Talk of The Villages Florida - Why All The Animus On This Site ?

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Gracie : I very much respect you and the special touch which you always bring to this site . However I am convinced that there are many who read the comments and do not share because of the concerns which I have expressed .
While clearly not a valid survey the 16 PMs I have received tonight would suggest that there are many who agree with my point of view and wish that the overall tone and civility were different .

I appreciate this dialoge. I am new to this site. I do like it because it can be very informative, especially when you are new to The Villages. I just bought my house in September and I am renting it, so I appreciate the problems that may arise so I don't panic when it does happen...example I read about the plumbing problems in Collier (where my house is) so when my tenant wrote to tell me there was a plumbing problem, I was aware of it and didn't panic. On the other hand, I have posted a couple of questions and some of the responses were very sarcastic and ridiculing. I have been quite shy to post other questions I have. So thank you for bringing attention to sarcastic responders, I've actually been considering doing that myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovetv (Post 784086)

I don't think we're "pro-developer" as much as we are pro productivity, pro solvency, pro visionary, pro job-producing, pro revitalization, pro community, pro hometown atmosphere, pro consumer confidence, pro housing market, pro new local healthcare model which he's financing, etc.

Our support is in the goals and results accomplished well, not in a purveyor of ideology that results in little or no practicality.

Agree ilovetv. I really do not see that much sarcasm coming from anti-developer posters on TOTV. Once in a while, yes, but not all that often. I have found the TOTVers I have met in person quite friendly and straightforward and have been on TOTV since July 2007.

As to some things that have bothered me over the years I have been in the Villages. This is since late June of 2005.

If you do not like the Villages Daily Sun , you can buy another newspaper. They are starting to get more Lionsgate movies here in the Villages which was one of the things that bothered me. I had to go to Belleview for instance to see The Hunger Games as they would not show it here as it was a Lionsgate film. It did seem that one of the reasons they would not show Lionsgate movies was that they would they also have to show other Lionsgate movies like those of a certain flinty film maker which are also distributed by Lionsgate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo Jim (Post 784060)

As no doubt you can tell from my comments that I more than find it discouraging and frankly if I had spent time on this site as I was considering making such a major move I might well have decided otherwise .
It seems that anyone who might feel contrary to the majority attitude of the Posters on this site that they quickly get trashed such that they decide to not participate . This I submit is the usual tyranny of the minority which has become so pervasive in our society .

As one who as been thrashed, I applaud your guts for this post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DianeM (Post 784115)

As one who as been thrashed, I applaud your guts for this post.

Still have a problem with this whole thread. Most of top Ten posters on TOTV are very much supporters of the Villages. They have various quirks but seem to love being here in the Villages. I certainly miss it quite a bit when away usually in Palm Harbor, FL which often has horrific traffic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo Jim (Post 784007)

Ok . Here goes after living here for now 2+ years and observing this site everyday I am just going to put myself " out there " and say it .

I only can hope and pray that I remain strong enough to deal with what will be coming back at me .

I relocated here from the Buffalo Ny area just over 2 years ago . I learned about the Villages when an old friend had decided to retire here after losing his wife to cancer . He came here after a couple of years in Texas . I came down to help him move in in July of 2010 and discovered for myself that it was / is a most amazing place .

As a life long Northern resident I never really considered moving to Florida full time . However having recently gone through an ugly and painful divorce from my Trophy wife who is much younger and had no more use for me 2 weeks after I retired I felt that perhaps this would be the right place for me .

I was well known in my area and involved in many charities and was still very active but the pain was too much .

Had I been aware of this site and read it for any period of time I most likely would have thought several times about moving here . This is the truth .
[B] Had I judged the Villages through the " prism " of constant complaining and warnings about this and that day after day I would have thought --- " humm this must not be what I seem to see through my eyes ". [/B] Why are the majority of people who post here so miffed , unhappy , sarcastic and seemingly just so miserable ??? Why do so many people harbor such animosity toward the Developer ?
There are so many other choices of retirement communities in Florida . Why would those who seem to be so unhappy stay . Homes sell quickly here and prices have been quite strong so why stay ?
Why do so many people " pile on " when someone posts pretty much anything positive about the Villages . Why ? Perhaps it is because the writers can do so anonymously . I can`t help wonder what the landscape on this site would look like if everyone had to post their real name .
Just for what it is worth " The Buffalo News " -- when it went online allowed people to post with a handle . The remarks were amazingly caustic . After a year of much ugliness they changed their policy and one could only post under their own name . And yes , one had to go through a process to verify their name before being allowed to post . WOW what a sudden change in overall attitude and the quality of the comments !!!!
NOw back to the Developer . I was in commercial banking for 35 years and a senior exec for 20 of those years . For a few years I was a lender and then managed a lending team . I can say with great confidence that the Developer could have easily spent half as much as they have on the amenities in the Villages and even pocketed more money than they have and are . Seriously , they could have taken a much lower road than they have elected to .
Sometimes I conclude that despite what people express that they feel about our country being a land of unlimited opportunity for those with a better idea and the willingness to take a risk that the majority do not really feel that way .
Because if they meant it they would not begrudge the Developer of " his / their " success . However on this site day in and day out they do .
Some people take a huge risk in business and fail . We generally all know that 80% of all new business ventures fail .
There is a reason why 95% of us elected to make our living by working for others . I had a saying while I was working my 60 hour weeks and it went like this : " The majority of people would like to see their children become an exec at a large company but the same people hate the success of large companies ".
Think about it for just a minute . How many who are so quick to trash the Developer and any other business operating here ever ran a business and put your living at risk ? You should be sending this family thank you cards and saluting them . They are not evil . They are the embodiment of the American Dream .
I am certain that you are each concerned about the value of your homes but stop to think about the message about this community that many of you put out in public view day after day . The message is pretty much --- STAY AWAY ! My God -- a woman posted on here this week that she had a problem with a driver who she insisted was on their way to a Sarah Palin autograph . Really !!
I have a great driving record and I obey the speed limit . I have lost track of how many times I have been the victim of what I call " predatory driving " along with the " angry Male salute . You teach that to your grand-children ? Grow Up . I feel sorry for your spouses . How many years have they suffered ?
So continue to bitch about every dining experience --- too hot , too cold .
Wet all over the Mens Room , toss your wet paper towels on the floor and blame the owner who is no doubt struggling to recoup his / her investment .And then complain that more business do not wish to come here . Do you think that an astute business person or company does not take note ? Really ?
I wish that I knew demographically where most of the bitching is coming from . I can only hope that it is not from " The Greatest Generation ". Frankly I suspect that much of it might just be from my so called generation " The Baby Boomers " who brought this country not much but whining and doing the least for the most and giving not much in return .
So here goes .
Have at It !!!

Jim:

I think your post was very heartfelt and I am sorry what happened to you, with your wife and child. I wish you peace and happiness. I have read almost everything on this site and my findings are, "there are many happy people, and people who will willing to help people". There are a few complainers, but I tend to ignore them, and go on my merry way. I don't let anyone rent space in my head. :D

As far as the developer, I am very thankful, he had the guts and vision to build such a paradise on earth. He's not perfect in everything he does, but he gets 99% of his idea's are right. His business acumen is great and he deserves every penny for his vision for building a beautiful place for us seniors to have fun and a healthy lifestyle. The IRS bond issue, is something many people are concerned about, but I for one, don't wory about it, when I think how beautiful this place is. The bond issue might get resolved long after we leave this earth. No one truly knows. IMHO

It's human nature for some people to bitch, but I take some things with a grain of salt and tend to look at the big picture of things. Life is too short to be unhappy. I like to welcome newbies to this site as it is informative and some people are so willing to help other people. All of us have families, but I for one appreciate the sense of community here on this site and around TV. This site is a great source of information especially the advice of those that have been here for a while, People have found contractors and services through the advice given, so they can make the transition easier. I am very grateful that I have found this site for the support given to me. I have made several friends in my life that are family to me, and I hope to continue this tradition here in TV.

I would like to think, about what I am trying to convey before I hit the submit button. When someone was annoying, I really thought about, "do I want to respond, and get myself all upset". My hope is you will stay on this site, as there are many wonderful people. You can always use the ignore feature if you don't want to see a certain person's posts.

Some people try to convey humor on this site that sometimes comes across as scarcasim, (spelt wrong), oops. The printed word leaves something to be desired. Even when I agree to disagree with someone, I do it respectfully. Not everyone will agree on everything. I try to help newbies and welcome them to this site. If I have offended anyone, I would be the first to apologize. Stick around, and you get to know the people better, and know where they are coming from. It will help as you will see the attempts at humor, are not meant to hurt anyone.

I agree some people may not have the patience or the ability to be concise when posting, and we should all try to understand where they are coming from. Some people may not feel well and just convey those underlying thoughts, when posting. I try not to offend anyone, and when there is a misunderstanding, I found that clarifying one's position, turned into a friendship.

I think your post was excellent. Like Lincoln said, "people are as happy, as they make up their minds to be". :smiley:

Respectfully,

Joe

BTW - I have noticed the price of my homes value has skyrocketed in the few short months, after I bought. What I lost in trying to get here, will be made up with the escalating prices. I am a happy camper! :smiley:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DianeM (Post 784115)

As one who as been thrashed, I applaud your guts for this post.

I think that most of us are born viewing the glass as either half full or half empty.

Early on I thought the ones who were always gloom and doom had either had too much bad happen to them, or not enough.

Some of us were born with the ability to easily connect with other people and that great gift is a double edged sword, That sometimes means that we cannot fulfill all of the responsibilities of friendship to others in a way that we should and in a way they expect.

I think that all of us need to feel loved and important. That we want others to value and listen to what we say and some people seek the very attention they so need by being negative. Because to them, any attention, even if it be from irritation, or anger is better than the awful loneliness they are experiencing.

Sometimes, people need love most who are most unlovable.

Sometimes, not always, people hurt others because they are lacking in real caring feelings, or because they can, or because their anonymity allows them to get away with it. Or because they cannot see the humanness or worth in others. I also know as we age, we become more and more convinced that the conclusions we have come to are right and it takes a lot to be open to change or to allow other opinions to really allow us to be stirred up and admit to ourselves we were wrong.

I think that we all often stagger and fall and use the very gifts we were given to hurt or show how smart we are. This forum often points out to me that I have a lot to learn and I frequently act like a smart ass, until I see that it has hurt someone who is innocent and doesn't get me at all.

We need to try harder to be fair, accepting and helpful without being dishonest. Some friendships that were begun on this forum haven't worked out because the expectations we have for each other are unrealistic.

First we need to try to do no harm.

This lecture is for me primarily.

For quite awhile I have been reading the postings in Talk of The Villages. Very interesting. My postings have been hopefully helpful to people inquiring about the way things are in The Villages. I have been a resident for 10 years. The population is about three times what it was then.
There certainly are reasons to complain about how some incident occurred that you observed and I read your complaints. Mostly there is no reason to jump on your wagon.
Thanks for your observations. I agree with almost all of what you cite.
Deerfly

Dear Mr Buffalo Jim
After 2 trips to TV
I have found there to be absolutely no correlation between TOTV
and the TV.
I see you have live here for two years , I hope you have found the same.
I have one of those personality does not post well, so I have had to tone it down and post a lot less.

P.S. am I the only one that wants to see a photo of the trophy wife ? :1rotfl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo Jim (Post 784019)

Thanks the last time I took the risk of pointing out something positive about the Developer some person who calls them-self " Gomo " or something like that told me to " shut-up " and " butt -out " .

Nice very nice !

Buffalo Jim - Gomoho here - I was taken aback when I read your comment about me so I went back to your old posts and what actually occurred was on a post about people not being provided internet access during their LSV you made reference to the fact that you couldn't believe so many people would be involved in such a "trivial matter". I respectfully asked you to butt out if it didn't interest you and allow us to discuss what we wanted to.

If I were a little more computer savvy I would post the entire dialogue for your reading pleasure and the fact you referred to me as a left wing cat lover that probably worked for the government. By the way - wrong on all counts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo Jim (Post 784050)

Sorry but your emotion gets in the way of your point or points . Please clarify for the benefit of all .
As I undertsand it you are angry at the Developer because an author on a " book tour " came to an independent bookstore for a promotion and you know 100% that a person who drove poorly was rushing to attend said promotion .
The logic transcends all of my education and life experience so I humbly apologize .
Since the bookstore in question is a major US corporation and operated under a lease but otherwise independent of the Developer how could you manage to connect the dots to such a conclusion . It would really be helpful to know .
On the other hand I am certain if the Bookstore felt that they could hold a book promotion which is paid for by a publisher for just say a book called " The Audacity of Hope " or say " Dreams of My Father " [ who I never knew } I am certain that they would have done so .
Help me out here . Book tours are paid for by the publisher not Barnes and Noble or The Developer .
Your logic is scary .

I think the point was missed. My take was that anyone that could drive so bad must be stupid; hence, just like that said promotion. Birds of a feather don't ya know.

Jim, I'm happy to see you here. Not all people who post are bright, well-experienced, logical and thorough. Few are as bright as you are and some are just mean. Nothing will change that, but it often happens that those showing extreme idiocy and hatefulness are chastised by the regulars.

I agree your point that we have much for which to be grateful, yet we snivel and whine. TOTV offers an opportunity to feel connected to the community while sipping coffee in our pj's. Refreshing to see an intellectual post, in what is an important social medium...be gentle and play with us often.

I agree with most if not all of what you say. The one thing I would add is that there are some people who are nice and sweet here.
I have never understood the animosity toward the developer. Where I come from there is a family named Lindner. They have developed many things and are very well to do, So what, they earned it.
Here the developer got his money by developing an incredible retirement community to which people are flocking. In it we can live a life far better than many places in this country. Am I supposed to be upset about the quality of life he has provided for me?
I recently retired from TVRH as a chaplain. While I feel that the work I did there was incredibility helpful to the people to which I ministered, I was never paid anything near what the developer makes. Does this make me mad? No, I knew it going in. I provided a service to people who were in dire need and he provides a wonderful place to retire.
Maybe the problem here is that society values certain endeavors way higher than others. Sports greats make far more than great teachers, pastors and environmental workers. This is not because THEY value their occupation higher but because society values them higher. Why does a radiologist get paid way more than an internal medicine doc? Why, because we live in a capitalistic society.
It is what it is. I can always decide to move out of TV if I hate it here. We all can. Working hard all our lives has earned us the ability to retire here; it does not give us the "right" to anything we want or need. The feeling of entitlement that exists here is sometimes overwhelming.

Just MHO. Thanks

Wow - as a new, very part-time Villager I have very much enjoyed TOTV. From my perspective, the vast majority of the posts reflect individuals and couples who are absolutely thrilled with their homes and the lifestyle here in the Villages. Sure, there are some people who prefer to gripe and complain. I simply take those for what they are worth because I believe I am fully capable of forming my own opinions.

Jim - I appreciate your heartfelt concerns and I wish you much future happiness.

And my name is Jeannie Stahl. Village of Collier.

I think the biggest issue on TOTV is that what we say and what we write never seems to come out the same. Some attempts at humor are read by others as complaints. Some write about a major issue for them that is trivial to someone else. Some of us are always in a hurry and some of us never are.

We all have different reasons we do what we do and act as we act. And none of us are always effective at writing it down in a way that everyone reading it can understand what we really mean.

I remember a management class exercise where the instructor had us all read a short paragraph in a book where the author set up his main character. Then we had to write our own description, swap them and read them. You would have thought we all read something different.

I am sure it's the same on here. What we mean when we write is not how everyone else reads it.

So as correct as your original post is about developer bashing, perhaps we should all take it with a grain of salt and assume the issue is less then the words we read.

And if you really want to see digression of opinion, go read a few roundabout threads. Now those will really scare you.