Why O why & Why O why???

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  #46  
Old 05-24-2019, 05:52 AM
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Is the Developer making money? Sure he is that's why he's in business.Did he build a GREAT place to live ? Sure he did. They're trying to bring as many new places as they can into TV. As for Golf I don't use it. Pickleball not in many years after I blew the knee out. Rec centers maybe twice a year. Pool when we have company or HOT days and we want to cool off. All these items are here and they are available IF you wish to use them. I know I pay for them BUT I moved here because of what's here IF we wanted to use them. I've made MANY friends here, have great memories & a lot of fun. Coming from Long Island this place is a bargain and in a hell of a lot better condition then what Long Island was and how much money did the Politicians cost us us ? I lost cars and trucks in the pot holes up north. My taxes were more then double, my house is bigger down here, the Community is far superior to Long Island, it's less crowded for sure. That's why we chose to live here, my regret is we didn't do it when we first retired and waited till 2009. That's my story and I'm sticking ti it.
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:14 AM
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When one sees the finished product, in this case, attractive villages, nice homes, and wealth beyond imagination, it's easy for folks to think that it was a simple, easy task to get there, with guaranteed success, and anyone could have done it. Folks who think like this look past the risks involved in land development, and the hard work, and imagination that went into it from the beginning, before money was rolling in, and before success was "guaranteed".
Last winter my golfing group took a trip up to Juliette Falls. I don't know all of the specifics, but there are lots of empty lots up there. In fact we were told that the clubhouse was once a big home that wound up in foreclosure and the golf course management bought it up.
As we drove around the place I thought about how this could have happened to the Morses, but it didn't. Their plan was better, or their execution was better, or something, but, to me it illustrated that their success was not always "guaranteed"...they pulled it off, and not everyone can do that.
Looking at the end product of success and wealth, it's easy for some to feel jealous of someone else's success.
  #48  
Old 05-24-2019, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ColdNoMore View Post
I believe those who have a knee-jerk reaction of attributing any criticism of The Developer to "jealousy"... have it absolutely backward.

Those who defer to, or defend, The Developer on almost everything, regardless of the topic or their actions...are actually the jealous ones.

Many of us who might criticize The Developer on occasion or express our opinion of what we think would make things better, but still love the majority of the things here and is why we choose to continue to live here, seem to instantly become the target of anger by suggesting that everything isn't always absolutely perfect.

It's almost like any criticism of Da Family, is received by some as if it were a direct personal attack...on someone's family member.

Why in the world is that?

Oftentimes, these same people who become so defensive also almost always automatically admire, or put on a pedestal, someone with a lot of money (provided they also meet certain other criteria)... regardless if that wealthy person exhibits honesty, ethics or integrity.

THAT worship of wealth and prosperity... is the "real jealousy."

And I'm not saying the family doesn't have those attributes, because I believe they probably do, but make no mistake as there is an obvious lack of understanding in some people that think The Developer has done everything they've done...due to some kind of altruism or out of the goodness of their hearts.

Hate to break the news to those types, but you are basically worshiping their ability to make money by building what they think will sell, the "extras" that help that selling and other decisions made purely out of a desire to milk every dollar from the development (a % of rent on businesses being an example of squeezing out every dollar).

And they've done a very admirable job of doing that, are reaping their well-earned rewards for such...so more power to them.

It's the American Dream...and they've reached it.

Those with the standard refrain of "you're just jealous of the money they've made" or the old standby "well, if you don't think everything is perfect, or you criticize something, you should just move," really need to take a step back and evaluate themselves...regarding why do you have such a visceral reaction to even the slightest criticism of The Developer?

Because in the final analysis, you personally...don't mean anything to them other than as a customer.

Their primary concern, as it rightfully is for ANY business, is making sure that their new houses (and any old ones that they list) and office/store space are filled by someone...anyone.

Be assured that the vast majority of the people on TOTV who may criticize something they don't like, or would like to change...are certainly NOT coming from a perspective of jealousy.

Any more than criticism of some ultra wealthy, mega-church leader...is coming from a position of jealousy.

It's a fact, that history is replete with examples of those who exhibited blind loyalty to a single person, or company, or organization... whose primary goal was to make money (or gain power).

And a lot of those stories...did not end well.

Very well said. I wish i could have verbalized it so well in a few threads i participated in about 'the golf course conditions" It was if some thought the developer was under a personal attack and needed to be protected by his/her own personal national guard. Again...you've summarized very well...in my opinion
  #49  
Old 05-24-2019, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Love2Swim View Post
I totally disagree. I am financially very well off, and I am not at all jealous of the developer. But I think businesses have certain responsibilities particularly when you create a place for retired people who have sunk much of their savings and uprooted their lives to live in the place you have developed. The developer has created expectations and made promises, and they need to be held accountable. For example, this place is heavily advertised as a golf community, and the overall condition of the golf courses is sub-par. That is inexcusable in my opinion. There are other examples, (I'm thinking of the $40 million class action lawsuit where the Developer mis-used amenity fees) but the point is, the actions of the Developer have been less than stellar in certain situations and residents have a right to be unhappy and need to pay attention so they aren't taken advantage of.

And some of the dog parks in the Villages leave a lot to be desired. Even if The Villages Daily Sun hypes them up quite a bit.
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:49 AM
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Very well said. I wish i could have verbalized it so well in a few threads i participated in about 'the golf course conditions" It was if some thought the developer was under a personal attack and needed to be protected by his/her own personal national guard. Again...you've summarized very well...in my opinion
I think that it takes a while for new people to realize just how this place works. Many of these exchanges are based on getting to know more about just how the systems do function in The Villages and the differences about Florida in general.

Many of these debates or attacks or defenses are caused by whether the reader or writer is a positive or negative person, whether they are realistic in their expectations of most situations, and whether they are truly defining the problem accurately.

That said, some people are very unrealistic in their expectations and are quick to blame the Morse enterprise for just about everything. They expect the Morse enterprise to protect them from sinkholes, and rising costs and things far beyond their control, like the level of health care in Florida. Some truly do not understand the way supply and demand functions and expect an awful lot for not much money and expect businesses to appear because they want them to appear. They are quick to put blame where there is none and continue to recycle rumors and conspiracy theories and say that the price of rent of commercial properties is too high without investigating and comparing like systems in other parts of the country and the world.

There are other people who are too trusting of the developer and their business associates and believe they can do no wrong. There are those who see a great possibility that we could be taken advantage of and gouged and want to have a government system that is entirely run on votes in the traditional way. There are those that see that "the family" is changing roles and strengths and are not the same people with the same jobs that they used to have. They are worried about human frailties and human mistakes by the humans behind the curtain.

It is indeed a problem. And people will continue addressing it as they have done all of the problems before in their life.
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  #51  
Old 05-24-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by skip0358 View Post
Is the Developer making money? Sure he is that's why he's in business.Did he build a GREAT place to live ? Sure he did. They're trying to bring as many new places as they can into TV. As for Golf I don't use it. Pickleball not in many years after I blew the knee out. Rec centers maybe twice a year. Pool when we have company or HOT days and we want to cool off. All these items are here and they are available IF you wish to use them. I know I pay for them BUT I moved here because of what's here IF we wanted to use them. I've made MANY friends here, have great memories & a lot of fun. Coming from Long Island this place is a bargain and in a hell of a lot better condition then what Long Island was and how much money did the Politicians cost us us ? I lost cars and trucks in the pot holes up north. My taxes were more then double, my house is bigger down here, the Community is far superior to Long Island, it's less crowded for sure. That's why we chose to live here, my regret is we didn't do it when we first retired and waited till 2009. That's my story and I'm sticking ti it.
Geezzz, I could have written that.
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  #52  
Old 05-24-2019, 11:12 AM
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It seems to me that the developers have pretty much followed the philosophy of nation builder Lee Kuan Yew who led Singapore through its incredible development. Charlie Munger recently paraphrased Lee Kuan Yew. “Figure out what works and do it.”
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Old 05-24-2019, 03:06 PM
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It seems to me that the developers have pretty much followed the philosophy of nation builder Lee Kuan Yew who led Singapore through its incredible development. Charlie Munger recently paraphrased Lee Kuan Yew. “Figure out what works and do it.”
If that were actual truth, then the "debt of gratitude" would rightly belong to Lee Kuan Yew, not the Morses or Schwartz.

Just sayin...
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Old 05-24-2019, 03:53 PM
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I do find the loyalty expressed by some people idealistic. Yes, TV is a beautiful, a well thought out community. But “The Developer” gets compensated very well for it. I don’t know any of the family personally so do they deserve admiration or loyalty? I don’t know. Mr Schwartz, on the other, my relatives knew him and yes he did deserve respect. He had character.
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
I do find the loyalty expressed by some people idealistic. Yes, TV is a beautiful, a well thought out community. But “The Developer” gets compensated very well for it. I don’t know any of the family personally so do they deserve admiration or loyalty? I don’t know. Mr Schwartz, on the other, my relatives knew him and yes he did deserve respect. He had character.
Mr. Schwartz sounds like the dreamer who had the idea and some of the more practical members of his family but his dream into reality with a lot of luck, hard work, and very probable political connections. You do need the luck though.
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:17 PM
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Actually, my impression was, he was a simple man from a nondescript background. But he did have smarts, and probably luck... and character.
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Old 05-25-2019, 01:32 AM
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It seems to me that the developers have pretty much followed the philosophy of nation builder Lee Kuan Yew who led Singapore through its incredible development. Charlie Munger recently paraphrased Lee Kuan Yew. “Figure out what works and do it.”
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Originally Posted by Jazuela View Post
If that were actual truth, then the "debt of gratitude" would rightly belong to Lee Kuan Yew, not the Morses or Schwartz.

Just sayin...
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Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
I do find the loyalty expressed by some people idealistic. Yes, TV is a beautiful, a well thought out community. But “The Developer” gets compensated very well for it. I don’t know any of the family personally so do they deserve admiration or loyalty? I don’t know. Mr Schwartz, on the other, my relatives knew him and yes he did deserve respect. He had character.
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Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
Mr. Schwartz sounds like the dreamer who had the idea and some of the more practical members of his family but his dream into reality with a lot of luck, hard work, and very probable political connections. You do need the luck though.
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Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
Actually, my impression was, he was a simple man from a nondescript background. But he did have smarts, and probably luck... and character.

If you have the pleasure of speaking to an old-time Villages' employee who worked here when Mr. Schwartz was alive, they will tell you he was a kind and personable man.

He would go to his pool on the historic side and interact with the residents. Employees knew him and he knew them by name. You will probably never hear a negative word about him.

Mr. Schwartz was visible. He was not secluded in an unknown office location somewhere with no contact with the outside Villages world.

Sadly, there no longer is a personal touch here. TV has become too large and the Morse family is concentrating more on development than being visible. The Villages today is a business and is run like one. While we all benefit from all the terrific things which are offered, we are paying for these things which is not unlike living in any other PUD anywhere else.
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Old 05-25-2019, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Midnight Cowgirl View Post
If you have the pleasure of speaking to an old-time Villages' employee who worked here when Mr. Schwartz was alive, they will tell you he was a kind and personable man.

He would go to his pool on the historic side and interact with the residents. Employees knew him and he knew them by name. You will probably never hear a negative word about him.

Mr. Schwartz was visible. He was not secluded in an unknown office location somewhere with no contact with the outside Villages world.

Sadly, there no longer is a personal touch here. TV has become too large and the Morse family is concentrating more on development than being visible. The Villages today is a business and is run like one. While we all benefit from all the terrific things which are offered, we are paying for these things which is not unlike living in any other PUD anywhere else.
Exactly.
  #59  
Old 05-25-2019, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Midnight Cowgirl View Post
If you have the pleasure of speaking to an old-time Villages' employee who worked here when Mr. Schwartz was alive, they will tell you he was a kind and personable man.

He would go to his pool on the historic side and interact with the residents. Employees knew him and he knew them by name. You will probably never hear a negative word about him.

Mr. Schwartz was visible. He was not secluded in an unknown office location somewhere with no contact with the outside Villages world.

Sadly, there no longer is a personal touch here. TV has become too large and the Morse family is concentrating more on development than being visible. The Villages today is a business and is run like one. While we all benefit from all the terrific things which are offered, we are paying for these things which is not unlike living in any other PUD anywhere else.
Those who have studied human behavior seem to agree that some people are outgoing and some people are not.

The Villages is definitely a business. And a successful one. We do choose to live here and pay for the things we enjoy.

Harold Schwartz was a stereotypical salesman. Gary Morse was a good businessman and not in most ways interested in public acclaim.

Now we have some in the next generation who take after Sharon Morse and are more on stage; Megan Boone, her granddaughter from Black List fame and the kids who are running the Sharon too.

Some people who live here have been involved in business in their past and may be more interested to see a good business model succeed. Some who had been educators or who worked for the government and have not been involved with business may not be as interested.

It takes all kinds to make a world. No one is forced, coerced or oversold to live here. Once we are here it grows on some of us more than others.
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Last edited by graciegirl; 05-25-2019 at 10:53 AM.
  #60  
Old 05-27-2019, 05:26 AM
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The negativity is not directed at the Developers/TV. It's directed at the children of the Developers. It is believed by many that the current administration does not have The Villages residents best interests at heart.
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