious to know. I would have to guess that the developer knew that there would be a gigantic backlash because of this. I'm wondering if they care?

How many freedoms are you willing to give up to live in The Villages? Am I chasing ghosts here? Is it not a concern to most that there is a form of dictation as to what you can support and not support?

JLK
  #2  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:52 AM
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I might not have this correct, but wasn't it more of it taking place on property owned by the builder? Wouldn't that right be his/hers/theirs, to forbid any event on their property?

In theory, I guess if one could get a permit to hold an event on their property, I don't think it could be stopped just because. Getting the permit is the fly in the ointment...too many criteria to be met when you're talking about the number of people who might attend.
Coming from a development that was owned for a number of years by the builder, even with residents living in certain areas, this doesn't seem much different.
At build out, things changed in our development, though we only had about 5 acres of common land, but here, there will still be lots of property that is builder owned.

If I'm all off on this TH, just tell me, I'm still not fully awake!
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:54 AM
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If it is a matter of it being held on property owned by The Developer, he is totally within his rights to choose.

I guess I was getting the impression that it couldn't be held anywhere in The Villages.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:00 AM
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Today, 05:20 AM
Dorothy Hardee
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Leesburg, FL
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Please know that the Relay For Life of the Villages of Hope WILL take place, April 29-30, 2011!

For more information please visit our event website at relayforlife.org/thevillagesfl

You may also call or email me at Dorothy.Hardee@cancer.org or 352.326.9599 x 5706.

Join us for the next team party on Thursday, March 3, 2011 @ 5:30 PM!
  #5  
Old 02-27-2011, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talk Host View Post
I got to thinking this morning about the relay for life being banned from The Villages.

I'm not accusing, I'm just asking.

What exactly is the form of governance and authority that the developer has? True enough, they developed 12 X 12 miles of residential lots and facilities. Residents purchased their own property and they own it. Indeed we all signed and agreed to certain covenants. The various buildings are owned and operated by various developer companies or districts. Most of the streets are public property. The Villages is located in three separate Florida counties, those counties are located in a bonafied state, all of which are in The United States of America.

As American citizens, have residents of the Villages given up any of their rights of freedom of expression? I'm serious here, do the developers have the legal or moral right to tell residents what charity they can support in and around their homes? If Relay for Life had gotten a parade permit for one of the county roads inside The Villages, could the Developer have blocked it? If a whole neighborhood had banned together and said, "use our street and our homes and property for the Relay for Life," could it still have been banned.

I'm not speaking against the Moffitt Cancer Center, I'm talking about the right of Americans to support what they choose to support. If anybody knows what authority there is to mandate or forbid certain charitable activities, I am curious to know. I would have to guess that the developer knew that there would be a gigantic backlash because of this. I'm wondering if they care?

How many freedoms are you willing to give up to live in The Villages? Am I chasing ghosts here? Is it not a concern to most that there is a form of dictation as to what you can support and not support?

JLK
It is the Golden Rule here. He who has the gold makes the rules. This is NOT a democratic form of government.

There are some who get annoyed at the deed restrictions which many of us have lived with in other places, I like those rules.

I think there is also the whole issue that the Morses are very rich and very successful and very Republican and that sets some people off to begin with. I have no problem with that.

And then there is the Moffitt issue and the poaching issue. The Morses absolutely made a VERY wrong decision on not allowing the Relay for Life as they always have done in the past and denied it because the money collected would not go to Moffitt. (Whether or not the Morses would directly benefit financially from Moffitt is going to be argued and argued and argued) It is obvious to me that power corrupts. And on the poaching issue, in my book breaking laws is breaking laws. You can't do it and if you do it you are wrong.

That said, on the question whether the American people in The Villages have given up their right to self expression and to be justifiably outraged about the Relay for Life being cancelled because the Morses wanted the whole pot to go to Moffitt, they have not given up the right to express their anger and disappointment and disapproval. It just is that there isn't anything we residents can do about it other than to sell and leave or for people to read about it and to not buy here.

The fact that the developer can dictate something like this is in his power to do so. If we know that going in, than we voted with out pocketbook. If it is a deal breaker, than we can choose to not buy here or leave.

We can talk about it and we can talk about it and we can talk about it, but if we stay....than that is saying that we like this place and this life more than we hate what the Morses do/did and will do.

Just my take.

I am standing back.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:13 AM
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Unfortunately, for some of us Relay for Life off of TV property is just not feasible. And the issue was never that there would be no RFL but that it would be in TV itself.

TH, the developer can't legally stop us from having anything on public streets IF we can get the necessary permits. It was not the developer who said no to RFL at the high school, but the high school itself. The developer just said that if we wanted to have it in TV and use TV property (rec centers, polo grounds, bandstands ...), the proceeds would have to be shared. So, we have lost no freedoms. We have never had the right to hold whatever rallies we wanted at the town squares (think Dem. candidates) or to close off a street for an event without permission/permits. It's not just a matter of what the developer wants (although I'm sure that if the Morses don't want something, the permits are not going to happen), it's a matter of public safety that proper permits are issued and planning occur.

So, what rights have we given up by living here? We can, as individuals, speak up in almost any venue (just don't yell "fire" in a theater) and we do. We are free to walk wherever it is safe and legal. If we don't like some of the covenants and restrictions, we're free to live north of 466 or the historic section where there are less C&Rs or we're free to live outside of TV and just enjoy some of the amenities. Heck, we're even free to carry a weapon almost everywhere.
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  #7  
Old 02-27-2011, 10:47 AM
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Talk Host - Relay for Life gives all the donated money to American Cancer Society. Their main feature (after about 25% of donations going to fundraising costs) is research. Fine group but it is not for local treatment of patients. American Cancer Society stated they would give no funds at all to the Moffitt Center. Basically, we give money to Relay for Life and get nothing local for it.

If a person wants to contribute directly to American Cancer Society, send them a check. There are still some Relay for Life functions going on at The Villages, as stated above in another post.

No one is forcing you to give to any certain charity - or to any charity at all.
  #8  
Old 02-27-2011, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by redwitch View Post
Unfortunately, for some of us Relay for Life off of TV property is just not feasible. And the issue was never that there would be no RFL but that it would be in TV itself.

TH, the developer can't legally stop us from having anything on public streets IF we can get the necessary permits. It was not the developer who said no to RFL at the high school, but the high school itself. The developer just said that if we wanted to have it in TV and use TV property (rec centers, polo grounds, bandstands ...), the proceeds would have to be shared. So, we have lost no freedoms. We have never had the right to hold whatever rallies we wanted at the town squares (think Dem. candidates) or to close off a street for an event without permission/permits. It's not just a matter of what the developer wants (although I'm sure that if the Morses don't want something, the permits are not going to happen), it's a matter of public safety that proper permits are issued and planning occur.

So, what rights have we given up by living here? We can, as individuals, speak up in almost any venue (just don't yell "fire" in a theater) and we do. We are free to walk wherever it is safe and legal. If we don't like some of the covenants and restrictions, we're free to live north of 466 or the historic section where there are less C&Rs or we're free to live outside of TV and just enjoy some of the amenities. Heck, we're even free to carry a weapon almost everywhere.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:58 AM
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If it was the high school that disallowed the relay for life on that property, then The Developer is blameless.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:15 AM
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It seems that TV residents are allowed to support what they want, even hold fundraiser events within TV. If you go to the Walk for Life website you will find the Wisconsin Club held a pancake breakfast fundraiser yesterday at Havana Restaurant.

relayforlife.org/thevillagesfl
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:16 AM
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If it was the high school that disallowed the relay for life on that property, then The Developer is blameless.
According to Wiki, the officers listed for The Villages Charter Schools, Inc. include Gary Lester, Pete Wahl, John Wise, Tracy Mathews and C. Dale Borrowman. We all know who the first two are and the last three have quite a finger in the various companies owned by Morse. It would certainly not take a great leap to figure out why the high school denied use to Relay for Life.
  #12  
Old 02-27-2011, 11:31 AM
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Today, 05:20 AM
Dorothy Hardee
Junior Member

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Leesburg, FL
Posts: 7

Please know that the Relay For Life of the Villages of Hope WILL take place, April 29-30, 2011!

For more information please visit our event website at relayforlife.org/thevillagesfl

You may also call or email me at Dorothy.Hardee@cancer.org or 352.326.9599 x 5706.

Join us for the next team party on Thursday, March 3, 2011 @ 5:30 PM!
I won't be here or I would be involved. It is a shame that it is so late because many of us will be gone.

But I wish all of the teams success.
  #13  
Old 02-27-2011, 02:56 PM
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The Sumter County property records has The Villages of Lake Sumter (the developer) as the owner of the high school and the land it sits on and is assessed at 10.5 million.

Same ownersip for the Polo Grounds which I believe was an alternate site that was also denied.
  #14  
Old 02-27-2011, 03:30 PM
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Default Why do you think no good comes to locals from ACS?

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Talk Host - Relay for Life gives all the donated money to American Cancer Society. Their main feature (after about 25% of donations going to fundraising costs) is research. Fine group but it is not for local treatment of patients. American Cancer Society stated they would give no funds at all to the Moffitt Center. Basically, we give money to Relay for Life and get nothing local for it.

If a person wants to contribute directly to American Cancer Society, send them a check. There are still some Relay for Life functions going on at The Villages, as stated above in another post.

No one is forcing you to give to any certain charity - or to any charity at all.
As a former radiation therapy technologist I have seen huge strides in the treatment protocols and the survival outcomes in most forms of cancer in the past 30-40 years, This has come about from the research and compilation of data that the ACS does. Local doctors do not make up thier own treatment protocols. Successful protocols are passed around for all oncologists to use. This is the greatest thing about the ACS.

Nothing against the Moffit Center but if it did not occur in TV, we would still be able to receive good cancer care somewhere because, hopefully, the docs have kept up with the research, etc. If the ACS did not exist, it would still be hit or miss as to what treatment regime you receive. Many more people might have succumbed to this heinous disease

The ACS is responsible for finding a protocol for treatment for my 6 yo nephew who developed a very rare cell type of Lymphoma. He is one of 89 Americans with this disease. At the age of 13 he is considered cancer free, Praise God and the ACS, Sally
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Old 02-27-2011, 03:56 PM
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TH I happen to agree with your original premise. By hook or crook the Developer prevented the RFL because he was not going to share in the profits. I don't care whether or not RFL monies remain locally. The fact remains that RFL has been held annually to collect monies for cancer. So what is different this year? And by the way who pays the taxes to fund the schools? Something is rotten in Denmark. My convenant does not address issues such as this. I am surprised those who organized RFL didn't fight back based on the principles of freedom???? By the way didn't the Developer breach the convenant when he allowed those individuals living at Freedom Pointe, an institution not a part of The Villages, amenities at our facilities? I don't wish to upset anyone but I do not believe the people organizing and attending the RFL were doing the equivalent of yelling "fire" in a theatre. They were doing an honorable and unselfish act for people in great need. This is my personal view and I could be wrong and thus would invite any member to clear up any misunderstanding that I may have pertaining to this response.
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