[eweissenbach]

It seems to me that both viewpoints have merit and I enjoy hearing from differing viewpoints. There seems to me to be no doubt that the Schwartz, Morse team had a vision for a retirement community that no one else was able to realize. Because of their vision they have built an enterprise that has attracted some 130,000 mostly happy people and enriched the family immensely. Does this mean that they are above criticism or perfect? I think not! They are like most people, they have their flaws and their blindspots, but unlike most people, they have been wildly successful, and right far more often than they are wrong. I think that they are very good at what they do, and deserve the wealth they have earned, but that when they are wrong it should be pointed out and subject to criticism or even recourse. Those that see the developers as perfect seem to me to have a huge blindspot, as do those who see them as wicked and greedy. I see them as successful entrepreneurs who have filled a huge need with a marvelous product, but with some minor flaws which should be pointed out and addressed.

[Shbullet]

Originally Posted by Packer Fan

I agree, most of the criticism here is aimed at very specific issues in TV, not TV as a whole. Some people will throw in negative comments that are based in Jealousy, but we all know who they are and should ignore them.
If you want Negative, go on the Facebook pages dedicated to TV - there it is mostly people from out of state and locals around Lady Lake and from surrounding retirement communities - and they are horribly negative. Just bashing.
I actually dropped off of a few they were just so bad.
Ed

Agree! By the way Im also a Packer/Bucks/Brewers fan..Born and raised in Milw and now in Caledonia for the past 10 years. We are neighbors up north!

[Shbullet]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

It seems to me that both viewpoints have merit and I enjoy hearing from differing viewpoints. There seems to me to be no doubt that the Schwartz, Morse team had a vision for a retirement community that no one else was able to realize. Because of their vision they have built an enterprise that has attracted some 130,000 mostly happy people and enriched the family immensely. Does this mean that they are above criticism or perfect? I think not! They are like most people, they have their flaws and their blindspots, but unlike most people, they have been wildly successful, and right far more often than they are wrong. I think that they are very good at what they do, and deserve the wealth they have earned, but that when they are wrong it should be pointed out and subject to criticism or even recourse. Those that see the developers as perfect seem to me to have a huge blindspot, as do those who see them as wicked and greedy. I see them as successful entrepreneurs who have filled a huge need with a marvelous product, but with some minor flaws which should be pointed out and addressed.

What a perfect response..I agree with everything you wrote.. And i must say as delighted I am with the vision and overall community and it's success, Im equally bothered when some have a problem with those that use this forum to make others aware of problems that directly affect them. Both voices need to be loud and clear and free from harsh reply s.

[Packer Fan]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

It seems to me that both viewpoints have merit and I enjoy hearing from differing viewpoints. There seems to me to be no doubt that the Schwartz, Morse team had a vision for a retirement community that no one else was able to realize. Because of their vision they have built an enterprise that has attracted some 130,000 mostly happy people and enriched the family immensely. Does this mean that they are above criticism or perfect? I think not! They are like most people, they have their flaws and their blindspots, but unlike most people, they have been wildly successful, and right far more often than they are wrong. I think that they are very good at what they do, and deserve the wealth they have earned, but that when they are wrong it should be pointed out and subject to criticism or even recourse. Those that see the developers as perfect seem to me to have a huge blindspot, as do those who see them as wicked and greedy. I see them as successful entrepreneurs who have filled a huge need with a marvelous product, but with some minor flaws which should be pointed out and addressed.

I mostly agree with you. However, I don't know anybody who feels the developers are perfect. I have never heard anyone say that. I think the issue is with people who see them as horrible, greedy, stupid, etc. I think those of us who are big supporters - myself included - disagree with some things they do. Small criticism are ok, condemnation is not really called for regarding people who provide such a beautiful community for us all to enjoy.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by packer fan

i mostly agree with you. However, i don't know anybody who feels the developers are perfect. I have never heard anyone say that. I think the issue is with people who see them as horrible, greedy, stupid, etc. I think those of us who are big supporters - myself included - disagree with some things they do. Small criticism are ok, condemnation is not really called for regarding people who provide such a beautiful community for us all to enjoy.

bingo

[Bay Kid]

Thank God they created such a fabulous place to live. At least they earned every penny and then some.

[collie1228]

It seems to me that the level of problems here in The Villages is relatively minor. Compare our lifestyle with those in New York City with its high taxes and traffic, or Seattle or San Francisco with their out of control homelessness and high cost of living, or the Texas border towns who have had 250K of new uninvited citizens added to their communities this year already, and the Morse family's push for growth seems minor so far. Even with the push south, TV is still a great place to live.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by collie1228

It seems to me that the level of problems here in The Villages is relatively minor. Compare our lifestyle with those in New York City with its high taxes and traffic, or Seattle or San Francisco with their out of control homelessness and high cost of living, or the Texas border towns who have had 250K of new uninvited citizens added to their communities this year already, and the Morse family's push for growth seems minor so far. Even with the push south, TV is still a great place to live.

Sure is!

[Shambles]

Thanks for your comments. I owned small business for over thirty years so I can appreciate what the developers have done and continue to do here. After one "lifestyle weekend" I was sold on this place, bought a house and moved here two years ago. The Villages is expertly planned, beautifully landscaped, and meticulously maintained. I don't play golf but thoroughly enjoy the restaurants, music, and car scenes here.

I read the local forums and it seems that some people just try to THINK up stuff to complain about. Sure, there's room for improvement in some areas, but one would be hard pressed to find a better retirement community with a range of home prices and enforcement of covenants and rules. This, along with gated neighborhoods and security patrols, keeps crime low and property values high. Having always had large lots with either woods, water, or golf courses in my back yard, I was concerned about the close proximity of the houses here but this is the quietest, safest place I've ever lived. Developers, please keep up the good work!

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Why do people support the Developer / TV Concept,



and



Why do other people appear to want to negative and have a dislike for TV/The Developer???


So many times, threads get off of the OP's topic and turn into a debate on The Developers, The Villages' concept, personal attacks against the Developers and the personal support of the Developers.


The Moderators will give us some room here, but let's see if we can flush some of the thoughts / logic out prior to this thread being locked down.




Me????.................I have a lot of respect for the business people who risk their financial well being to develop/create something. ie: The Wright Brothers; Bill Gates; Ben Franklin; John Baird; Delbert Webb: Harley Davidson; as examples. Some got very rich, some did not. To me, that's the American Way.

Where are the Negative / Dislikers ????................The thread has been up for a week and the Debbie-Downers still have not told their side of the story. I know you are out there.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm thinking it's the whole "owe them a debt of gratitude" stuff most "negativers/dislikers" take issue with. Do any of you extol the virtues of George Jenkins? Do you post on public fora elsewhere about how you owe a debt of gratitude to William Milton Davis and his sons Artemus Darius Davis, James Elsworth Davis, Milton Austin Davis and Tine Wayne Davis? What about your debt of gratitude for Catherine de Medici?

Why don't I ever see any posts about any of these things in the appropriate threads? When you talk about how much you like Publix, Winn Dixie, or ice cream, you really should show your appreciation for these people who created these companies (and that product) that you claim to love so much. Or do you not also owe them a debt of gratitude? What of the inventor of velcro, or shoe laces? The guy who built the very first golf cart - when was the last time any of you kowtowed in reverence to him?

If you say because this is The Villages forum, I'll respond - there are hundreds of threads about supermarkets, ice cream, golf carts, and shoes. And in the dozens of threads on these topics I've actually read, I haven't once read a single post from anyone thanking the people who created the items/places of interest. Only the Morses get that honor, as if they were a pantheon to be worshipped. It's just kind of cheesy.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

I'm thinking it's the whole "owe them a debt of gratitude" stuff most "negativers/dislikers" take issue with. Do any of you extol the virtues of George Jenkins? Do you post on public fora elsewhere about how you owe a debt of gratitude to William Milton Davis and his sons Artemus Darius Davis, James Elsworth Davis, Milton Austin Davis and Tine Wayne Davis? What about your debt of gratitude for Catherine de Medici?

Why don't I ever see any posts about any of these things in the appropriate threads? When you talk about how much you like Publix, Winn Dixie, or ice cream, you really should show your appreciation for these people who created these companies (and that product) that you claim to love so much. Or do you not also owe them a debt of gratitude? What of the inventor of velcro, or shoe laces? The guy who built the very first golf cart - when was the last time any of you kowtowed in reverence to him?

If you say because this is The Villages forum, I'll respond - there are hundreds of threads about supermarkets, ice cream, golf carts, and shoes. And in the dozens of threads on these topics I've actually read, I haven't once read a single post from anyone thanking the people who created the items/places of interest. Only the Morses get that honor, as if they were a pantheon to be worshipped. It's just kind of cheesy.

I don't think cheesy is a valid word to use here. Perhaps baffling or confusing would be a more palatable word to me.

It is more a question of what people find valuable about life and about effort and about goals.

I don't think anyone glorifies or deifies or claims to love the Morse Family. We are respectful of being able to live well because of their good decisions and enjoy the physical beauty they have built and pleased that it is financially stable and successful for not only them and us but for a large group of people whose livelihoods depend on them and us.


what does cheesy mean - Bing

[ColdNoMore]

I believe those who have a knee-jerk reaction of attributing any criticism of The Developer to "jealousy"... have it absolutely backward.

Those who defer to, or defend, The Developer on almost everything, regardless of the topic or their actions...are actually the jealous ones.

Many of us who might criticize The Developer on occasion or express our opinion of what we think would make things better, but still love the majority of the things here and is why we choose to continue to live here, seem to instantly become the target of anger by suggesting that everything isn't always absolutely perfect.

It's almost like any criticism of Da Family, is received by some as if it were a direct personal attack...on someone's family member.

Why in the world is that?

Oftentimes, these same people who become so defensive also almost always automatically admire, or put on a pedestal, someone with a lot of money (provided they also meet certain other criteria)... regardless if that wealthy person exhibits honesty, ethics or integrity.

THAT worship of wealth and prosperity... is the "real jealousy."

And I'm not saying the family doesn't have those attributes, because I believe they probably do, but make no mistake as there is an obvious lack of understanding in some people that think The Developer has done everything they've done...due to some kind of altruism or out of the goodness of their hearts.

Hate to break the news to those types, but you are basically worshiping their ability to make money by building what they think will sell, the "extras" that help that selling and other decisions made purely out of a desire to milk every dollar from the development (a % of rent on businesses being an example of squeezing out every dollar).

And they've done a very admirable job of doing that, are reaping their well-earned rewards for such...so more power to them.

It's the American Dream...and they've reached it.

Those with the standard refrain of "you're just jealous of the money they've made" or the old standby "well, if you don't think everything is perfect, or you criticize something, you should just move," really need to take a step back and evaluate themselves...regarding why do you have such a visceral reaction to even the slightest criticism of The Developer?

Because in the final analysis, you personally...don't mean anything to them other than as a customer.

Their primary concern, as it rightfully is for ANY business, is making sure that their new houses (and any old ones that they list) and office/store space are filled by someone...anyone.

Be assured that the vast majority of the people on TOTV who may criticize something they don't like, or would like to change...are certainly NOT coming from a perspective of jealousy.

Any more than criticism of some ultra wealthy, mega-church leader...is coming from a position of jealousy.

It's a fact, that history is replete with examples of those who exhibited blind loyalty to a single person, or company, or organization... whose primary goal was to make money (or gain power).

And a lot of those stories...did not end well.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

It seems to me that both viewpoints have merit and I enjoy hearing from differing viewpoints. There seems to me to be no doubt that the Schwartz, Morse team had a vision for a retirement community that no one else was able to realize. Because of their vision they have built an enterprise that has attracted some 130,000 mostly happy people and enriched the family immensely. Does this mean that they are above criticism or perfect? I think not! They are like most people, they have their flaws and their blindspots, but unlike most people, they have been wildly successful, and right far more often than they are wrong. I think that they are very good at what they do, and deserve the wealth they have earned, but that when they are wrong it should be pointed out and subject to criticism or even recourse. Those that see the developers as perfect seem to me to have a huge blindspot, as do those who see them as wicked and greedy. I see them as successful entrepreneurs who have filled a huge need with a marvelous product, but with some minor flaws which should be pointed out and addressed.

I should have read your post first...as it would have saved me a lot of typing. LOL

You've basically said the same thing I just posted...but a lot more succinctly.

For that feat...my hat is off to you.

[photo1902]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

It seems to me that both viewpoints have merit and I enjoy hearing from differing viewpoints. There seems to me to be no doubt that the Schwartz, Morse team had a vision for a retirement community that no one else was able to realize. Because of their vision they have built an enterprise that has attracted some 130,000 mostly happy people and enriched the family immensely. Does this mean that they are above criticism or perfect? I think not! They are like most people, they have their flaws and their blindspots, but unlike most people, they have been wildly successful, and right far more often than they are wrong. I think that they are very good at what they do, and deserve the wealth they have earned, but that when they are wrong it should be pointed out and subject to criticism or even recourse. Those that see the developers as perfect seem to me to have a huge blindspot, as do those who see them as wicked and greedy. I see them as successful entrepreneurs who have filled a huge need with a marvelous product, but with some minor flaws which should be pointed out and addressed.