Originally Posted by John41 (Post 1971626)

Non-citizens constitute only about 7 percent of the U.S. population. Yet the latest data from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reveals that non-citizens accounted for nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of all federal arrests in 2018. Just two decades earlier, only 37 percent of all federal arrests were non-citizens.

Originally Posted by Art cov (Post 1971636)

Another problem is the border crossing is used by people from terrorist countries skipping across into our country. So they will do their activities here. Maybe with conditions in Haiti, our government will allow 2 million Haitians into Florida to save them from chaos in their country. If they allowed Haitians to live in our counties, we would then be able to understand how border cities in Texas feel. Remember it’s not the Sunday school classes that are coming, some are criminals,

Originally Posted by Art cov (Post 1971644)

DHS don’t even know, maybe ten percent. I’m sure they would take care of their own and have a more sophisticated way of getting their people picked up. The war on terror seems to be a joke when the border is wide open. Iranians, Syrians are crossing over also nearly 100 countries we are told were representative at the border. Without a border enforcement, we will have no country. We will wake up one day and say (what has happened )

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1971537)

Well, you are both right.

The law specifically allows for anyone that reaches American soil to request asylum and they are supposed to be given a court date to determine if they can stay. So, the court date is to determine if they can stay legally. But, until the court date, they are technically here "legally" applying for asylum.going on, and "they" tried rounding them up and deporting them with disastrous results.

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 1971543)

Aren't you legal until proven to be illegal? Isn't it the same concept as being innocent until proven guilty? Entering the country illegally is a violation of the law. If you have a court date, then the Government is accusing you of being here illegally.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1971545)

Well, that would take a lawyer to answer and is semantics. One could argue that as long as they obey the court order while waiting for a hearing they are obeying the law, and so are not here "illegally".

But, calling them illegals makes it so much easier to hate them.

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1971551)

There is no DISCUSSION at all.....simply calling names. If we do not begin to TALK with each other, with brain engaged, and political coups aside, there will be no solution. I had some hope a few years ago about some bi partisan legislation, but they was shelved to the loud “build the wall” chants.

To the OP.....to what end is a scrolling of “illegal” immigrants ?

We desperately need immigrants or our children conomy will suffer. Let’s. Stop chanting and begin to talk about it, with a goal of at least beginning legislation.

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin (Post 1971599)

What's your criteria for illegal? Asylum seekers have a right to cross borders to seek asylum.

Have any of the illegals taken away your job as a crop picker? Maybe we can get an accurate count there, but then who would pick the crops?

According to American Natives, there are about 330 million illegals.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1971577)

I disagree with you. It is NOT against the law for a person seeking asylum to enter the US. The law specially provides for that.

And if in fact so many unvaccinated immigrants are coming in - why not use up those stores of vaccines we have because so many don't want them?

And what has trying to protect school children got to do with illegal or legal immigration?

Originally Posted by Dana1963 (Post 1971581)

How many EMPLOYERS hiring illegal immigrants are actually criminally prosecuted.
Until that stops there will be an endless stream this also includes people from Europe that overstay their visas!

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1971585)

Here is a brief summary of the economic impacts: (It is a very complex subject with lots of opportunities to come to false conclusions.)

A review of the academic literature by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that "over the past few decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."

While the overall fiscal impact on the US is beneficial, unauthorized immigrants have an adverse impact on the budgets of some state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:

"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs"

"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a SMALL percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions"

"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants",

and

"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."

The IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. (Think about it - they are "illegal" and file income tax returns...)

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.

Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay about $7 BILLION per year into Social Security.(Which they will never get back in the form of SS payments)

In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 BILLION to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used.

So, what's the next crime? I can provide reports from law enforcement around the country that the undocumented populations in their cities and countries have LOWER crime rates than citizens. The explanation seems to be they are trying to maintain a low profile so they don't get deported.

We can keep going round and round - we have been doing it since the 1930's - or we could try to find solutions that both sides can benefit from. But, then what would the Politicians use to keep us mad at each other.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1971587)

No, it is NOT. Jeez.

Read the law, it is NOT illegal for a person seeking asylum to cross the border and turn themselves in.

Yes, I agree not ALL undocumented aliens are seeking asylum, and yes, I agree some of the ones claiming to are just trying to game the system.

But, if a person from another country places a foot on American Soil they can turn themselves in and ask for asylum - LEGALLY.

Saying it is illegal over and over does not make it so.

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin (Post 1971599)

What's your criteria for illegal? Asylum seekers have a right to cross borders to seek asylum.

Have any of the illegals taken away your job as a crop picker? Maybe we can get an accurate count there, but then who would pick the crops?

According to American Natives, there are about 330 million illegals.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1971612)

Seriously?

I offer the law. Blah blah, blah - very mature response. So, the law is important until YOU don't like it, then it becomes blah blah blah?

EDITED: I apologize. My reply to you was inappropriate. I would very much like to hear what you have to contribute!

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 1971662)

Saying it's legal to cross the Rio Grande and claim asylum is legal does not make it so...

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1971668)

“You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United States. extraordinary circumstances relating to your delay in filing.”

Questions and Answers: Asylum Eligibility and Applications | USCIS

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 1971662)

Saying it's legal to cross the Rio Grande and claim asylum is legal does not make it so...

Originally Posted by Tblue (Post 1971487)

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 1971678)

That says nothing about entering ILLEGALLY... Once you have done that, you've committed a crime...

Originally Posted by coralway (Post 1971572)

How about you post how much $$ they pay in taxes every year? I will bet you a person who works in the fields all day pays more in taxes than most elected government officials, past and present.

They can live next door to me any day.

Get off your high horse.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1971585)

Here is a brief summary of the economic impacts: (It is a very complex subject with lots of opportunities to come to false conclusions.)

A review of the academic literature by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that "over the past few decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."

While the overall fiscal impact on the US is beneficial, unauthorized immigrants have an adverse impact on the budgets of some state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:

"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs"

"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a SMALL percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions"

"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants",

and

"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."

The IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. (Think about it - they are "illegal" and file income tax returns...)

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.

Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay about $7 BILLION per year into Social Security.(Which they will never get back in the form of SS payments)

In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 BILLION to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used.

So, what's the next crime? I can provide reports from law enforcement around the country that the undocumented populations in their cities and countries have LOWER crime rates than citizens. The explanation seems to be they are trying to maintain a low profile so they don't get deported.

We can keep going round and round - we have been doing it since the 1930's - or we could try to find solutions that both sides can benefit from. But, then what would the Politicians use to keep us mad at each other.

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 1971679)

No, but the Government enforces the law, and determines who can stay and who needs to leave. So, if the Government apprehends someone, not at a designated point of entry, gives them a court date, and releases them into the country, don't they become a "de facto" legal resident? The Government is allowing these people to enter the country and live here until they go to court. It seems to me that they are legal residents at least until the court date. Also, I believe, in some cases, they are not even given a specific court date, but just allowed to enter the country.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1971537)

Well, you are both right.

The law specifically allows for anyone that reaches American soil to request asylum and they are supposed to be given a court date to determine if they can stay. So, the court date is to determine if they can stay legally. But, until the court date, they are technically here "legally" applying for asylum.

The court system is completely broken and can take 2 to 3 years (or longer) to hear the case. So, the court has to option to lock them up and pay incarceration fees or let them lose (hall pass) until the case can be seen.

IF politicians wanted to solve the "illegal immigrant" problem on the border the first and obvious step would be to fix the court system so the person/people seeking asylum would have their case heard the same day or within days.

I am pretty sure we will NEVER see a solution, it is way too juicy a topic for politicians to run on for or against. So, they will never solve it, simply keep it around to help stir up the base (both sides.)

And if you think this is new, try again, in the 1930s the exact same things were going on, and "they" tried rounding them up and deporting them with disastrous results.

Originally Posted by John41 (Post 1971626)

Non-citizens constitute only about 7 percent of the U.S. population. Yet the latest data from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reveals that non-citizens accounted for nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of all federal arrests in 2018. Just two decades earlier, only 37 percent of all federal arrests were non-citizens.

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1971551)

There is no DISCUSSION at all.....simply calling names. If we do not begin to TALK with each other, with brain engaged, and political coups aside, there will be no solution. I had some hope a few years ago about some bi partisan legislation, but they was shelved to the loud “build the wall” chants.

To the OP.....to what end is a scrolling of “illegal” immigrants ?

We desperately need immigrants or our children conomy will suffer. Let’s. Stop chanting and begin to talk about it, with a goal of at least beginning legislation.