Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1685574)

"Yes there is a debate of what Cities, Counties, States & Federal Governments should pay vs. private industries. Incentives are part of tax base growth at all levels. The only way to truly impact incentives are proactively, not after the fact."


To claim that incentives were necessary to entice the Developer to expand The Villages is absurd.

Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1685573)

If anything, anything at all, that I have written in this thread is incorrect, please call it to my attention and I will remedy the error.

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1685568)

ToTV (or at least this thread) is divided much like our country.


5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme left with conspiracies, greed & corruption. 5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme right with supporting the developer. Both sides very vocal.


With the vast majority in the middle observing "the wings" and many times being turned off by both.


The happy supporters, support after the fact. The unhappy residents & non-residents complain after the fact.




I'm a supporter of the developer, of the free market, of business success in general. Am I in the 5% (or 10%) right wingers as defined above........not sure, don't care.


There really shouldn't be much surprise here in Sumter County at the increase in taxes. If it's 10%, 20% or 30%.....it was coming. "You could see it coming" with no tax increases in over 10 years. If you didn't, shame on you.


Yes there is a debate of what Cities, Counties, States & Federal Governments should pay vs. private industries. Incentives are part of tax base growth at all levels. The only way to truly impact incentives are proactively, not after the fact.


There is much more Sumter County land out there to be developed. If change is needed, comments on this forum will not get it done.




Have a good day.

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1685568)

ToTV (or at least this thread) is divided much like our country.


5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme left with conspiracies, greed & corruption. 5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme right with supporting the developer. Both sides very vocal.


With the vast majority in the middle observing "the wings" and many times being turned off by both.


The happy supporters, support after the fact. The unhappy residents & non-residents complain after the fact.



I'm a supporter of the developer, of the free market, of business success in general. Am I in the 5% (or 10%) right wingers as defined above........not sure, don't care.



Have a good day.

Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1684911)

I am going to start with a riddle: How can 5 guys screw 125,000 people--- Now I mean screw financially, not physically?

The answer to the riddle: Five guys can do this by getting elected to the Sumter County Board of Commissioners, with the support of the Developer and then financially screwing everybody in Sumter County-- except the Developer and the Developer's cronies. More specifically, these 5 guys are screwing Sumter County taxpayers by giving the Developer a sweetheart deal on IMPACT FEES, thereby offloading the costs of The Villages expansion on to Sumter County taxpayers and saving the Developer an incredible amount of money. That is what we saw happening on the evening of September 25 when the Developer toadies serving as County Commissioners screwed the Sumter County taxpayers with a 25% tax increase in order to benefit the Commissioners' patron, the Developer. You have evidence not supposition or opinion that there is a deal between the developer and the commissioners?

Remember the Developer put the County Commissioners in office via his “One Sumter” 2004 legislation; his campaign contributions; his propaganda organ, The Villages Daily Sun; and his promotion of directors and presidents from his front organization, the so-called Villages Homeowners Advocates (the VHA), to political office. So the people in the county did not vote of a free will to put these citizens into the positions they hold?

Until recently, I didn't know what an impact fee was. Now I do--no thanks to the September 24th front-page article in The Developer' Daily Sun, which purported to explain property taxes, but never mentions impact fees. According to Sumter County's own website: “An impact fee is a one time charge applied to new construction. The purpose of the fee is to fund capital projects for roads (such as construction, land acquisition, [sic]). Impact fees can be charges for parks, schools, jails, ambulances and other infrastructure needs that may occur due to new development.” An impact fee is paid by the builder of a new house when he gets his building permit.

If you are on a County Commission, and you want to do a favor for the guy who put you in office and that guy is a big developer, you set a REAL LOW impact fee. To put what's going on here in perspective, let's look at Collier County. In Collier County, where the Developer doesn't have the County Commissioners in his pocket, the builder of a house in a retirement community pays an impact fee of about $20,000 per house. Again you are implying that there is an illegal deal going on, do you have proof and then call the authorities to investigate. If you have no proof of a brokered deal then it is not the truth.

In Sumter County, the Developer pays an impact fee of $901 per house. I repeat $901 or about $19,000 per house less than he would pay if he built in Collier County. Stated differently the Developer is paying an impact fee of less than 5% of what he would pay in Collier County.

This sweetheart deal in Sumter County has been in place for years. Who has been making up for the lost county revenue, i.e., who has been making a gift to the Developer? We have, through higher county taxes. Pretty easy on this one the third word says you are accusing of an illegal activity, do you have proof this exist. If not it is false.

Now the chickens have now REALLY come home to roost. The Villages is massively expanding, which is necessitating a corresponding massive expansion in roads and other infrastructure. 60,000 new houses times $19,000 per house (i.e., the difference between the Sumter County and Collier County impact-fee rates) means that the Developer will be paying impact fees of One Billion, One Hundred Forty Million Dollars less than he would pay in Collier County. BUT rather than increasing the Developer's low impact fees to cover the cost of the infrastructure expansion, the County Commissioners are increasing OUR taxes by 25%. (Incidentally, the One Billion, One Hundred Forty Million Dollar figure doesn't include the amount of the gift that the Developer has already received with respect to houses already built.) The Developer is certainly getting a good return on his campaign contributions-- at our expense.

The Daily Sun cites $348 as a typical tax increase. So remember, when you pay your taxes, you are essentially writing a check to the Developer for $348 (or whatever your actual tax increase is.)

Please mark your 2020 calendars on August 18 (the date of the Republican primary) and on November 3 (the date of the general election) as follows: VOTE OUT BUTLER, BURGESS, AND PRINTZ.

LET'S CLEAN UP SUMTER COUNTY GOVERNMENT

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 1685632)

I am also a strong supporter of capitalism, the free markets, and business success in general. It is what has made our country great, and what made my career a success. I am also about as far to the right as you will ever find when it comes to fiscal responsibility. However, those beliefs don't make me a blind supporter of the developer, that has to be earned.

Going back about 3 years or longer, I was about as strong a supporter of the developer as ANYONE who regularly posts on TOV. The Villages run under the guidance of Gary Morse, and his father Harold Schwartz before him, earned my almost unconditional trust. In my opinion, they build the greatest retirement community in the world and were keenly focused on making it the best place possible for the residents. This business model worked great and resulted in both happy residents and very good profits for the developers.

About five years ago Gary Morse passed away and the next generation of the family took over operations. During the first couple of years after Gary's departure I opserved little to no change in the developers business model. However, over time, in my opinion, the new generation has begun to change the business model. Profit maximization seems to have leapfrogged resident happiness on their priority list. The tax increase discussed at nausium in this thread is the most obvious example of this. The new generation of the developers family has managed to eroded my almost unconditional trust. I sincerely hope this trend does not continue.

Please don't get me wrong, I still believe the Villages is the greatest retirement community in the world and wouldn't want to sell my home and relocate elsewhere. Even if the new generation of developers continues to operate under their revised business model, it will most likely take them my remaining life expectancy to whipe out the resident lifestyle advantage over other retirement communities that Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse created.

Originally Posted by eyc234 (Post 1685645)

:coolsmiley: I will be glad to do that. See below.





Again I do not see the developer or commissioners as being perfect or infallible. However this should not be a forum to pass innuendos, half truths, slanders or non provable facts.

Originally Posted by njbchbum (Post 1685617)

Where has ANY poster "claimed" that incentives were necessary for the Developer or that the Developer even sought them out? How much pressure is put on the Developer to bring more new housing/retail units into a local community in order to boost their tax base?

Originally Posted by FenneyFanatic (Post 1685658)

Am I the only one on here who is tired or negativity, anti-developer sentiment and overall grouchiness??

Originally Posted by eyc234 (Post 1685645)

:coolsmiley: I will be glad to do that. See below.





Again I do not see the developer or commissioners as being perfect or infallible. However this should not be a forum to pass innuendos, half truths, slanders or non provable facts.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1685662)

I am tired of it. I will be eighty in November and my health is not as vibrant as when I first arrived more than a dozen years ago. I think my senses aren't as good but I feel in some ways I can see though people better than ever.

I have nothing to gain. I don't know the Morses, a half brother lives down the street but I have never spoken to him directly even though I have been in the same place during three gatherings.. I know corporations don't have hearts, but families do have ethics.

I am betting that the Morses will continue to keep this wonderful place nice and to employ people and make money for themselves and keep the economy here stable.

I am so blessed that I am known to many people personally, who I am sure see me as an annoying old lady with too much time at the computer, but some still like me.

I have no ax to grind. Wait. Yes I do. I want to keep this place nice and the values of our property high too. I am old but I am not stupid.