[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I would agree if vaccines were not widely available but since they are available and have been proven safe and effective, I disagree with being held hostage by the irresponsible. Are we to wear masks forever while one excuse after another is used to avoid being vaccinated?

The last statistics I saw showed that well over 90% of hospitalizations and deaths were unvaccinated individuals. The current surge and current crisis would have been avoided if 100M or so Americans had done the responsible thing and gone for their vaccination. I disagree with mandates and "vaccine passports" but something needs to be done. We can't go on making demands of those who have acted responsibly to solve a problem caused by those who have acted irresponsibly.

I agree with everything you said with one exception........I do agree with vaccine mandates. That is the only way we are going to get control of this pandemic in any way shape or form.

I will not continue to mask to protect those who refuse to protect themselves by refusing the vaccine. Sorry folks. Just NOT going to do it. Anyone who is not vaccinated because of refusal of these life saving vaccines should be slapping an N95 mask over their nose and mouth when out and about in public. Don't expect me to continue to protect your sorry ass.

Anyone who is not vaccinated because they are not able to take the vaccine for what ever reason should also be responsible for their own protection. Just wear an N95 mask when out and about and be done with it.

As an aside..........If you have noticed I'm getting more ornery with anti-vaxxers and hesitant vaxxers, you are very perceptive.

[capecoralbill]

Originally Posted by Penglobal

S

Back in the early 1940's, a majority of German nationals believed that all Jews should be executed. Back in the early 1950's, a majority of Southerners still believed in slavery.
My point, a majority opinion doesn't make it right.

Well stated, and the Darwin theory will eventually prove science, and not political opinion.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

As an aside..........If you have noticed I'm getting more ornery with anti-vaxxers and hesitant vaxxers, you are very perceptive.

And visa-versa I might add

[JSR22]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I agree with everything you said with one exception........I do agree with vaccine mandates. That is the only way we are going to get control of this pandemic in any way shape or form.

I will not continue to mask to protect those who refuse to protect themselves by refusing the vaccine. Sorry folks. Just NOT going to do it. Anyone who is not vaccinated because of refusal of these life saving vaccines should be slapping an N95 mask over their nose and mouth when out and about in public. Don't expect me to continue to protect your sorry ass.

Anyone who is not vaccinated because they are not able to take the vaccine for what ever reason should also be responsible for their own protection. Just wear an N95 mask when out and about and be done with it.

As an aside..........If you have noticed I'm getting more ornery with anti-vaxxers and hesitant vaxxers, you are very perceptive.

Completely agree. I am fully vaccinated and done with masks. If anti vaxxers get sick oh well.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by stanley

And visa-versa I might add

Touché.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by blueash

I completely agree with this post. Masks are not encouraged to be worn to protect the wearer, they are encouraged to prevent spread to others should you be infectious. But understanding that masks, as GE wrote, ARE EFFECTIVE for preventing one infectious person from spreading COVID to many "unvaccinated" people indoors when not socially distanced.. It behooves him and us to consider whether Delta changes the equation.

The data is strongly suggesting that Delta can infect vaccinated people at a much higher rate than previous variations of Covid. Further that while those vaccinated are still extremely well protected against becoming seriously ill, they shed virus at a rate very similar to unvaccinated infectious people.

I think the correct statement with Delta Covid should be that

The usual paper mask is useful for preventing one infected person from spreading COVID to many people, indoors when not socially distanced

That being the case and with Delta being so highly contagious it would be reasonable to require masking. Everyone seeing the data on the prevalence of Delta in Florida, and elsewhere, can see that it is likely some or several persons in the Savannah that night were contagious. It would have been helpful to containment of Delta had they been masked. Masking reduces spread as GE wrote.

All of us expect that workers in a restaurant will wash their hands after defecating. We consider that a public health issue, we have regulations requiring it, and health inspectors looking for compliance regularly. That is done to prevent spread of diseases that are extremely infrequent and of low severity. All the excitement about Hepatitis A and how critical it is to have rules to prevent transmission to the innocent members of the public is reasonable.

But Hepatitis A is a trivial disease compared with Covid both in terms of loss of life and infectious spread. Do all of you who find wearing a mask to protect others such an imposition also support not requiring your server to wash after defecating? After all if you are so afraid of Hepatitis maybe you should just stay home. Maybe we should all be having Hepatitis parties where we all wipe our butts, stick our unwashed fingers in the M&M bowl, and share our viruses to build "natural immunity" which is after all so much better than vaccine immunity or prevention. /s

Maybe we need to take down those signs reminding people to wash their hands. Maybe we should have a statewide ban on enforcing handwashing, make it voluntary. Those who want to wash can, those who don't want to can express their freedom to not wash. Maybe we should only require post-poop handwashing for those unvaccinated against Hep A or lacking natural immunity.

Or instead we can say it doesn't matter if you had your Hep A shots, it doesn't matter if your blood works shows you had Hep A as a child, it doesn't matter if you think you're healthy and not a risk to others.. If you want to work in a restaurant, wash your damn hands to protect the public.

And I'm glad we have those rules. You are too. I've had Hep A vaccine. I'm protected, unless the effect has worn off. But even with my protection, having done all I can to make myself safe while eating out, I still expect that the worker who handles my food is doing what they can to not put Hepatitis on my plate. Reasonable public health and safety rules that people on both sides of the political divide can support. Nobody is screaming "handwash Nazi" about issues to mitigate Hepatitis.

Well said.

But to bring in just another point/analogy

After your (and mine) Hepatitis A vaccines, did either of us get tested for Hep A antigen every other day????? So why are we doing this to athletes/sports teams? Inquiring minds (such as John Rahm and Bryson DeChambeau) want to know!

[jaj523]

Neither does a majority opinion make it wrong!!! Some majority opinions turn out to be right and some turn out to be wrong.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Joe V.

"Both myself and two friends...", ouch, cringe worthy. 'My two friends and I', if you please. Also, you can only be one of yourself.

Your correction is spot on, but why stop there? Almost every TOTV post has grammatical or spelling errors. By the way, cringeworthy is one word.

[chasandvalr]

Originally Posted by Penglobal

Both myself and two friends attended a concert at the Savannah Center Performing Arts Theater in the Villages last night. The Savannah Center is a beautiful venue, everyone working the venue was very nice and polite and the guest appeared to have a great time. Although I have a very positive vibe towards the Savannah Center, I am bit let down that this great venue has declined to enforce social distancing and declined enforcing a mask mandate while its guest are indoors and especially when so many guest are squeezed together in such a tight space.

I was amazed that the venue with approximately 600 guest were tightly squeezed together, sitting next to one another and hardly anyone, except for a handful were wearing protective mask. No one was socially distancing themselves and in my opinion, all the progress made with the declining COVID infection rate will be lost and the rate of COVID infection will rise again.

Since I'm certain this same scenario of not properly protecting ourselves while indoors in public and still many haven't even vaccinated themselves against COVID is occurring throughout our country, I get this bad feeling that come this winter, our country is going back to another lockdown as we haven't learn yet to protect ourselves.

I won't tell you the connection I have to the SC but I will tell you that what you are suggesting was tried and quickly became a nightmare. I won't write you a 10 paragraph explanation about the problems it created with other patrons that disagreed with the seating arrangements, etc. Come see the shows if you want but don't expect the rules other than the mandated guidelines to be followed.