Talk of The Villages Florida

Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Why are the taxpayers, and not the developer, paying for the expansion of the village (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/why-taxpayers-not-developer-paying-expansion-village-298614/)

biker1 10-06-2019 07:27 AM

Nope. FL law requires that tipped employees make at least the FL minimum wage ($8.46 per hour) with tips included. If they don't hit that with tips then the employer is required to make up the difference. FL minimum wage before tips for tipped employees is $5.44 per hour. Depending on where you work you can do much better than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1686558)
Waiters in the Villages restaurants don't earn $10.00/hour. Some of them don't even earn $5/hour before tips. Some, who work mid-shift (not breakfast or lunch, but inbetween) get a total of $7.60/hour AFTER tips.

It's not a liveable wage and using this segment of the population to justify developers not having to pay a greater impact fee "because they bring in workers" is laughable, at best.


eyc234 10-06-2019 08:00 AM

Agree that wages are low and could increase. How this fits with this thread is that just as raising cost for any builder, restaurant or any kind of business will result in higher consumer prices. Business will pass on cost. The public must be willing to accept higher cost and a little pain. You have to look at all the consequences of actions not just a few and determine if society overall is willing to accept the consequences of the actions.

skip0358 10-06-2019 08:32 AM

It is my understanding ( from an earlier post)that when the County gave the green light to continue building it was with the understanding that only if the County ( thus the tax payers) paid for all the road construction and road improvements that were needed. Thus the tax increase. The County probably doing the math with the increase knew they would be paid back big time with the additional tax dollars plus more commercial properties coming in time bringing their tax dollars also. Think it was a win win for both the County & The Developer plus ALL the jobs available to the trades performing the work. JMO

perrjojo 10-06-2019 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1686557)
Yeah this is a kind of ridiculous assumption. Considering her propensity for searching and all previous posts of any given poster just to spew back information they've posted to use against them, she knows darned well I don't want to live in Florida, and she knows why I'm living in Florida anyway.

I HATE Florida. If the Villages was in any other state in the country, then moving to Florida upon retirement would've been a deal-breaker.

I’m sorry you hate Florida and do not live here by choice.

perrjojo 10-06-2019 09:05 AM

There are those who hate the Developer and the VHA. There are those who hate the POA. I think they create a balance in all things TV. Learn from both and draw your own conclusions.

PrudentLifer 10-06-2019 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1686557)
Yeah this is a kind of ridiculous assumption. Considering her propensity for searching and all previous posts of any given poster just to spew back information they've posted to use against them, she knows darned well I don't want to live in Florida, and she knows why I'm living in Florida anyway.



I HATE Florida. If the Villages was in any other state in the country, then moving to Florida upon retirement would've been a deal-breaker.



Is there any state in the south that puts the needs of the worker bee ahead of its plantation owners? Florida is in transition, as a whole, eventually it will flip. But the plantation we live on, The Villages, will not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Velvet 10-06-2019 09:07 AM

Just out of curiosity, how do you think people became billionaires from very little in a couple of generations?

Bogie Shooter 10-06-2019 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1686585)
Just out of curiosity, how do you think people became billionaires from very little in a couple of generations?

I am curious too, what do you think?

Kenswing 10-06-2019 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perrjojo (Post 1686583)
There are those who hate the Developer and the VHA. There are those who hate the POA. I think they create a balance in all things TV. Learn from both and draw your own conclusions.

I take the Olympic scoring approach. Throw out the high and low scores and add up the middle.. lol

eyc234 10-06-2019 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 1686614)
I am curious too, what do you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1686585)
Just out of curiosity, how do you think people became billionaires from very little in a couple of generations?

Ohhhh I do not know, maybe create a product thru innovation, trial and error, find the right niche, exceptional marketing, quality and build on all of these things. Nothing like Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Elan Musk, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, Ross Perot, Mark Zuckerberg or any of the money grubbing millionaires/billionaires that have made their money in less than one generation. The only people who have benefitted from any of their companies was them. :icon_wink::icon_wink:

Velvet 10-06-2019 11:38 AM

The strategy seems to be working quite well.

Advogado 10-06-2019 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perrjojo (Post 1686583)
There are those who hate the Developer and the VHA. There are those who hate the POA. I think they create a balance in all things TV. Learn from both and draw your own conclusions.

I would not have a major problem with the Villages Homeowners Advocates if it would just change its name to: Villages-Developer Advocates. Its silence on the Developer's offloading his infrastructure costs on Sumter County taxpayers is deafening.

PrudentLifer 10-06-2019 12:47 PM

Personally, I don't care if my taxes go up 300 bucks. Life sucks ya know. My challenge is timing this just right so I unload my house near it's peak, then move to an area which won't be as sensitive to the impending baby buster price decline. At that point I'll kick back. Too many people are getting their panties in a ruffle about a few bucks a year. Think how you'll feel down the road living in the worlds largest retirement shanty town. Not this guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jellybeanrt 10-06-2019 01:37 PM

As we do not have a Mayor in the Villages, can someone tell me how we can have commissioners in the Villages. ?

PrudentLifer 10-06-2019 01:38 PM

Why are the taxpayers, and not the developer, paying for the expansion of the village
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jellybeanrt (Post 1686654)
As we do not have a Mayor in the Villages, can someone tell me how we can have commissioners in the Villages. ?



Village Community Development Districts

Sumter County, FL - Official Website | Official Website

"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

CWGUY 10-06-2019 03:46 PM

:ohdear: As I posted before "They have nothing to worry about.... their jobs are safe!" :popcorn:

I mean think about it..... how do you vote out a commissioner if you don't know you have one? :shrug:

OrangeBlossomBaby 10-06-2019 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skip0358 (Post 1686572)
It is my understanding ( from an earlier post)that when the County gave the green light to continue building it was with the understanding that only if the County ( thus the tax payers) paid for all the road construction and road improvements that were needed. Thus the tax increase. The County probably doing the math with the increase knew they would be paid back big time with the additional tax dollars plus more commercial properties coming in time bringing their tax dollars also. Think it was a win win for both the County & The Developer plus ALL the jobs available to the trades performing the work. JMO

...and when the work is done, ALL of those people performing the work will be out of work, and collecting unemployment, and not paying taxes at all. Income tax? Nope. Property tax? Nope, they'll rent, so no property tax at all. Seasonal people don't buy homes in the places they are hired to perform seasonal work. They rent, and pay zero property taxes.

Wavy Chips 10-06-2019 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skip0358 (Post 1686572)
It is my understanding ( from an earlier post)that when the County gave the green light to continue building it was with the understanding that only if the County ( thus the tax payers) paid for all the road construction and road improvements that were needed. Thus the tax increase. The County probably doing the math with the increase knew they would be paid back big time with the additional tax dollars plus more commercial properties coming in time bringing their tax dollars also. Think it was a win win for both the County & The Developer plus ALL the jobs available to the trades performing the work. JMO

The developer bluffed the county and won. If the county said no to paying for the roads/improvements, do you really think they would have walked away from the project? Hardly, they would have still moved forward, albeit maybe with the same or altered plan. I give the developer credit. They took a shot and won. Sumpter county has weak, unsophisticated commissioners and the taxpayers are paying the price.

JoMar 10-06-2019 08:14 PM

Yawn

Polar Bear 10-06-2019 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1686726)
Yawn

Finally. A spot-on post that sums up this thread perfectly. :)

manaboutown 10-06-2019 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavy Chips (Post 1686725)
The developer bluffed the county and won. If the county said no to paying for the roads/improvements, do you really think they would have walked away from the project? Hardly, they would have still moved forward, albeit maybe with the same or altered plan. I give the developer credit. They took a shot and won. Sumpter county has weak, unsophisticated commissioners and the taxpayers are paying the price.

Or commissioners affiliated with the developer...

Advogado 10-06-2019 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavy Chips (Post 1686725)
The developer bluffed the county and won. If the county said no to paying for the roads/improvements, do you really think they would have walked away from the project? Hardly, they would have still moved forward, albeit maybe with the same or altered plan. I give the developer credit. They took a shot and won. Sumpter county has weak, unsophisticated commissioners and the taxpayers are paying the price.

When you have your own guys on the Commission, there is no need to bluff.

I think you misunderstand what happened. County Commissions are of crucial importance to any developer doing business in any county, and The Villages Developer has taken control of the Sumter County one--to his benefit and the detriment of Sumter County taxpayers.

skyking 10-06-2019 10:11 PM

Being from Ohio I had never heard of impact fees. Doing a little research I found that they were declared illegal in 2012 by the state Supreme Court and considered a tax which had not been submitted to a vote. Roads and other infrastructure expenditures are paid for through realestate taxes as is done in Sumter County..

skip0358 10-06-2019 10:41 PM

I never said the workers doing the construction. All I said was they were working which means their spending money while working which is good for whatever county or wherever they are living. Food. Beverages gas oil electric etc are being bought and will be for a good many years. There is NOTHING that can be done to stop what’s started at this point. Just pay the bill and hope for the best for next years tax bill. The county won higher taxes, more roads, more houses, hopefully more businesses moving in which means more commercial property and more jobs for those looking for work

Fredster 10-07-2019 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrudentLifer (Post 1686584)
Is there any state in the south that puts the needs of the worker bee ahead of its plantation owners? Florida is in transition, as a whole, eventually it will flip. But the plantation we live on, The Villages, will not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I sure hope The Villages won’t become like a lot of cities up north in my lifetime!

Advogado 10-07-2019 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyking (Post 1686750)
Being from Ohio I had never heard of impact fees. Doing a little research I found that they were declared illegal in 2012 by the state Supreme Court and considered a tax which had not been submitted to a vote. Roads and other infrastructure expenditures are paid for through realestate taxes as is done in Sumter County..

In Florida, Impact fees are alive and well. Go to the website of any county, and you’ll see what they are in that county.

JP 10-07-2019 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1686726)
Yawn

I agree and how about wah wah. Blah blah blah

PrudentLifer 10-07-2019 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredster (Post 1686770)
I sure hope The Villages won’t become like a lot of cities up north in my lifetime!



It won't. The family overseers will make sure of that.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

RosemarySoso 10-07-2019 08:28 AM

Sounds like the Florida AG should take a look.

Fast Freddy 10-07-2019 09:19 AM

AG
 
Be pro-Active, contact them!

Altavia 10-07-2019 10:48 AM

Do some developments that have impact fees also have Bonds?

njbchbum 10-07-2019 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1686713)
...and when the work is done, ALL of those people performing the work will be out of work, and collecting unemployment, and not paying taxes at all. Income tax? Nope. Property tax? Nope, they'll rent, so no property tax at all. Seasonal people don't buy homes in the places they are hired to perform seasonal work. They rent, and pay zero property taxes.

Well someone who buys those new houses will be paying the property taxes! And if they are smart landlords part of the rent that is charged will include and be set aside for payment of those property taxes for which they will be liable! No? And those renters will be contributing to the local economy. No? And unemployed workers - will they not just move on to the next area of development unless they have been able to establish roots in the area? It seems that there are many assumptions in the quoted post - no?

Goldwingnut 10-07-2019 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1686713)
...and when the work is done, ALL of those people performing the work will be out of work, and collecting unemployment, and not paying taxes at all. Income tax? Nope. Property tax? Nope, they'll rent, so no property tax at all. Seasonal people don't buy homes in the places they are hired to perform seasonal work. They rent, and pay zero property taxes.

The work won't be done for at least another 20 years, the workers know it and are pretty happy about the situation, job stability. I've spoken to many of the workers while out flying, some have been working with The Villages 15-20 years and love the job security that is here. And that's just the work that is foreseeable based on the land purchases that have been announced. One can be sure that there is more to come after that as long as the economy stays at least semi-stable and people keep growing older and want to retire.

And to think it all started with a trailer park and a dream...

PrudentLifer 10-07-2019 11:50 AM

Why are the taxpayers, and not the developer, paying for the expansion of the village
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 1686937)
The work won't be done for at least another 20 years, the workers know it and are pretty happy about the situation, job stability. I've spoken to many of the workers while out flying, some have been working with The Villages 15-20 years and love the job security that is here. And that's just the work that is foreseeable based on the land purchases that have been announced. One can be sure that there is more to come after that as long as the economy stays at least semi-stable and people keep growing older and want to retire.

And to think it all started with a trailer park and a dream...



Not sustainable

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7da7446368.jpg

Other variables such as the decimation of defined benefit plans, overall lower real wages, student loans etc. the Gen X's and Millenials, plus the current surge of returning to living in cities as a choice will weigh heavily on future retirement community construction. Here, much less age diversity within the "walls" than every other large housing area in the USA makes it much more vulnerable to the demographic swing.

I see a three year window of riding the price appreciation wave. IMHO


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

Goldwingnut 10-07-2019 12:46 PM

I guess I'm not as much of a pessimist as some.

While I may question of the thinking and actions of many of the Gen X and Millennials, many more have proven themselves quite resourcefully and levelheaded looking towards the future. While the BPK has taken a dip from time to time, the population has continued to have a net increase and will continue to for the foreseeable future, helping to ensure a continued market as word continues to spread about the many positive aspects of this community.

ColdNoMore 10-07-2019 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrudentLifer (Post 1686940)


Immigration will make up the downturn in births, so that future 'old folks' will be supported by younger people working...just as we're being supported by them now.

PrudentLifer 10-07-2019 04:38 PM

Why are the taxpayers, and not the developer, paying for the expansion of the village
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1687030)

Immigration will make up the downturn in births, so that future 'old folks' will be supported by younger people working...just as we're being supported by them now.



Good point and yes I understand that when it comes to shoring up our SS system. What is fuzzy is how much immigration will add to the over 65 ranks over the next 20 years.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

superbat1 10-07-2019 05:25 PM

Population in 1940 was 132 million now it is 329 million. The birth rate is down per 1000 but with so many more people the total births per year is about the same.

OrangeBlossomBaby 10-07-2019 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skip0358 (Post 1686572)
It is my understanding ( from an earlier post)that when the County gave the green light to continue building it was with the understanding that only if the County ( thus the tax payers) paid for all the road construction and road improvements that were needed. Thus the tax increase. The County probably doing the math with the increase knew they would be paid back big time with the additional tax dollars plus more commercial properties coming in time bringing their tax dollars also. Think it was a win win for both the County & The Developer plus ALL the jobs available to the trades performing the work. JMO

Quote:

Originally Posted by skip0358 (Post 1686753)
I never said the workers doing the construction. All I said was they were working which means their spending money while working which is good for whatever county or wherever they are living. Food. Beverages gas oil electric etc are being bought and will be for a good many years. There is NOTHING that can be done to stop what’s started at this point. Just pay the bill and hope for the best for next years tax bill. The county won higher taxes, more roads, more houses, hopefully more businesses moving in which means more commercial property and more jobs for those looking for work

The people performing the work for the developer, during the developer's planned projects, will cease to perform that work when the projects are completed. The projects are - construction. Whether engineers, roofers, carpet-layers, or whatever else - they will not have those jobs once the jobs are completed.

My point - is that these people won't be contributing tax dollars after the work is done. Their contributions are temporary. That is WHY developers typically have to pay higher fees than the fee the Villages developers are paying, to build each house. Because any other contributions to the town that would typically cover the costs of the increased population using up all those town services, are temporary.

You bring in workers to build buildings, that some of them will live in, and they will rely on more buildings being built, so that they can continue to afford to live in the buildings their boss built. It's basically a snake eating its own tail. Eventually - it will be fully consumed.

Kenswing 10-07-2019 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1687074)
The people performing the work for the developer, during the developer's planned projects, will cease to perform that work when the projects are completed. The projects are - construction. Whether engineers, roofers, carpet-layers, or whatever else - they will not have those jobs once the jobs are completed.

My point - is that these people won't be contributing tax dollars after the work is done. Their contributions are temporary. That is WHY developers typically have to pay higher fees than the fee the Villages developers are paying, to build each house. Because any other contributions to the town that would typically cover the costs of the increased population using up all those town services, are temporary.

You bring in workers to build buildings, that some of them will live in, and they will rely on more buildings being built, so that they can continue to afford to live in the buildings their boss built. It's basically a snake eating its own tail. Eventually - it will be fully consumed.

With the acquisition of somewhere in the neighborhood of 26,000 acres the snake just got a whole lot longer. I think it'll be eating for a long time to come.. lol


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