Originally Posted by Janie123 (Post 2228650)

Just wondering… at what point do you think we will need to switch from a gas tax at the pump to tax per mile of driving? Currently there are approximately 1% of all cars on the road are EVs and in 2022 according to Car and Driver, in 2022, 4.6% of all new cars sold are EVs. By 2025 that number is looking to be 10% and by 2035, 35%. From a back of envelope calculation using some average numbers, 12000 miles of driving a year would be about $250 +/- in an annual tax for a standard passenger sedan.

Here’s my calculations… Let’s say for example all cars with 4 wheels and weigh between 2500 and 4000 pounds get 25 MPG. The average gas tax across the country is $.55 per gallon with CA being $.85 and MO being $.35 per gallon. Motorcycles and very light cars could pay less, larger cars/hummers/large pickups and cargo vans pay more as they do today because their MPG is much lower.

My suggestion would be to claim you mileage driven evert Yeager when you register your car and pay the tax at that time… no need for some sophisticated tracking system on each car. Of course, I’m sure the current Tesla and some of the others are already tracking miles driven.

Originally Posted by djplong (Post 2229030)

Someone asked "why?" about EVs... Well, 5 years ago, I took delivery of a 2018 Tesla Model 3, Long Range, rear Wheel Drive (the Dual Motor AWDs weren't out yet and nobody knew if they'd be out in time to still get the tax credit).

There are a LOT of reasons. If you're "into" all the green reasons, that's fine. For me, they're really "icing on the cake". The "green reasons" got me looking. The practical reasons made it an easy decision.

1) Price. At the time, the net price wasn't much more than a new ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) car. I won't lie - it's the most expensive car I've ever bought (though one car I bought in 1990 was more expensive if I factor inflation into things).

2) Finding Fuel. I put a level 2 charger (specifically a Tesla High Power Wall Connector) in my garage. This means that finding charging is a non-issue for me. And on long trips, I have the Supercharger network which was adequate for my needs in 2018 and has only gotten better since then. I've taken the car from my home in NH to Canada, Indiana, New York, Philly, DC, and Florida (several of those multiple times) without any issues whatsoever.

3) Cost of Fuel. I retired my Camry with 330,000 miles on it. I was getting just under 30MPG with it (round up to 30 to make the following math easier). Gas was around $3/gal here in 2018 (now closer to $3.50) so, roughly speaking, fuel for my Camry was $0.10/mile. In 2018, my electric power cost me $0.17/kWh on a 'renewables plan'. That one kWh can take my Tesla over 4 miles (about 4.5, but we'll round down). So my Tesla was costing me about 4 cents per mile to run - less than half what my Camry cost.

4) Maintenance and Repairs. No oil changes. No radiator flushes. No transmission servicing. No replacing worn out spark plugs, plug wires, fuel filters, serpentine/timing belts. Regenerative braking in my Tesla means my brakes, after 90,000 miles, are like new so no brake repair/replacement costs. Other things I've had to replace in previous cars would include the head gasket, valves, water pump, fuel pump, distributor cap, radiator (and hoses) and more. There's a LOT of money to be saved in not having to repair parts that your car doesn't have to say nothing of the lack of hassle since you're not having to make those maintenance appointments.

Even my insurance, for some unfathomable reason, went down.

Today's Tesla costs less than when I bought mine. How many cars can you say that about after 5 years? You can now get a Tesla for less than a Camry and there are other EVs that you can get for under $30K (like the Chevy Bolt but that one wouldn't work well in my use case).

Now, on a more personal level, I've put up solar panels on my home because of the ridiculous hike in energy prices last year - finally made it a no-brainer - and now the cost of fueling my car for anything less than a multi-day trip depends on how I amortize the cost of the 34 panels I have up there now. But I'm literally driving on sunshine now.

Every day I wake up to a "full tank of electrons". I've never been late for work and been forced to be even later because I forgot to get gas on the way home the previous night. The convenience is hard to quantify.

Then there's the car itself. It is the fastest, most powerful, most maneuverable, nimblest car I've ever had in my life (and I've had some turbocharged sports cars in my youth). Having the battery pack like a "skateboard" in the bottom puts all the weight down there and give you a very low center of gravity - making it far less likely to roll over. Tesla's safety ratings are the envy of the industry. One of their cars actually BROKE the machine trying to crush it (simulating a roll over accident).

The damn car updates itself. I've had all sorts of new features show up in the car after over-the-air updates. When I bought the car, I didn't have dash cam software, automatic windshield wipers, "Sentry mode" (where incidents around your car are recorded to a local hard drive), Dog Mode, Joe Mode, Netflix, Disney, YouTube (those last three are only available when parked) and so much more.

And this is all before we get to the Autopilot/Full Self Drive topic which can be the source of a lot of controversy, FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Disinformation) and misunderstanding.

So you don't have to get political to find reasons to be on the EV bandwagon. But, if I may be permitted a LITTLE bit of opinion... Even before I put the panels on my roof, I was much happier to give money to a local utility than paying an oil conglomerate to pollute the planet (I'm old enough to remember a LOT of smog in my youth). Even so, that wasn't the first reason I bought the car - you can see all the others above.

Originally Posted by Toymeister (Post 2228795)

Lower cost of operation: fuel and maintenance

For some : better performance

To figure the mpg: the MPGe is how many miles per electric equivalent of a gallon of gas. A gallon equivalent is 33.7kwh or at SECO pricing $4.38 Using my MPGe of 121 my fuel cost is .036 per mile. Using the 2023 average MPG of 24.2 that is the equivalent of gasoline at .867.

Now would you like gas at 86 cents a gallon?

Cost: in my case I have a plug in hybrid which costs more. But the pay back is 63k e-miles. It is an easy decision to make. In the case of other models the payback can be even shorter.

Originally Posted by Janie123 (Post 2228650)

Just wondering… at what point do you think we will need to switch from a gas tax at the pump to tax per mile of driving? Currently there are approximately 1% of all cars on the road are EVs and in 2022 according to Car and Driver, in 2022, 4.6% of all new cars sold are EVs. By 2025 that number is looking to be 10% and by 2035, 35%. From a back of envelope calculation using some average numbers, 12000 miles of driving a year would be about $250 +/- in an annual tax for a standard passenger sedan.

Here’s my calculations… Let’s say for example all cars with 4 wheels and weigh between 2500 and 4000 pounds get 25 MPG. The average gas tax across the country is $.55 per gallon with CA being $.85 and MO being $.35 per gallon. Motorcycles and very light cars could pay less, larger cars/hummers/large pickups and cargo vans pay more as they do today because their MPG is much lower.

My suggestion would be to claim you mileage driven evert Yeager when you register your car and pay the tax at that time… no need for some sophisticated tracking system on each car. Of course, I’m sure the current Tesla and some of the others are already tracking miles driven.

Originally Posted by shaw8700@outlook.com (Post 2229130)

What about the old batteries? Where do you dispose of them? Don’t they affect the earth?

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye (Post 2229305)

There’s more to the story than what you’re telling us. Most people can’t afford a EV. Our present president said when EV’s are mandatory in 2030 they’ll cost about $40,000. More than the same car today. Seriously you think EV’s are cheaper to maintain, guess you haven’t bought a lithium battery yet. I don’t disagree with everything you said but you’re not telling the working stiffs the whole story. So I’ll let it go & we’ll find out later in the future!

Originally Posted by Bill1701 (Post 2228854)

My guess is never. It would involve a whole new system and the government is notorious for being bad at developing new systems that work.